Coma White

[Ben Kossman]

This archetype is an attempt at making a WW deck that can effectively disrupt the tier one decks out there. The card I think makes it viable is Glowrider.

W2
2/1
All non-creature spells cost an additional 1

I think this guy is in fact quite good despite costing 3 mana his effect is almost totally one-sided in a creature based deck.
Combined with Kataki, War's Wage, Samurai of the Pale Curtain, True Beleiver, and Wasteland I think this deck can compete quite effectively. In addition to all this other stuff I also have good old STP to deal with DSC. Here's what I've
got so far...

Artifact:4
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

White:36
4 Glowrider
2 Kataki War's Wage
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 True Beleiver
4 Icatian Javlineers
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Savannah Lions
2 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Abolish
4 Swords to Plowshares

Land:20
1 Strip Mine
1 Karakas (Anti-Oath Tech)
4 Wasteland
14 Plains

Sideboard
4 Aether Vial (Vs. Blue-based control, Stax)
4 Pithing Needle (More Hate, Like I need it...)
4 Empyrrial Armor (When it's necessary to race or hate isn't doing much good)


There's not a whole lot to it. You just play like a regular WW deck who's two drops happen to be insidiously evil and
effective hate cards. Weathered Wayfarer is also top notch allowing me to fetch Wasteland/Strip Mine and give Oath
fits with Karakas. A blue splash is certainly doable but you might as well just play U/W fish if that's what your going
for. This decks traditional weakness against combo is negated somewhat by Glowrider, True Beleiver, and Samurai.
Since the average control deck is either Gifts or Slaver nowadays it's also got game against them as well if you get down
an early Samurai or True Beleiver. I'm not 100% sure how good Kataki is but he's in for now and seems to fit perfectly
with the overall theme. The main question I have is about MDing Empyrrial Armor. Do I have enough hate where it doesn't matter or do I want a faster clock? Thanks in advance for any relevant feedback...

[islanderboi10]

Isn't there already a different WW thread around here...?

[silvernail]

islander thansk for not being helpful now go away and let some one with some insight post...like me.

Alright this looks like your average WW build with glowriders in place of umezawa's jitte basically, which is the main point i want to stress here. The way this deck wins, if it does at all, is by slowing the opponent down then beating down while the opponent tries to catch up. What other deck in vintage does this? Thats right kids.... Fish.

Now why does fish win games? It can slow people down then counter spells to swing games via tempo advantage. Now this deck tries to do the same thing but instead of Dazes and Forces you have swords and abolishes, and better creatures. Also the deck can increase the speed of its horribly slow clock by using the aforementioned Jitte, which you lack. To rectify this i would ditch 3 cards: 1 Kataki (only can cast one so drawing two is bad), 2 Javlineers ( they serve arguably the same function as a Jitte vs aggro). That should help alot allowing you to have added creature removal as well as faster wins. Now the only issue with the deck is counter magic in which case you probably should board out kataki wars wages for vials games 2 and 3.

[PipOC]

If you're running wayfarer, why in the world would you eschew crucible?  That's the biggest advantage that running wayfarer could provide.

[Fubar]

If you are trying to win at a tournament, I couldn't see any way in which a white weenie strategy would be better than a blue weenie or a /W weenie, thus fish exists.  I would love to see a WW become viable (as it is in standard), but blue cards are better than white cards.  Even though the white creatures are better than blue creatures, it's the support cards which make the deck viable.  WW usually doesn't want balance (the best white card), so what does it get insted of ancestral, walk & friends?  Disenchant? Armageddon? I would say try to abuse land tax instead :lol:
That being said, glowrider would be one of the best creatures printed  At 2cc

[jackpot]

Hello. I've got decent experience with WW in T1 now. You may want to check out the other WW thread on here I started for some deck ideas. My version is W/U, but that's only because of Meddling mage and Tradewind riders in the SB. I also run 4 null rod main. No jitte. You could argue either way, but it's my experience that getting Slaver locked royally sucks. 1 have 3 Land tax in the deck and they work wonders with Abolish, Empyrial armor, and help get Exalted angel online. The Land tax is the weakest card in the deck, but it helps keep up the pace w/ the other decks. I also have 1 Enlightened tutor main to grab a null rod or Empyrial armor. I also have 4 serenity iin the board, so it's like a 5th. The glowriders area great addition. That basically should ruin combo's day. War wage isn't as good as Null rod. However, null rod can't be vialed out either. The Armors in the sideboard may be better served as other guys. Like whipcorder for instance. DSC is game over if you don't have swordsTP or it gets countered. Whipcorder will just tap it. At first I was thinking about topple for this problem, but there just aren't that many creatures to worry about. I personally am counting on Tradewind to solve many problems that may arise, like DSC, welder, Oath, etc. I think that you are playing too many guys. I understand how glowrider works, but more disrupion elements are called for. I'd cut the war wage from the main add 3 to the board and add 4 null rod or jitte if there's a heavy creature metagame in your area. Personally, I like Null rod. I doesn't have an immediate synergy with the deck, but it does solve huge thereats to the deck like opposing Jittes, Triskellion, Mindslaver, Belchers, powder kegs(i think), engineered explosives, and so on. I'd keep your board and just add 3 war warge to it. Other than that great work and keep it up.

[Fubar]

Once again I'd like to kindly assert that land tax is one of the best white cards, and trying to abuse four (such as empyrial arm.) could take you into good new directions.  That being said, Land tax is an excruciatingly slow card and not quick enough for todays modern decks.

[jackpot]

So having a 9/9 true believer courtesy of Empyrial armor/land tax is a bad thing? How does Control slaver deal with this monster? They cant slaver lock you and they will have to chump with Trike and shoot it after damage on the stack. Better yet, in my version if you get a 9/9 meddling mage naming goblin welder without one out, they're in a tough situation. Of course they'll just tiker for DSC, but STP is always there. If you are playing with Null rod trike just gets run over anyways. Land tax is the worst card in the deck, but it does have its uses. Yes, I realize that Land tax isn't outstanding unless you have the Armor. It's very helpful otherwise. It's not going to slow the deck down, that's for sure. Playing a threat and blowing up an artifact w/ abolish for free is huge. Nobody ever sees it coming. Land tax can help with that. With all the stripmine effects running around Land tax will make sure you won't get screwed. And who doesn't like drawing a key spell when you need it rather than a land? Its not there for sentimental value it's highly functional. I personally play 3 Land tax and one Enlightend tutor in place of the fourth. Grabbing Null rod, armor, or Serenity from the board is more important almost always anyways. So I'm agreeing. You shouldn't build a deck around Land tax, its just a very helpful card and should be included in WW.

[NWI Team_Zilla]

Not to add another pointless reply, but the last WW thread was a very optimal build, and it would probably be of some help if you review it(yes I know it doesn't have Glowrider).  And that WW deck was abusing Land Tax, as Fubar pointed out, and I believe that this build of WW is far from optimal.  More than anything else you need to be playtesting this deck and seeing if Glowrider(along with any other untested cards) is actually great/good for a WW deck, because just because it looks like it could be good, a deck with no playtesting behind it has no way to get better, or even prove that it is good enough for serious consideration.  Honestly I would love to test the deck but I just don't have the time.

I know it may seem like I am just putting down new ideas, but I want to see some match up analysis of some kind, so we can comment on way in which to make your deck better.  I also want to know if you have a specific deck you want to beat, or have problems with a specific deck, so we can help make the deck have better matchups.  
Any way after saying a whole lot of nothing, I wish you luck with the deck, but I want your help so that I can help you...(don't worry it doesn't make sense to me either .

[policehq]

I've already made a deck like this called Disco Ball, and it puts Glowrider, Chalice of the Void, and Sphere of Resistance all in one easy package.

4 Glowrider
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Savannah Lions
4 Exalted Angel
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Seal of Cleansing
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus
1 Trinisphere
4 Kami of Ancient Law
9 Plains

Exalted Angel is easy to play because of the artifact acceleration and Ancient Tombs, and while your opponent tries to race it, you play Sphere, Chalice, and Glowriders.

Barry

[Fubar]

First, I don't understand how trample tricks come into a ww deck.  None of the standard creatures have.  Second, yes land tax (and the cards it brings) work wonders for "free spells", and abolish truly does ends up being gold.  As for the whole land tax in ww discussion, from personal experience, land tax always makes me want to add scroll rack and become the control.  But that may be a flaw of mine.  I have to admit that i like the idea of having enlightened tutor and only three taxes, that versatillity can pay off, especially with all the white enchantments, i'll try it out.

[jackpot]

Trample tricks? What does that mean? Also, don't add scroll rack. If you don't have a means to shuffle constantly, its really bad. Its great only with Land tax. Otherwise, its horrible. I disagree with sphere of resistance AND glowrider in the same deck. I'd cut the spheres. If you have glowriders that should be enough. They would be better served as more creatures. Add True believers to the deck. They never cease to amaze me. I'd put the kami of ancient law into the board and add 4 Samurai of the pale curain. So with the Ancient Tombs, you can get out a quicker Angel and glowrider and maybe pump up a chalice for some reason? Is ancient tomb really that helpful in a deck w/ so many guys with WW in their casting cost? If you go with ancient tomb, then I'd add Jittes or maybe Sword of fire and ice. Actually, that's exactly what I'd do. Cut the spheres and make them 4 Jitte. 17 guys in the deck is low. I'd at least go with 20.

[policehq]

Sure, Glowrider is enough, except that you're completely depending on 4 cards in a 60 card deck with no draw...

Secondly, you're suggesting cutting the Ancient Tombs and Kami of Ancient Law when they go hand in hand. The only creatures I have that require WW are the Exalted Angels. A Sphere of Resistance followed by a Kami of Ancient Law is a very easy play. I specifically chose W1 creatures for that reason.

True Believer is a bad Silver Knight in a lot of games. He should be reduced to the sideboard only, but Glowriders and Spheres of Resistance help a lot already, and if need be, you can side in Orim's Chants.

[Fubar]

I believe true believer shuts down tendrills, thus he should always have a home in the board, depending on how important that is in your meta.  And no, scroll rack has no place in an aggro deck, it is only gold if you are going the control/land tax route, a la deck parfait.

[Ben Kossman]

True Beleiver also stops Slaver so I think he's maindeck material. I edited my original post to include Savannah Lion and
Isamaru for additional beats. The reason I'm not running Jitte main is that it's a non-creature spell and has bad synergy with
Glowrider. It's definitely good versus other creature decks though so it's a good idea in the sideboard. Maybe something
like so...

2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Aether Vial
4 Exalted Angel
4 Empyrrial Armor

I'm set up to take on Aggro game which should be this deck's problem matchup even though I don't really expect to see
any aggro that's not running Workshop so it's not a huge concern.

[NWI Team_Zilla]

True Believer is a metagame choice, if you know that your going to be seeing CS and Meandeck Tendrills all day, put him maindeck, otherwise, I agree that he is probably best useful in the SB.

2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Aether Vial
4 Exalted Angel
4 Empyrrial Armor

I'm set up to take on Aggro game which should be this deck's problem matchup even though I don't really expect to see
any aggro that's not running Workshop so it's not a huge concern.

How would Empiral Armor ever be better than Umezawa's Jitte?  Your not running Land Tax to build up your hand and your trying to beat the aggro matchup, Jitte is made for aggro decks to beat up on other aggro decks.  Just some suggestions.

[jackpot]

Rigt. armor has no place in the deck w/o land tax. Jitte is the way to go. Just have some way to deal with your opponents' jitte maindeck or you'll lose to the mirror or fish. You will lose to fish even though your guys are better. I've seen this happen. You just can't keep up. If you insist on jitte, then I'd run abolish even w/o tax. Its that good. Personally, I go w/o Jitte and play null rod and just shut down all artifacts.

[Discozombie]

I ran a version of WW during the heyday of GAT.  Here is an attempt at a current list.  WW can be a house, its biggest draw back is its lack of speed.  WW's strength has always been its creatures, so I attempted to add all the tech critters that I could.  I threw in the glowriders for you, I am not the biggest glowrider fan, but if you like em...  Land tax is there purely for thinning out the deck and smoothing out the mana draws.  Remote farm is a questionable card, but I love it, it has allowed me to 2nd turn preacher more than once in my limited memory.

TrailerTrash

4 Preacher
4 True Believer
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Whipcorder
4 Icatian Javelineers
4 Katari, War’s Wage
4 Savannah Lions
4 Glowrider
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Land Tax
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
4 Remote Farm
12 Plains

SB
4 Serenity
4 Aether Vial
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Seal of Cleansing/Disenchant

[Ben Kossman]

Preacher is an awesome card. I can't beleive I overlooked it. Also, I was thinking of adding one Kjeldoran Outpost to combat control but that's also a metagame call dependent on the popularity of Wasteland. 

[Discozombie]

I have never really been a fan of waste/strip in WW.  It is so against the style of the deck plus the deck requires so much white mana that any colorless sources are really a waste of time.  Preacher is a house.

[Ben Kossman]

This deck differs a bit from the other WW builds in that the emphasis is on disruption as opposed to a faster clock. Wasteland and Strip are necessary in my opinion but your argument against it are definitely valid. I'm not building this deck to beat any particular matchup instead choosing to go with cards that are broad enough to hose more than one archetype without sacrificing a consistent threat base. This
deck has a strong matchup versus stuff like Slaver and Gifts. The problem matchups are Fish, Workshop Aggro, Stax and other creature based decks that don't care about the hate. Jitte is definitely a solid solution to this problem and is a good replacement for Glowrider. Here's my latest build taking the good ideas on this thread into account...

Artifact:4
2 Umezawa's Jitte (It's definitely worth testing if for no other reason than it get's rid of Fishes's Jitte)
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Pearl
1 Lotus Petal

White:34
4 Glowrider
4 True Beleiver (I can't imagine not playing this guy MD in a fully powered environment.)
4 Whipcorder (Definitely superior to Icatian Javlineers)
4 Samurai of The Pale Curtain
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Savannah Lion
2 Isamaru
4 Abolish
4 STP

Land:20
1 Karakas
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
14 Plains

So I like where this is going and plan on taking this to a tournament soon. I can't think of any really horrible matchups though I wouldn't expect this deck to dominate if people are ready for it. Fortunately people can't worry about beating WW or they'll get clobbered by the tier 1 decks
out there.

[Fubar]

     What about replacing one of the Savannah Lions with one of the Ismaru weenie legends from kamigawa?  A 2/2 means he won't be killed by goofy weenies like rootwallas or g.shamans. 
     White truly does have some of the best weenies, with things like samurai, believer, and Kataki, you can meta right proper.
Also, if you run wayfarer, you'll need more artifact mana, but can run a "toolbox" of special lands, bringing in stuf likstuffnctum & boseju, hell maybe even old school cheers like kjeldoran outpost? 
     What about tithe?  Another powerful card, better than land tax in some situations, as you can use it during opponent's turns.  Then you might even get to use your abolishes
     Javelineers are totally weak.  They were only used when you expect many, many welders, and bounce things with ninja tricks.  But preacher seems totally teck, maybe better than old man.  But at the three slot we might have to lose the glowrider for him.  If we are trying to build a weenie creature base, that should be tops, white weenie has no place for angels and the like. 
What about peacemaker?  I live a goblin area as of late, so i've become very anti aggro.  Even though he has a mighty upkeep, he seems like he could shut down Many, many strategies, even collosus  8-)colossus