Which Slaver version is the better version?

[islanderboi10]

Which version of Slaver is the best? The CruciSlaver or the Regular CS? I've seen lists, regular CS has been doing well, But the CruciSlaver has been T8ing and such lately. CruciSlaver has been doing really well lately, but CS is really good. Which version do you think is the best? Why? Which Meta do you think the each slaver version shines in??

[Komatteru]

I haven't seen Slaver all that much as of late (in T8s or in tournaments), and it certainly hasn't been Crucible Slaver when I have.  If you're referring to Intuition Slaver, it has been established that Intuition Slaver is utterly horrid.  Like, we're talking terrible.  "Shay Slaver" (the one with black for Will, but no Duress these days) is infinitely better.

I don't really have much to say other than that, but Slaver with Intuition is just atrociously bad.  My only rationale is "it just is."  You're forcing the deck to do something it really doesn't want to do, which is never good.  Your combo match goes from "eh" to bad, which is really bad now with the rise of Meandeck Gifts (its a combo deck a lot more than it is a control deck, the natural evolution of TPS), and your Fish match probably isn't too hot either.  You're just better off focusing on what Slaver wants to do, and not worry about tricks with Strip Mine or Darksteel Citadel.

[islanderboi10]

I'm talking about the Slaver that uses the Crucible of Worlds, Artifact Land, Welder, Slver lock. It took first at the last SCG. And I just read like 3 CS reports, 1 of them had took liked 2nd. It was the Crucible Slaver lock.

[Revvik]

Bringer of the White Dawn / Mindslaver.
Hot.

The version without the Crucible lock is the better version - why focus on a clumsy infinite lock when once will get the job done?

[kl0wn]

If you're referring to Intuition Slaver, it has been established that Intuition Slaver is utterly horrid.  Like, we're talking terrible.  "Shay Slaver" (the one with black for Will, but no Duress these days) is infinitely better.

I thought "Shay Slaver" ran Intuition. Am I missing something? Or are you confused? I might just have the old version in mind.

[Kowal]

Shay experimented with Intuition and found a build that he decided was acceptable, but was not optimal.  Lists dubbed "shay slaver" don't run intuition.

[Luiggi]

You're forcing the deck to do something it really doesn't want to do, which is never good

So you're saying that Slaver doesn't want to draw a boatload of cards from Intuition+AK or tutor up artifacts to Weld in, ?

Luiggi

[JDawg13]

Precisely.  Intuition/AK takes up like 7 slots in your maindeck which is far more than CS can afford to use on it's draw engine.  The fact that it allows you to tutor up artifacts is pretty negligible, as CS doesn't usually need to do so.  CS wants to go into the late game, and by that time you should have been able to find an artifact to weld in by playing Thirsts.  There's just really no need to play Intuition when the deck runs quite well without it.

[The Atog Lord]

So you're saying that Slaver doesn't want to draw a boatload of cards from Intuition+AK or tutor up artifacts to Weld in

That is true. It doesn't.

Check Star City's archives for my articles for a lot more information. This discussion has been done to death on TMD already. In short, the Intuition/AK engine is very slow and moreover takes up a lot of space in the maindeck, space that Slaver can't really afford to lose. If you must play with Intuiton, you're better off with the space-saving Intuition/Deep engine, also found in my articles on Star City.

If you're looking for a recent list of mine, here is my list from the 40 Dual Land tournament:

2 Island
1 Library Of Alexandria
2 Snow Covered Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy

1 Triskelion
1 Pentavus
4 Goblin Welder
1 Darksteel Colossus

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mysical Tutor
1 Vamp Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Echoing Truth
4 Mana Drain
1 Mindslaver
4 Thrist for Knowledge
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
4 Force of Will

Side Board
1 Lava Dart
1 Boseiju,Who Shelters All
2 Blood Moon
2 Tormond's Crypt
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Chaice of the Void
3 Pyroclasm

Now I'd run a Tormod's Crypt instead of the Top, to combat the Gifts decks that are gaining popularity.

[Luiggi]

I think the debate of Shay-style CS vs. Goth Slaver has been beaten to death in plenty of other topics, so there's really no need to get into that again. I just felt like being a little facetious, .

EDIT: Rich posted while I was writing this. Just to clarify, I was just messing around. I realize that traditional CS has done better lately and is the generally accepted "best" version of the deck.

Luiggi

[GothRock]

Hey guys. I have recently started playing T1, and CS has caught my attention. I have looked up the lists and tried playing it on MWS but it doesnt really seem to break to me. I do get the obvious parts, though, like Welder and Slaver etc. Can anyone tell me how it works, what it does to stall, how it deals with certain cards etc? Any help would be appreciated.

[Luiggi]

Here are some good articles on the deck that came out on StarCity in the past year or so:

- "A Slaver for You", by Matthieu Durand: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/8339.html

- "Training Wheels - A Reflection on the Use of the Intuition/AK Draw Engine in Control Slaver", by Rich Shay: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/8941.html

- "A Closer Look at Slaver in Vintage", by Steve Menendian: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/9061.html (Premium)

- "Spinning the Wheels – A Reflection on Optimizing Intuition Slaver", by Rich Shay: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/9352.html

There's also been loads of discussion here on TMD, so just run a search and start reading those threads, .

Luiggi