TMD OPEN 7: 10/15/05->10/16/05, Waterbury,CT

[Jacob Orlove]

I'd definitely vote for the current play/draw and paris mulligan rules, because they make the game fairer and reduce the amount of luck involved. Paris mulligans in particular add a ton of skill to the game, while simultaneously saving players from autolosses to unplayable, unmulliganable hands.


Here's Chaos Orb's official Oracle wording, plus notes:

Chaos Orb
2   
Artifact   
1, T: If Chaos Orb is in play, flip Chaos Orb onto the playing area from a height of at least one foot. If Chaos Orb turns over completely at least once during the flip, destroy all permanents it touches. Then destroy Chaos Orb. 


    * Oct 4, 2004 - Can only affect cards that are in play. Cards that are in the game but not in play, such as those in the Library and Graveyard, can't be affected.
    * Oct 4, 2004 - You can arrange your cards any time before the Orb is put into play, but not after. In general, you should not stack cards or put them in places where your opponent can't read the names of all of them or count them. This is recommended good gaming practice.
    * Oct 4, 2004 - Cards it lands on refers to cards it touches once it stops moving.
    * Oct 4, 2004 - It must flip 360 degrees (that's what "flip entirely" means). And this flip must be in the air and not in your hand.
    * Oct 4, 2004 - This is a not a targeted ability.
    * Oct 4, 2004 - If you have sleeves on cards, they count as the cards.
    * Oct 4, 2004 - You can't interfere in any physical way with the playing of this card.

[Hi-Val]

What about all land/no land mulligans? Manabases were terrible back then.

[Jacob Orlove]

I'd definitely vote for the current play/draw and paris mulligan rules, because they make the game fairer and reduce the amount of luck involved. Paris mulligans in particular add a ton of skill to the game, while simultaneously saving players from autolosses to unplayable, unmulliganable hands.

Emphasis mine. ;)

[kirdape3]

Please Please PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

Don't let Balance in as a 4-of.  Vise is really good and powerful and all, but Balance is utterly fucking ridiculous.  The format is literally Balance mirrors.  To make it more fair, don't let Balance exist.  Please.  I would <3 this format more than I <3 anything in existence if I didn't have to play around Balance twice or three times a game.

-----END PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT--------

Now.  Without Balance in the fray, this format is crazy fun.  Menendian is like OMG I GET TO PLAY JUZAM DJINN over here, and all sorts of ancient platinum hits show up.  I was yes, running Kird Apes.

Also, there should be a notice that no physical cards from sets later than Chronicles are allowed.  There's no way in hell it's cool to be playing a Judgment Ernham Djinn in a format that's 11 years old already.

[Jacob Orlove]

Also, there should be a notice that no physical cards from sets later than Chronicles are allowed.  There's no way in hell it's cool to be playing a Judgment Ernham Djinn in a format that's 11 years old already.

On that note, my proxies will be on revised cards with the same color and casting cost (eg random 3 mana artifact becomes Forcefield). I'm not using any card that might conceivably get played, though.

[Dante]

I agree that the old rules are literally unusable, but I think we could make just that one change without having to give up on the current rules system. Just change 420.5a (A player with 0 or less life loses the game.) to "A player with 0 or less life loses the game if it is the beginning of a phase." That way, you have until the end of the current phase (beginning, 1st main, attack, 2nd main, end) to get back above 0 life, and you lose as soon as both players pass priority and the game moves to the next phase. We'd have to advertise it beforehand, but no one is going to just show up with a deck legal for this format--everyone who is going to play will have read the announcement by then.

Also be forewarned that Chaos Orbs will be there...  We should have the erratas on hand when people try to spread there cards out when it's announced.  That's a big no no.

The only other rule that still up in the air where we play are the Play or Draw/ and No/All Land mulligan vs Paris rules.

Yah, you should clarify if Chaos Orb will actually flip (and if so how/what you can do beforehand about spreading where you place things) OR if you just want to errata it to say "1, tap, sacrifice Chaos Orb: Destroy target permanent".

[iamfishman]

Oh...no...you gotta flip it.

By the time this tournament runs on Day 2, it will be quite calm compared to the earthquake of the day before.  I will likely be walking by the tables as this event is going on...I can be summoned whenever a chaos orb is flipped to make sure all is on the up and up.

[MuzzonoAmi]

Can we please use 5th Edition Rules? They honestly aren't that complicated.

[iamfishman]

Yes, maybe to you, and me, and other people who played back then.

But they aren't so easy to explain and layout to others...there lies the problem.

[orgcandman]

I still shudder thinking about the interrupt batch system.

Bad counterspell, bad!

It was even worse when you could do freaky infinate mana / 0 life things. I had a b/g drain life deck that used ley druid, paralyse, and wild growths (later added lotus vales w00t) to drain life for the win. Case in point: 5th edition rules don't make sense.

[Jacob Orlove]

They honestly aren't that complicated.

Oh yes they are: http://www.crystalkeep.com/magic/rules/fifth/rule-general.txt

Here are some highlights:

  A.8.Ruling.1 - Because triggered abilities are played using the normal
    life cycle rules (see Rule T.3), triggered abilities can become nested.
    For example, if one spell's resolution caused two triggered abilities to
    trigger, then during the resolution of the first one of these triggered
    abilities, another effect is triggered.  The newly triggered ability is
    resolved prior to going back and resolving the second of the original
    pair of triggered abilities. [Duelist Magazine #14, Page 26]

  G.12.1 - Spells and abilities which prevent damage can only be played
    during a Damage Prevention Step (see Rule T.10). [Fifth Edition, Page 52]

T.3 - Life Cycle of Spells and Abilities
  T.3.1 - The life cycle for a spell or ability can be charted out like this:
    1. Announcement -- Costs are paid.  Targets are chosen.  Choices are made.
    2. Interrupt Period -- A chance is given to use interrupts to counter
       or modify the spell or ability.  Mana sources do not have this step.
    3. Waiting for resolution -- When a spell or ability gets to this stage,
       it is considered successfully "played", "cast" or "activated".
       It is placed in a batch.  If it is being played in a Series (see
       Rule T.9), the spell or ability cannot be responded to.  Mana sources
       do not have this step.
    4. Resolution -- Check targets at this time.  If a spell or ability's
       targets are valid, then its effects take place, otherwise it "fizzles".
       If in a batch, resolve in last-in-first-out manner.

[iamfishman]

I guess its time for another announcement.

On day 1, after Magic Scattegories(approximately 10:00 pm) there will be an attempt at a large sized type 4 torunament.  The prize will be an entire type 4 stack.

That's correct.  Crazy Carl Winter, now in an attempt to make an all foil/pimped type 4 stack is offering up his original type 4 stack as a prize to the winner of said event.  Carl and I originally agreed to make this a free tournament, however, I thought that due to Carl's generosity(that stack is at least $100 worth of card), he should get something in return.  As such, I hope when he reads this he is not offended but the entry fee will be a card from the list of cards Carl still currently needs (see http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=24105.0) or a meager $1 to help him buy some cards he needs.  This will not completely foil his stack, but I figure it is the least we can do for his generosity.

The tournament will go like this.  We will divide all those playing(i'm hoping we can get like 25-30 or so) into pods of 5 or 6, with the winner from each pod playing in a final table.  Both the first round tables and final table will draft from a random type 4 stack(so people...bring your stacks with you) and the placement will also be random.  We will play by a standardized set of house rules agreed upon ahead of time.  Further rules questions will be handled by myself.  Strict use of passing priority around the table will be encouraged.  Last man standing is the type 4 champ of Waterbury.

Any questions?  I'm sure there will be.

Next annoucnement: Team Competition

[CrazyCarl]

Aw, thanks   I'm picking up a bunch of stuff atm (shout out to JACO), but Ravnica will be out soon...

I may also need to ask for donations of some of the random commons/uncommons that I'm having difficulty finding.  I'll write up the list for it over the next week or so and see what I need.  This should be an awesome event

[iamfishman]

Final announcement for now...

Team rivalry, a.k.a. Braggin Rights Supreme 2005

Here is how its gonna go down.  Teams of three will agree prior to the event to play as a team and will register(seperate from a deck registration...it will be done on a different sheet of paper).  Each teams cost is $9...$3 per person.  Then, at the end of the tournament, the teams with the highest combined number of match points(top 16 matches-finals count as 3 points per match, just as in the swiss) will win. 

If enough teams enter, there may be a second place prizes or more, but the number of teams entering, and thus the collected entry fees, will determine the prizes.  In the event of a tie for match points, the average opponent match win percentage of the three players on each team will be computed and compared. 

I will be trying to figure out a way to represent on the pairings sheet for each round what players are members of what teams, so teams may view each other team's progress.

So...who's in? Chime in with some trash talking

[Kowal]

I would seriously consider entering as a team of one if the points were a ratio and not a sum.

[Smmenen]

Final announcement for now...

Team rivalry, a.k.a. Braggin Rights Supreme 2005

Here is how its gonna go down.  Teams of three will agree prior to the event to play as a team and will register(seperate from a deck registration...it will be done on a different sheet of paper).  Each teams cost is $9...$3 per person.  Then, at the end of the tournament, the teams with the highest combined number of match points(top 16 matches-finals count as 3 points per match, just as in the swiss) will win. 

If enough teams enter, there may be a second place prizes or more, but the number of teams entering, and thus the collected entry fees, will determine the prizes.  In the event of a tie for match points, the average opponent match win percentage of the three players on each team will be computed and compared. 

I will be trying to figure out a way to represent on the pairings sheet for each round what players are members of what teams, so teams may view each other team's progress.

So...who's in? Chime in with some trash talking

That's a great idea. That is for the main event, right?  And the $3 per person is additional, right?

[Methuselahn]

Team rivalry, a.k.a. Braggin Rights Supreme 2005

Yes, great idea!  Question; How many teams can a person buy into?

[TJ-Whoopy]

I don't see how any trash talking can commence there is only one team left in vintage and none of you stand a chance against us

I suppose as we are so numerous we'll be competing against each other.

[Vegeta2711]

I don't see how any trash talking can commence there is only one team left in vintage and none of you stand a chance against us

I suppose as we are so large we'll be competing against our selves

Who needs to trashtalk when you guys insult yourselves. :/

[nataz]

I am the spokesman, and deliver you a message.

Beware a new Team in Vintage.

Formed under a dark convent beneath a new moon, its members known only by their secret call signs whispered in dark corners across the inter-web.

Although our true identities and "cover" team affiliations still remain secret,  we have chosen this moment to reveal our existence.

(thundercats)Hear our cry,(Thundercats) hear our call,(THUNDERCATS) and bow your heads in fear(HOOOO). We will crush our enemies, push them down the stairs, and hear the lamentations of your mom.
 

Team Thundercats!: We Have ALL the Pussy*


*yes, even your mom

[iamfishman]

@ Smmenen

It is in fact for the main event.  And the $3 is in addition to the cost.

@ Meth.

I don't see any reason why a person can't be part of more than one team.  If anyone sees a reason why this wouldn't work, feel free to chime in though.

[lizzish]

I just heard from Steve over the phone that the box with all of Ray's power, including the prizes for this, was stolen. Did anyone else get this news?


Oh, I hope it isn't true.

[Kowal]

I got the news as well.  It's very upsetting.

[Kowal]

Update!  In regards to the above.

[M.Solymossy]

Hey Kowal.  How much does it normally cost you to travel from where you are To chicago?  I'm gathering up about 4 or 5 other people to drive/fly from Milwaukee to Waterbury to Reprisent Team ICBM....

[Grand Inquisitor]

Kowal

I laughed my ass off, what a fuckin' hero.

all of Ray's power

What is the scoop, primary source info anyone?

I don't see any reason why a person can't be part of more than one team

I can't see how it's possible to have it be a fair competition with people on more than one team.  It allows people to hedge towards a bunch of decent people finding a combination of top scores.  It also is sort of against the spirit of actually having teams butting heads.

[Kowal]

I misinterpreted the story, I guess Windfall was actually the one who saved Waterbury.  But I don't have a good movie coverish image of Windfall, so we have to make due with BrassMan.

Also, going to Chicago costs roughly 200 bucks for a round trip ticket, plus accomodations and food.  Driving actually costs more now, because gas is so expensive.

[Dante]

I misinterpreted the story, I guess Windfall was actually the one who saved Waterbury.  But I don't have a good movie coverish image of Windfall, so we have to make due with BrassMan.

Also, going to Chicago costs roughly 200 bucks for a round trip ticket, plus accomodations and food.  Driving actually costs more now, because gas is so expensive.

well, if you just have 1 or 2, but if you're splitting things 5 ways, driving should still be cheaper - it's hard to split one airline ticket 5 ways...

[Kowal]

Putting five people in a car for that long usually requires a van, though I agree vanning the journey would be substantially cheaper than 5 plane tickets.  That said, the drive is hell.  I plan on flying if I make it to the next Chicago event.

[TJ-Whoopy]

Anyone have info about waterbury lodgings?