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Author Topic: Dragon's Evolution  (Read 1192 times)
Twan
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tc9114
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« on: July 30, 2005, 07:35:10 pm »

I saw the last post in this forum about Dragon was about 1 year ago so I thought I would dust off an old chestnut.
With over 400 new cards now, we must look at the Worldgorger Dragon deck and see what can be done about it. What should be dropped? Should it still be BU or BUG? We'll find out.

First off raises the question of the colors that run in it. Should we run BU or BUG? I believe this is one of the most important aspects. In my opinion Xantid Swarm CAN used to be a replacement for FoW but only for budget decks. I'd rather run FoW any day. Especially since we KNOW blue will be run, and green is iffy. Then again though, what should the minimum amount of cards be run for FoW? At least 15 I believe. Out of a 60 card deck you should have 1-2 blue cards on the opening draw on average, so I believe that is plenty for FoW.

Dragon is my favorite deck but I'm not an experienced T1 player. Perhaps other experienced players would like to contribute to this?
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cssamerican
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2005, 08:50:37 pm »

BUG Dragon
by cssamerican

Creatures 
1   Eternal Witness   
1   Sliver Queen   
4   Squee, Goblin Nabob   
4   Worldgorger Dragon   
3   Xantid Swarm   

Spells 
1   Ancestral Recall   
1   Echoing Truth   
4   Force of Will   
3   Intuition   
3   Lim-Dul's Vault   
1   Time Walk   

Enchantments 
4   Animate Dead   
3   Compulsion   
3   Necromancy   

Artifacts 
1   Black Lotus   
1   Mana Crypt   
1   Mox Emerald   
1   Mox Jet   
1   Mox Pearl   
1   Mox Ruby   
1   Mox Sapphire   

Lands 
4   Bazaar of Baghdad   
1   Island
4   Polluted Delta
1   Swamp
3   Tropical Island
4   Underground Sea

It has 17 blue cards so it is pretty easy to support Force of Will. I have seen a lot of variations of this list, some run Duress instead of Force of Will, others drop green all together and run Duress and Force of Will. I actually think that this type of Dragon Deck first appeared publicaly at a Gencon event by Dicemanx and Shock Wave, but I could be wrong on that history, so don't quote me Smile

Then you have Dicemanx's 5cDragon. Which is quite good if you don't have any problems running with no basic lands. By the way I think it's also fair to say Dicemanx is TMD reseident expert on Dragon decks, so it would be nice if he chimes in on this discussion. It is qute possible that he has made some adjutments to his 5 color list.

Then there is the simple, barebone, ball to the walls approach to Dragon which is basially mono-black with a splash. I recently posted a version in this forum that I toyed around with dubbed Psycho Dragon

As you can see there isn't a whole lot going on with Dragon's development, but then again there isn't a whole lot of people paying it either. Hope that kinda helps.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2005, 08:52:12 pm by cssamerican » Logged

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oldbsturgeon
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2005, 09:00:28 pm »

i think that the green is necessary for dragon to be able to get the combo off without trouble. with regards to the evolution of the deck i think that dragon may have evolved into the hybrid that is cerebral assassin. while i know that it is not really dragon but it does have many similarities while having a stronger game against cards like counters and STP. the threat density is a bit higher than in pure dragon. But back to dragon, with regards to the BUG list I believe that is pretty much the way to go, however where the sliver queen is, i replaced it with triskelion, which seemed to work out well for me.
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Twan
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tc9114
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« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2005, 11:01:16 pm »

This build here just won top 8 at the SCG Chicago:
Seems ok. I don't think it runs enough animate spells. This doesn't seem too good of a version but hey it made top 8 so I may be wrong.

4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Kumano, Master Yamabushi
1 Ambassador Laquatus
4 Force of Will
3 Duress
3 Intuition
3 Stifle
2 Deep Analysis
2 Animate Dead
2 Necromancy
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Entomb
1 Careful Study
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
1 Island
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oldbsturgeon
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« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2005, 11:36:09 pm »

wow props for dragon going all the way. i agree too few animates and laquatus should go, but if it won, thats all that matters.
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andrewpate
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2005, 02:31:30 am »

CSS, your build is okay, but I dislike relying on Sliver Queen as the main kill.  I think that the best setup is Eternal Witness, Sliver Queen, and Kumano, along with Cunning Wish in place of Lim-Dul's Vault.  This allows for kills by the traditional self-mill and switch to Kumano or Sliver Queen (broken up by Witness if needed), a self-mill and switch to Witness for Wish for Stroke, and a combo-out with no Bazaar but a Wish in hand and then Wish for Stroke either on the opponent or for your whole library, after which you break your own combo with Wish for Blue Elemental Blast and then hardcast Kumano.  This setup allows for the greatest number of possible kills with the fewest maindeck slots dedicated to dead-draw victory conditions (really just 3 slots, since the Wishes also get Naturalize, Rebuild, etc. in the course of normal play).  I think that the 5-color versus 3-color question is valid (my team is currently going 5-color), but running just Sliver Queen is ludicrous.
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oldbsturgeon
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2005, 08:27:58 am »

so i have tried cunning wish and i find it difficult to play and a waste to draw until you actually need it. i was at one time playing and dicemanx put me in my place on why it is bad. what tends to happen is that i have to play force and i have no other blue spell but wish, so guess what gets removed, wish. that left me with only 1 more.
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cssamerican
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2005, 09:11:23 am »

CSS, your build is okay, but I dislike relying on Sliver Queen as the main kill.  I think that the best setup is Eternal Witness, Sliver Queen, and Kumano, along with Cunning Wish in place of Lim-Dul's Vault.  This allows for kills by the traditional self-mill and switch to Kumano or Sliver Queen (broken up by Witness if needed), a self-mill and switch to Witness for Wish for Stroke, and a combo-out with no Bazaar but a Wish in hand and then Wish for Stroke either on the opponent or for your whole library, after which you break your own combo with Wish for Blue Elemental Blast and then hardcast Kumano.  This setup allows for the greatest number of possible kills with the fewest maindeck slots dedicated to dead-draw victory conditions (really just 3 slots, since the Wishes also get Naturalize, Rebuild, etc. in the course of normal play).  I think that the 5-color versus 3-color question is valid (my team is currently going 5-color), but running just Sliver Queen is ludicrous.
Where to begin? Hmm...Did you notice that I am running Eternal Witness? If you did than how can you say I am relying on Sliver Queen? I have no problems pitching Sliver Queen to Force of Will in various match-ups because I still have access to the Ancestral Recall Kill.

Lim-Dul's Vault is awesome in Dragon. It can usually assemble the entire combo, and it helps support the deck's blue count for Force of Will. It is the one card in the deck that I think makes Dragon so consistent, I just can't see why you wouldn't use it.

Cunning Wish doesn't seem that effective of a card in Dragon to me. The idea that you can go off with Cunning Wish without the need for Bazaar of Baghdad is great, but how often are you not going to have either Bazaar of Baghdad, Compulsion, or Intuition? That is ten cards that let you combo out that turn in the scenario you are describing, so I am not sure if that is that important of a factor. Also in your example you would have to spend {3}{U}{G} to remove a nasty enchantment like Ground Seal. Which in itself isn't horrible, but if there wasn't anything nasty to remove you would have a card in hand that can't assemble your needed combo parts. If Cunning Wish didn't remove itself from the game I would probably have a different opinion of it, or I would at least rethink it. But as it stands now if you use it to remove something or if you use it to grab a Vampiric Tutor, you can't use it to win later on. When it comes to handling problem permanents game one I rather just use Lim-Dul's Vault and search for Echoing Truth. It cost me {1}{U}{U}{B} which in most cases is easier to achieve. (This is mainly because the double blue is usually spread over two turns so it really isn't an issue, and {B} is more readily available to you than {G}) And in the cases where there isn't anything I need to remove I can use Lim-Dul's Vault to assemble the combo pieces I need. And remember your maindeck is for game one. In game one you always need to assemble your combo, but how often to you need to fight through permanent based hate? I think the way you have to approach this is, assembling the combo drastically out weighs fighting hate game one, and if it doesn't play another deck.
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In war it doesn't really matter who is right, the only thing that matters is who is left.
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