Secret Force II

[NWI Team_Zilla]

Police hq, maybe you should read a tourny report on foodchain goblins, because if you plan to out race goblins using a verdant force, you are mistaken.
And how is running Pantom Nishoba running a non-budget build, all Natural Order decks are budget, because if they weren't we would be playing better decks, wouldn't we?
Talk to someone who plays a powered version of FCG and ask what turn they win the game, the come back and give some reasoning why Verdant Force is going to stop the onslaught ok?

[policehq]

I never said either of these were especially good decks...

Food Chain Goblins is too red-mana hungry to run off-color Moxen.

I was stating that I used a powered deck because I knew people wouldn't believe that a turn 2 Natural Order is common with either of the other decks.

Several Food Chain Goblin players have scooped after a couple of upkeeps with Verdant Force in play, in testing. Not everyone plays with the narrow Goblin Sharpshooter, which against a lot of decks is a 1/1 that doesn't untap for 3cc.

[NWI Team_Zilla]

Umm, actually I haven't seen a list yet that doesn't run at least 1 Sharpshooter, FCG has 8 ways to get to it, so why wouldn't they?
And I suppose that a 2nd turn Natural Order could probably beat goblins, but that is an unlikely possibility, even if you are running Moxen/Lotus/Crypt/ESG...It's highly unlikely that you will ever go off faster than a FCG deck.

[jackpot]

If you're worried about being swarmed by FCG then maybe Spikewever could help. Another Verdant Force alternate is Sekki, seasons guide. Not much besides Swords To plowshares can get rid of this guy. Phantom nishoba is a safe bet as well.

[TimeWizzle]

as an additional way to get your one-ofs, wouldn't survival be useful in this deck?  seems like it may be as good/better than the vamp/DT in addition to being on color.

[NWI Team_Zilla]

The point of the deck is to get to 1 of the 4 Natural Order's, you have no interest in the creatures by themselves, and thus no interest in Survival of the Fittest.

[jackpot]

Hold on a minute, Survival and Natural order is a savage beating. I've seen masticore survivaled up for some nasty results with all that elf mana floating around. Other ideas are survivaling up fatties so you can drop them with that green myojin dude. You'd have to hard cast it, so that may not be the best plan. hmmm probably living wish for masticore or I don't know, ukatabi would be good. You could also go grab a cradle, stripmine, etc. Yes, I think that's a better idea than survival.

[NWI Team_Zilla]

Yea, but I think the real questions is not "how good would it be in this deck?" as much as it is "would we really want to devote slots to such a plan and how much better would that plan be?"
I don't think that survival would make this deck any better, unless, you switch to a survival deck, like TnT, or something along those lines, a mono green deck just can't use and abuse  Survival nearly as effectively as Tnt or other workshop aggro builds would.  So what I'm trying to say is, if you want to play SotF, play the deck that best abuses it, but mono green cannot abuse it to great enough extent to put it in.

[tradewhore]

I know it is farfetched, but have you considered Defense of The Heart as an option gainst fast paced creature decks.