Help me with Black Suicide

[Skeletron]

Hi, know this deck is not so hot any longer, but I want to play this deck in anyway beacaus  it´s so  cool and fun to play. Do any of you have any idea how to build this deck? I have read the primer concerning Legend Black, and also built a deck from this, but I wonder if this deck not have  been pretty remaked? Had been kind of you to post a optimized deck thats works good against aggro! =P // Thank you!

[CapitanJon]

there are several builds of this deck, this is the list I used to run:


\\creatures//
4x black knight
4x Hippie
4x Negator
4x juzam djinn

\\discard//
4x duress
4x hymn
1x mindtwist

\\disruption+controll//
4x dark ritual
4x diabolic edict
1x necropotence
1x yawg will
1x yawg bargain
1x demonic tutor
1x vamp tutor

\\mana//
1x lotus
1x jet
1x petal
1x chrome
1x sol ring
1x strip mine
4x wasteland
4x delta
8x swamp

some people like to run sinkholes etc...

sideboard should probably include the abyss, more removal, etc...

[BigMac]

You should really be looking harder through these boards as there are numerous discussions about black builds. Control and/or sui. So please search before you ask for other people to put down lists with no explanation whatsoever. (also against regulations if i am not mistaken)

[silvernail]

Well im not going to supply a list( let alone an outdated one) but Ill explain the deck to you.

The goal of this deck is to use discard and or land destruction to limit what your opponent can do, meanwhile you use some kind of creature (usually phyrexian negators) to quickly beat your opponent.The issue here is that your game plan usually runs out of gas in 2-3 turns and you cant do much after the inital splurging of cards except hope that it lasts long enough to win you the game. This of course is build dependant and you can built a black deck now adays that might have some game depending on the meta.

[ sarcam ]
Or to put it another way:
When your girl is jumpin your bones, and your like aaawwweee yaa this is the r0xx0r5 baby, you got to get up and distract that bitch and get her to slow dat shit down, cus if you dont home boi you gonna have a premature ejaculation and you know what that means dont ya son? You be all like 0mgXX05 Im the r0XX0r5 and she'll be like stupid n00b you just got pwned.

ooohh wait we are card floppers that analogy wont work and wouldnt you know it im fresh out, better luck next time.
[ / sarcasm]

[tdickinson]

rofl @ silvernail: That had to be the best magic analogy I've seen in a while.

CapitanJon's build is probably not the best thing to run in an aggro metagame. You definitely wouldn't want Negators, those should be replaced with maybe Phyrexian War Beasts? I'm not entirely sure, I haven't played this deck in years. You should also drop the Black Knights for Nantuko Shades.  I'm just tossing this list together real quick, so it's probably a bit off, but try something like this is you -must-  run Sui.

4 Nantuko Shade
4 Hypnotic Spectre
3 Masticore
3 Phyrexian War Beast

4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Sinkhole
1 Mind Twist

4 Dark Ritual
3 Night's Whisper
1 Yawg's Win
1 Demonic Tutor

2 Diabolic Edict

1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
16 Swamps

EDIT: Haha, I can't believe I forgot Dark Ritual.

[Skeletron]

Hmm... Why no Rituals? And why run vampyric tutor? I

[ROLAND]

If you look in the type 1 open forum there is a "Black fish " primer. This will be you best bet at an inexpensive  yet viable suicide black type deck. ( I think it's on the 2nd or 3rd page of the forum)

Dark ritual = one time shot that is why people dislike it.
The Black fish deck uses aether vial and ritual to accelerate mana.

You will also need graveyard removal and some sort of draw engine.

Just some thoughts,

Roland

[CapitanJon]

yea upon reflection i realized that the white knightprobably isn't the best choice, shade is much better, but i can't possibly conceive running no dark rit's....  i also haven't ran this deck in a while but I'm pretty sure that there necessary...

[Discozombie]

my 1.37829203397348 cents

4 Nantuko Shade
4 Plague Bearer
4 Withered Wretch
4 Black Knight
4 Duress
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual
15 Swamps

real quick of the top of my head.  Chains is just awesome against everything.  Stops all draw engines.  Jitte for some extra oumph.  Bearer for spot creature removal, welders, mana lands, etc.  And if you are concerned about aggro drop chalice for 1 and let the knight and shade clean up whatever is left.

[tdickinson]

Sorry, Leaving out Dark Rituals was a mistake, the deck isn't (even good at pretending to be) competitive without them.

[Korhil]

The Deck that came 3rd (Played by a mate) in New Zealand Vintage Nationals (Very little power since it started at same time at the 2nd draft pod for the main event, many people couldn't play). The upside of this meant that all the Tier 1 decks that make Sui-Black a scrub deck weren't as abundant. Scrubby as it can be, Sui-Black is still one of the most enjoyable decks to play with

Some of the card choices are made to 'help' vs Aggro, but if theres heaps of Aggro, be a smart metagamer and don't play Sui-Black.

Creatures:
4 Nantuko Shade (=Best Black beat stick)
4 Phyrexian Negator (=Best Black beat stick)
4 Withered Wretch (Its ability is so strong + it beats)
2 Masticore (A creature to find vs Aggro)

Disruption:
4 Duress (always)
4 Hymm to Tourach (always)
4 Sinkhole (always)
4 Powder Keg (Better than Null Rod when theres less power, and it helps vs Aggro)

Brokeness:
1 Demonic Tutor (always)
1 Yawgmoths Win (win)
1 Demonic Consultation (Its good)

Mana:
4 Dark Ritual (always!)
4 Waste Land (always)
1 Strip Mine (always)
18 Swamp ( )

SIDEBOARD:
4 Dystopia (Can help vs lower powered Oath/Enchantress Builds)
4 Contagion (Can Killl a Tog/Welder for 0 mana, helps vs other Aggro)
4 Pithing Needle (Mostly an experiment, can probably run some main, help vs all sorts of things you see on the day)
3 Smother (Kill a Tog/Welder + other dudes)

Vamp Tutor is weak.
Ritual should be in every Mono-Black Deck.
Mind Twist costs too much.

---Korhil

[DeMarki]

Disruption
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole

Creatures
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Nantuko Shade

Board Control
3 Nether Void
3 Powder Keg

Draw/Tutors
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultations

Mana Sources
4 Dark Ritual
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Polluted Delta
12 Swamp

Disruption:
I have always prefered Duress to Cabal Therapy, since most of the decks I play with are kinda random and I want to make sure it will take out a threat rather than hitting air. If you don't know what deck your opponent is playing, or what cards he uses how can you tell which card you'll Therapy?
Hymn to Tourach is devastating except for decks that make great use of their graveyard, if I run into one of these I'll just put them SB no big deal. But Trading a card for 2 is always a bargain, especially during the first turns, when early disruption combined with a Fat creature can end games. And it's artwork is awesome and creepy...!
Sinkholes are one the best and fastest disruption spells and combined with Wastelands/Strip Mines can give you the advantage you want.

Creatures:
Phyrexian Negator is the fastest and most efficient threat Black can offer. Putting early pressure on the table, combined with some disruption is a game winner, the Void just finishes off the game.
Nantuko Shade is the best creature under Void, and very efficient vs other weenies.

Board Control:
Nether Void is the heart of the deck, it usually finishes off the game or holds your opponent way back after some early disruption or pressure.
Powder Keg is amazing vs artifacts and small creatures and it's a mox killer.

Draw/Tutors:
Necropotence is the ultimate draw engine keeping your hand full at all times and making sure you have enough threats to finish off your opponent.
Will is very usefull especially with a couple of rituals in the graveyard, almost like taking some extra turns. It's good even if you just play again only 2 spells, since it would be plain card advantage. After Void hits table it becomes a bit pricy though.
Demonic Tutor is the best tutor the game can offer.
Demonic Consultations is very fast and aggresive as a tutor, but since this deck runs everything in 4 or 3 copies minimum, it's drawback isn't that big. And Demonic Consultations >> Vampiric Tutor in this deck because Vampiric is card disadvantage and causes you to lose life. This deck needs a something faster and more aggresive. Do you agree?  Confused

Mana Sources:
5 Strip Effects are essential since pressure and disruption must be cheap and efficient like those cards.
4 Mishra's Factories work well together, under Void are very dangerous and aggresive and very good vs creature decks.
4 Polluted Delta are more than enough to thin this deck while establishing a very flexible mono coloured mana base.
12 Swamps should be enough, combined with the 4 Fetchlands.

[silvernail]

To post a more useful comment, discozombie's list is the most recent attempt at sui black, and if i were to run this deck id run his list minus whatever dudes you feel are least useful and adding the dude from COK i think it is, nezumi something that becomes a 4/2 if your oppnent has no cards in graveyard or the other nezumi(shortfag i think) that can pay 1B to force a discard and flips if they have no cards.)

The other lists suffer from premature ejaculation as mentioned in my first post. Oh and on that note Id maybe add 2 undead gladiators for games that take a  bizzare amounts of turns. Oh and just one more thing, always use protection havving your menz getting plowed sucks.

[tidal kraken]

Okay, this could be a long post.


Hymn to tourach is terrible. With so many decks uitilizing the grave, there's a good chance you will end up getting rid of a slaver/bus/trike, etc.

Negator is good in the right meta, but if a lot of burn/aggro is run, it's not too hot.

Nantuko shade is bad. It eats your tempo alive.


I would suggest a splash of white for StP, balance, seal of cleansing, and exalted angel for the win. Plague spitter is also a good utility critter that clears the board of weenies, and/or beats for 3.

Basic Shell of Sui

T1
4 wasteland
1 strip mine
4 dark ritual
4 duress
4 complementary discard
1 demonic tutor
1 necropotence
1 vampiric tutor
4 swords to plowshares
4 scrubland
2-4 caves of coilos
2-4 swamps
2-4 exalted angel
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Balance

[Discozombie]

thanks silvernail.  Too many people want to automatically use old suicide black frames.  Suicide is pretty much dead for now, sinkhole and hymn are not what they used to be.

I would take this build into a random enviroment and not be too worried

4 Nantuko Shade
4 Plague Bearer
4 Withered Wretch
4 Black Knight
4 Flesh Reaver
4 Duress
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual
15 Swamps

SB
4 Planar Void (vs graveyardy stuff)
4 Null Rod (vs allthings artifact)
3 Aether Vial (vs control)
4 Phyrexian Negator (vs combo/creature low decks)