U\W Fish in the Current Meta

[lep]

I have been playing Fish extensively since the mono-blue Merfolk days and refuse to let the deck die.  I played UR Fish at SCG in Virginia in March and ended up 13th or something like that.  I was happy with the deck given it was my first larger tournament and I had the joy of sitting down across from Menedan with Meandeck Oath first round, but I digress.

Rescently the meta shifted drastically and my simple UR Fish with Grims, Bolts, Faeries and what not was no longer cutting it.  I shifted as most did over to UW Fish and as of now I am happy with the deck but I am always looking for improvement.  Below I have a deck list of what I am running right now.  I am looking for any feedback on how to twink it.  I purposely did not include a sideboard because I have a stack of about 100 cards that I carry with me and I make the board right before registration depending on how the meta looks and what weaknesses I see.

--Mana Base (23)
1 Plains
3 Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl

--Spells(19)
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
3 Aether Vial
3 Umenzawa's Jitte
3 Swords to Plowshares

--Creatures(18)
2 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Meddling Mage
2 Kami of Ancient Law
3 Voidmage Prodigy
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Ninja of the Deep Hour

--Stack of Sideboard Cards
Energy Flux
Pithing Needle
Chalice of the Void
Null Rod
Stifle
Blue Elemental Blast
Swords to Plowshares
Tormod's Crypt
Kami of Ancient Law

[Anusien]

No Black Lotus?  That card is nuts for you, because Lotus + Land = Dork + Standstill on turn 1, or Vial + Jitte or other nuts plays.

Aether Vial at 3: I can't see you running any less than 4 unless you cut them altogether.  It just seems to me that without 4 you won't ever draw one when you want it (in your opening grip).  The problem is multiples don't help you and you can't pitch the extras.

Kataki seems bad for you since you have 3 artifacts you really want to hang around - Chalice, Jitte and Vial.  Even if Vial is saving you mana, it seems like you can't afford to tap down 2-3 lands per turn for nothing.

Cloud of Faeries sucks for you - they enable more broken turn 2 plays, but Vial is so much better; they don't untap from a Vial and they make Moxen suck.  What's really important though, is they're just a generic beater.  Spiketail Hatchling is much better all around, especially as a turn 1-2 play where its ability can slow the other guy down.  Hatchling is also much better late game when you can pop it out of a Vial as a surprise Daze.

Ninja of the Deep Hours: I was finally convinced to cut him from my Vintage WtF.  He's really too slow for the format, doesn't help you in the early game (when you desperately need a creature) and doesn't help you with your worse matchups, in places like Dragon or Meandeck Gifts.  I'd replace him with Rootwater Thief who can much more significantly effect the game.

Oh man, Disenchant in the board.  Don't people play artifacts around you?  I wouldn't run Null Rod - you'd have to board out Jittes/Vial/Chalice for it and you'd then have to board in Curiousities so your deck could actually do something.  Also, Phyrexian Furnace is probably better than Crypt, because Chalice of the Void turns off Tormod's Crypt (CC = 0), and in the matchups where you want the one, you generally also want the other.

[alban]

@ Anusien; He doesn't play Chalices main OR side 
That doesn't seems good to me: with just Kataki around, they can still use their moxen once, to go broken, or just pay for themselves, so that they can be used later as a tinker or welder target.
I agree with Anusien, you should play 4 aether vials. They're just broken.

EDIT: My wrong, he does mention them SB, but I seriously doubt that is enough, because EVERY deck plays moxen, so why not put them main?

[Firefly]

Kataki seems bad for you since you have 3 artifacts you really want to hang around - Chalice, Jitte and Vial.  Even if Vial is saving you mana, it seems like you can't afford to tap down 2-3 lands per turn for nothing.

Absolutely true, have you never had any problems with this? I mean, when you have Jitte + Vial in play, you really want to hang on to them.

Also, the Ninjas don't seem like a good choice, they are only effective in turn 2 or 3, and it costs you. I would cut them for an extra StP and 2 Misdirection or 2 Disenchant.

[Ocat]

@alban
he actually does mention Chalice in his 'stack of sideboard cards'

@iep
with colossus, welder, any oath creature and other creatures, Waterfront Bouncer looks like a good main/side board creature to me.

[lep]

I actually have not had an issue with Kataki.  I don't play him when I am sitting on 4+ artifacts obviously but I've had him win games when vialed in against stax.

I have one major issue with black lotus; it is an unnecessary risk.  The card is basically dead beyond the opening turns since my curve is 2 and I am open to welder tricks if I use it.  I took it out some time ago because of welders welding out rods\chalice in my old build.

I was looking to work in Waterfront Bouncers, Spiketail Hatchlings, and a 4th vial but I am very partial to my faeries.  They enable broken turn twos but also are great targets for Jittes since I can play both 2nd turn at worst.

My issue with Chalice main board is I would have to cut creatures.  With Vial being an integral part of the deck, cutting more creatures then I already have would be disastrous.  I've already cut control cards like Stifle and what not just to make room.  Right now I have 18 creatures in the deck, possibly cutting to 16 if I can find 2 spots for disenchants so the only thing that would be cut is Jitte which is my welder\weenie removal.

My issue is I am pulling the deck in too many directions.  I want a heavy creature base to handle the vial, but also a descent control element that Fish needs to compete, in addition I am trying to put in Jittes for tricks.

[Erik]

Try switching the plows for waterfront bouncers and then remove some other creature like the kamis and kataki to add in 4 chalices main. Waterfront bouncers are mad against oath and dragon plus all the decks that like to play "find the tinker" against fish and also against random-zoo.dec.

First post btw.

[lep]

I can't afford to drop swords.  A) It is 1 of the 2 reasons I play white and B) is the only spot removal the deck has.  Bouncing a welder every turn is not a viable option.

Kami will probably be put into my board stack but that leaves 7 open slots (2 Kataki, 3 Ninja of the Deep Hours, 2 Kami of Ancient Law) for 12-13 Cards (1 Vial, 4 Spiketail Hatchling, 2-3 Cheater Fish, 4 Chalices, 2 Disenchant).

[Erik]

Personally I dont think that vial-fish can afford to squeeze in any spot removal that doesn't come with a body attached,
incatian javelineers may be a good creature to include together with a few bouncers if you are having trouble with welders.

It all comes down to what kind of meta you are facing, the rootwater thieves are good against medium-speed combo such as TPS and gifts but blow against shops and control with more than 2 winconditions. The bouncers are good against everything that runs tinker/DSC and javelineers are good vs welders.

I would try these creaturebases:

in a combo/combo-control-heavy environment:
4 factory
4 meddling mage
3 waterfront bouncer
4 rootwater thief
3 voidmage prodigy

in a welder-heavy environment:
4 factory
4 meddling mage
4 waterfront bouncer
4 incatian javelineers
2 kataki

And always run 4 chalice, 4 vial and 3 jitte (and maybe the 4th one in sb). Jitte allows every creature on the board to pose a serious threat, you really only need 1-2 creatures out to win with jitte.

 

[Xyre]

An excellent primer for this was posted on SCG: Darwin at Work: The Evolution of Fish, by Doug Linn, sorts out the best plays for both Meandeck and Worse than Fish.
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/10049.html
As for the deck itself, I would try running Kira, Great Glass-Spinner out of the sideboard, because it saves your creatures from Old Man and other random cards which used to give Fish nightmares.