Norm4eva
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« on: July 22, 2005, 12:37:01 pm » |
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Still ISO the only non-metagame White Weenie critter. Let me preface this by saying that I'm genuinely interested in making a balanced card that would unquestionably find a home in any given white weenie deck. The starting point need not echo the end point but I'm trying to explore the needs of the design space and fill them in a fashion that is both in-color and not reliant on metagame calls. I'm a pretty hardcore WW fan and if there's one thing that I can't stand about the deck it's the creature base being almost completely based on the meta, while decks like Madness and Goblins have tried and true standards. One of my favorite design aspects about Magic is the opposing colors actually sharing traits. I've discussed it in detail before; Black and Green share rapid growth, whether permanent Llanowar Elves or temporary Dark Ritual. Blue and Green share domination, be it through huge beasts or tempo. Red and White share prowess in battle, sharing first strike as well as strength in numbers. Black and White share oppression, White through law and Black through attrition. With this in mind, the proposed card is a blatent rip with a twist. The greatest weakness and strength of all WW decks is their incredibly strong 2-drops. It provides the deck with both efficient beaters and rule-enforcing creatures but it does so in standard 2-drop fashion; one.. at.. a.. time. If White represents the military, the law, the righteous oppressors seeking to end chaos, they sure do it in small numbers. Does a Suntail Hawk and a Silver Knight really constitute a holy crusade against the forces of darkness? Meh! So. In typical "me" fashion I've tried to find an "off-color on-color ability" and paste it on a White card, with what I feel are appropriate provisions.
King's Recruiter W
Creature - Human Soldier
Whenever -this- deals combat damage to a player, you may put a white creature card with power 3 or less from your hand into play.
1/1
So the off-color yet on-color Goblin Lackey is the design base of choice, and the reasoning is pretty straightforward; the ability to summon reinforcements is militaristic and appropriate for a color that deals with doling out rule and punishment. Being able to drop a True Believer alongside a Silver Knight on the second turn very quickly establishes the rules. Cutting off the ability at both white creatures and those with power 3 or less prevents second turn Exalted/Akroma nuttiness and keeps the flavor of recruiting footsoldiers instead of giant beaters. About the fattest ass this guy can drop (before things like triggered abilities are considered, stupid Konda) is Noble Templar, a 3/6 vigilant plainscycler. So does this card match my intended criteria? Is there a better execution that I hadn't considered?
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2005, 12:37:47 pm » |
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Current wording: King's Recruiter W
Creature - Human Soldier
Whenever -this- deals combat damage to a player, you may put a white creature card with converted mana cost 2 or less from your hand into play.
The royal army always hired local heroes to do their recruiting. Young men were eager to fight after seeing their idols victorious in battle.
1/1
EDIT: Changed p/t requirement to 2 or less. Added Ephraim's flavor text. EDIT: Changed p/t requirement to CMC requirement of 2 or less.
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« Last Edit: July 30, 2005, 06:46:39 pm by Norm4eva »
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Matt
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King of the Jews!
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2005, 01:09:40 pm » |
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3 is kind of big, that's getting into large griffins or small angels, which aren't really 'weenies' nor do they seem like those who would be serving at the whim of a king. Power 2 or less would be fine.
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Shadow-Walker
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2005, 03:15:55 pm » |
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Converted mana cost instead of power maybe?
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2005, 10:02:56 pm » |
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Well I'd as soon change the name than lower the p/t to satisfy the name's flavor. There's a number of non-Soldier/Knight/Cleric cards with power < 3. A king wouldn't probably have much sway over a Hipparion, or a Riptide Crab, but they'd still come down. And the "fat-ass" thing doesn't go away with lower power; even at a requirement nerf of "1 or less" we still have things like Kami of Old Stone, a 1/7 behemoth that serves only to chump until it finds Umezawa's Jitte. So if it's the name that's causing the issue let's brainstorm but if it's a real issue of pumping out too much fat then I can conceed to changing it.
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Matt
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2005, 12:01:20 am » |
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No, it's the power level too. But it's a good name, don't throw it out. This is why it's generally a terrible idea to try and create cards specifically for preexisting constructed decks, it never works out.
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2005, 10:44:57 am » |
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I can understand that point. Power requirement changed. This card needs flavor text. Mine usually blows, who's game?
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Ephraim
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2005, 12:00:04 pm » |
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Flavour text suggestion:
The royal army always hired local heroes to do their recruiting. Young men were eager to fight after seeing their idols victorious in battle.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2005, 04:59:11 pm » |
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Nice. Added your flavor text. This has only been up for a day so I won't clock it yet but I don't anticipate much more can be done with this one. I'll let it sit unless there's a real qualm about its function.
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dandan
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2005, 12:40:59 pm » |
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I like this and think it is more in flavour for White than Red. I also think CC would be more sensible (dropping a 2/5 or the like would be bad news, I'm fairly sure there are some meaty 2/X White cards [including Legends]).
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Shadow-Walker
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2005, 03:14:44 pm » |
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I also think CC would be more sensible (dropping a 2/5 or the like would be bad news, I'm fairly sure there are some meaty 2/X White cards [including Legends]). My thought was this+Hokori. CMC seems easier to balance.
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2005, 07:35:51 pm » |
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Converted mana cost is exactly what this card's attempting to skirt. Yeah, White gets weenie creatures with crazy abilities. Problem is they don't come out fast enough. Being able to drop Horoki on turn 2 is good, sure, but are you going to maindeck 4 Legendary cards on the hope that the opponent doesn't scorch King's Recruiter? Honestly, at power 2 or less the craziest stuff you can drop is free Meddling Mages, or Voice of All, or a few random 2/6s. With a few minor exceptions that aren't usually worth maindecking in an aggro-control deck, the kind of critters you can drop via King's Recruiter under the current wording just give it more game against other aggro decks, which the deck already has and does better right now anyway. No one's going to be taking out Soltari Priest for anything like a 2/5 with "bands with others". If it were worthwhile to run Horoki they'd do it already. It might be bad in Standard if they drop like... Blinding Angel... but what does T&N care? It just drops Platz + Abunas and wins because Platz > swinging for the win. Plus your mulligan rate would go through the roof if you ran a bunch of bad White cards that you hope to Recruiter out. To compare this guy to Goblin Lackey; are there honestly any cards in a decent Goblin deck that are only playd because of Lackey? Even if I hardcast Siege-Gang Commander it'll probably help me win the game because I just cast not one creature but FOUR. There's no white card that comes close to SGC, especially with power less than 3.
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Matt
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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2005, 09:48:47 pm » |
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I guess this is as good a time as any to note that SGC is overpowered. Red isn't supposed to get 5/5s for five, much less one with an ability, much less a goblin (which is also an anility by this point, and worth at least a half-mana).
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2005, 09:09:08 am » |
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Yeah, that's kinda the point. If there's genuinely a white creature that has a power of 2 and would be as busted as SGC then I can try to rework my card but I really, really don't think there is. Especially not one worth wrecking the curve over.
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dandan
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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2005, 09:35:34 am » |
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The point is that if you made it Max CMC=2, you basically get WW whever this deals damage (or WU in the case of Meddling Mage). That is a very good ability for a W cc creature.
However if you make this 2 Power, you are saying that WW pseudo-mana generation isn't enough, you want the option of WW1 or WW2 or even more.
Here are some examples of 2 Power cards:
Academy Rector Auriok Salvagers Blinding Angel Daru Warchief Enlistment Officer Hand of Justice Hokori Karmic Guide Kiyomaro (X=0 right?) Serra Avatar 1996 World Champion Captain Sisay
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« Last Edit: July 29, 2005, 09:39:12 am by dandan »
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2005, 02:42:58 pm » |
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Oh. Kiyomaro and Serra Avatar might be a problem. :P Yeah, I can fix that.
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dandan
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« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2005, 05:53:40 pm » |
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Trust me, decks running Rectors or Salvagers are more dangerous than ones with Serra Avatars......
In any case, you've done the right thing and made a strong but not wrong card. This card would be a contender for the prized one drop slot in any WW.
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Matt
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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2005, 07:10:15 pm » |
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1996 World Champion Don't make me clap my hands at you!
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dandan
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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2005, 07:19:38 am » |
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If you allow proxies, some wise guy would have tried it!!
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« Last Edit: August 04, 2005, 12:50:24 am by dandan »
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Norm4eva
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« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2005, 09:40:05 am » |
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Cards encased in glass are fucking TECH. Barrin g anymore talk of 1996 World Champ, 24 hour clock.
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LordHomerCat
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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2005, 11:07:08 am » |
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What about the turn 2 Serra Avatar thing? That seems rather powerful for a 1 casting cost creature (and remember Lackey was banned in ext. once the released some good goblins, and SGC was only a 5/5, not a 20/20). I personally like the CC restriction more.
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Team Meandeck Team Serious LordHomerCat is just mean, and isnt really justifying his statements very well, is he?
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2005, 01:03:14 pm » |
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It already has the CMC restriction.
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LordHomerCat
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« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2005, 01:07:31 pm » |
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Oops, sorry, I somehow misinterpreted the current wording thing (thought it was still power). Seems ok then to me =]
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Team Meandeck Team Serious LordHomerCat is just mean, and isnt really justifying his statements very well, is he?
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Matt
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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2005, 10:55:13 am » |
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Closed and added[/color]
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF---------------------- SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar ---------------------- noitcelfeRmaeT {Team Hindsight}
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