Question's about Oath

[Draven]

Hello all. I have been playtesting Oath for a little bit, but before I get to my questions I will give you a little bit of my Vintage background. I started off playing "The Deck" which evolved into Keeper and then 4CC. After my days of control, I tired some combo consisting of Doomsday, Salvagers and Gifts. Lately I have been trying out Tog.

What I have noticed is alot of those decks need to work really hard to win. Tog spends alot of time and resources setting up a big win.

Oath, it seems, casts one spell and protects the hell out of it for the next few turns.

The question I have is is this an accuarte thought about Oath? What are the interactions that really make Oath hard to play against? I know bounce spells are rough, and obviously disenchant effects, but it seems Oath runs way enough counter/protection to handle that.

I haven't really played against Oath, and the few matches I have, I won because of bad draws. Game one I didn't even know he was playing Oath and the others was just terrible luck on their part.

I know there alot of good players out there who have experience with Oath, so if anyone has any advice on the play style of Oath, things to watch outfor, etc. I am not looking for a decklist, just discussion about Oath.

Danka!

[Moxlotus]

There are 2 ways to build Oath.

1 way is to do whatever you can to find your oath, and then have a shitload of ways to protect it.  This is usually a control based Oath.  This version usually uses Mana Drains and possibly Mana Leaks also.

The other is to blow your load to actually find your Oath, and then do whatever you can to protect it.  This is usually a more aggro-control style of Oath.  This deck is the beatdown.  This version usually has Duress, black tutors, and a full complement of Wastes.

[andrewpate]

There is one other way to build Oath, which is the combo method.  You run Duress, tutors, draw 7s, etc., hoping to drop and activate Oath of Druids within the first two turns at almost any cost.  Oath then gives either Eternal Witness retrieving Yawgmoth's Will for a Storm win or Auriok Salvagers to go infinite with Black Lotus/Lion's Eye Diamond.  These decks are basically another way to build TPS, but most builds pack a transformational sideboard with Darksteel Colossus or Akroma/Spirit of the Night.  These tend, while less interactive, to be more difficult to play and certainly don't rely on resolving Oath as much (I frequently win with Witness Oath via a simple TPS kill).

[the boogie man]

oath is extremely powerful, but the only problems it has is the weak point, which happens to be orchard, and you can't cut that.

[crazzykid81083]

ive been playtesting oath for a while now and the aggro version seems to do the best with the current meta game. But as for orchard being a downfall I dont think so and I would argue that till the end of time I think it actually brought something broken to the deck. Yes it has the give your opponent a little shit token but also fills four land spots trigers the oath and it cut having to run verdant touch so you could run 4 other impotant cards like
crop rotation- love this card in the deck also for many reasons
duress-finally room without cutting away at the build
tutors-never have to many
will-BROKEN
There's just so many possibilities out there now but dont forget dont build a version you cant understand you cant win with it if you cant play it

[prosbloom225]

Orchard is the reason the deck actually sees play.  Without that games 2 and 3 you just wouldnt have to play a creature to beat oath.  Besides you can respond to waste by tapping and taking burn.  All you gotta do is protect the hell outa oath and get one creature on the other side.

[the boogie man]

you guys aren't understanding what I'm saying. yes, orchard allows for wicked pimp plays and interaction with stuff like oath, but stand-alone it is the weakest card in the deck.

[prosbloom225]

It never will be by itself.  And no, oath is the weakest card in the deck by itself.  Your opponent can just choose not to play a creature, and you lose.

[the boogie man]

how do you mean " the oponent can just choose not to play a creature and you lose?" that is the worst argument ever. as long as they don't play a creature, the more time you have to locate an orchard and win. if they do play a creature, you win most likely. unless they counter your orchard.

[prosbloom225]

I was saying without the orchard in the deck, all the opponent has to do is not play a creature.  Of course, some oath decks actually will eventually have the mana to hardcast, but thats besides the point.

[crazzykid81083]

Theres alot of reasons for the orchard look at landstill tada they never have a creature on you up-keep and if they mage there calling oath of druids not the orchard. Keepers gonna keep sitting back setting up the win getting more and more mana eventually you try and set up the win condition they mana drain everything and cast decree time walk and will and GAME OVER. Orchard gave the deck more outs better playability and its not like gemstone mine or city in the deck its far better.Like i said in the post abover the versions ive seen run alot ran 3-4 verdant touches and 4-gemstone mine or city of brass now you have a land that doesnt kill itself doesnt ping you and cut the verdant touch which was counterable and how do you counter orchard it cant be done look at the erata on stifle the token is a mana getting effect it cant be stifled just like you cant stifle gemstones loosing a counter its in response to a mana ability. The deck in this meta game just cant sit back because basically YOU DIE.

[prosbloom225]

I was just responding to the idea that someone said orchard by itself is the weakest card in the whole deck.  Oath is the weakest card solo in the whole deck.  Without forbidden orchard being printed, this deck would not be vintage tier 1 quality.  Orchard is the sole card that lets this deck transfer over to t1.

[the boogie man]

that is completely insubstancial, and I doubt that you guys even know wha I'm talking about. not insulting you guys, but I think that you got sidetracked. I said that the orchard is the weakest card in the deck that you cannot cut. yes it triggers oath, but relying on an orchard for mana is a scary thing to do. it can easily cost you games if you don't use it in moderation. that is what I mean. I know that orchard makes oath viable by giving it an uncounterable mana source that quickly and efficiently triggers oath, but what I'm saying is that it is dangerous when you don't have an oath out.

oath, on the other hand, is still usefull without the orchard. goblin welders come down early, as do other goblins, fishies, jugs pop out early every so often, and other randomly assorted bs.

[prosbloom225]

Hey that makes sense more than what was said earlier.

[Draven]

This conversation has seriously gone astray. My orginal question was this:

My playtesting of Oath is you play one spell and protect the hell out of it to the finish line. Is this accurate?

What are the Oath scare cards? I know bounce spells are pretty annoying, but what else?

Should you slow play or fast play Oath? For example, if you have Orchard/Mox/Oath in opening hand (no FoW) should you try and power out Oath, or slow play until you have protection? I guess the question is is Oath played as a Control or Combo deck. I know it depends on the build, but most builds have 8-12 counters so I would assume most of them play the control game. Thoughts?

[prosbloom225]

My playtesting of Oath is you play one spell and protect the hell out of it to the finish line. Is this accurate?

Its more or less, counter key spells until you pull oath/orchard, then protect the hell out of that until akroma/dsc.  Then swing for the win, caring little about oath.

[the boogie man]

if you have multiple oath's in hand, go for the first one, then wait for protection. if you only have one, then it depends on what you are playing. I like to do it faster, so I threw in some wicked pimp misdirections along with the forces and drains, and merchant scrolls to fetch them.

[Moxlotus]

This conversation has seriously gone astray. My orginal question was this:

My playtesting of Oath is you play one spell and protect the hell out of it to the finish line. Is this accurate?

What are the Oath scare cards? I know bounce spells are pretty annoying, but what else?

Should you slow play or fast play Oath? For example, if you have Orchard/Mox/Oath in opening hand (no FoW) should you try and power out Oath, or slow play until you have protection? I guess the question is is Oath played as a Control or Combo deck. I know it depends on the build, but most builds have 8-12 counters so I would assume most of them play the control game. Thoughts?

Again, it really depends on your build.  What are your counters besides FoW?  Duress?  Drain?  Leak?  Mis'D?

If your first Oath gets countered, how screwed are you?  Do you run tutors to immediately find another one?  Do you have to rely on TfK's or AKs to find more?

It really depends.  It almost seems like the more black, the more aggro you should play.  It all depends on how you build your deck.

Oath hates Ray of Revelation more than anything.