TnT in the current Meta

[Blitzbold]

With Stax again being one of the decks to beat with different versions winning major tournaments recently I started to think how to beat them if one does not want to join them.

I liked the ‘new’ 5C incarnation of the deck from the first time I saw a list as much as I hate the traditional $t4K$ of old, though. 5C Stax contains all the evil prison parts as well as tutors and the best cards and hosers each color provides. Nevertheless the deck did not seem to like me as much as I liked it, as testing the deck in different variants was not satisfying. Additionally, with Mono-R Uba Stax winning the most recent Power-9 tournament and 5C Stax winning both the German Vintage Championship (again congratulations to Rene) and the Vintage World Championship (congratulations to Roland) within only one week I feel the need play something different as I hate mirror matches.

There are different routes one can take to beat Stax. I try to list some ways, but I will forget something for sure.

- One possibility is to kill the opponent very fast in a comboish way. Though nearly all modern combo decks contain some sort of bounce in the form of Rebuild and such, nearly all of Stax’s cards good against this plan. If you ever tried to rebuild the board with Chalice set to 0, 2-Sphere and also ItEoC or Smokestack ‘1’ on the board you know what I mean…

- Another possibility is to try to play as much permanents as Stax and try to overhelm the Smokestack while beating them down. I tested 5C Stax against Legacy Vial Goblins, and it was a horrible match with the goblins having 8 ways of just ignoring CotV or Spheres (containing both 4 Lackeys and 4 Aether Vials).

- A third way to beat Stax might be to play some hate.dec such as RG RootBeatz, which in particular is not a good matchup as I had to learn at the German Vintage Champs. Root Maze alone is a great hoser against all the (WS and non-WS) acceleration Stax contains, and both Kird Ape and Wild Mongrel are efficient beaters. I also thought about UW or UGw Fish with Maindeck Kataki, War’s Wage (a 2/1 with Energy Flux built in).

- Decks like Meandeck’s Gift.dec can beat Stax if they are able to counter the early threads and simultaneously build up their manabase quickly. However, the match will become worse after sideboarding.


Especially possibility #2 made me thinking about trying WS Aggro. While containing the same acceleration as Stax as well as 4 Welders (soooo key), their aim is to quickly play some fat beats such as Juggernauts and Triskelions. I thought this might be good against Stax because the actual incarnations try to win in a more controlish way by using Smokestack ‘1’ and Crucible of Worlds, gaining a small advantage every turn (feels like Keeper of old). With fat beaters on the opposing side of the table this gameplan turns from a good into a bad one. I looked for the current builds of WS Aggro, but I do not like them, missing some kind of consistency.

This is -finally- where the idea of revisiting T’n’T - Tools and Tubbies came from, as I wanted a solid base of creatures as well as a steady source of utilities and answers for different situations of the game. With GY hate not being widely played and artefact decks running rampant at the moment the colours traditionally used by this archetype provide solid answers. And finally the Thursday tourney at GenCon was won by TnT – coincidence?

First of all I tried to find some original TNT list by it’s inventor Benjamin Rott, but Morphling.de’s archives only go back to the mid of 2002.

This is a list Benjamin Ribbeck used to place 1st in Dülmen in July 2002:

Mana
7 SoLoMox
1 Grim Monolith
4 Land Grant
1 Library of Alexandria
4 Mishra’s Workshop
1 Strip Mine
4 Taiga
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Tropical Island
3 Wasteland

Broken
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar

Engine
4 Survival of the Fittest
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

Tools
1 Anger
1 Elvish Lyrist
1 Genesis
4 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Wonder

Tubbies
4 Juggernaut
1 Masticore
4 Su-Chi
2 Triskelion


SB 3 Artifact Mutation
SB 2 Elvish Lyrist
SB 2 Emerald Charm
SB 1 Flametongue Kavu
SB 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB 4 Tormod’s Crypt

Other versions were straight RG with the advantage of being able to use Blood Moon as disruption

I think that a modern build will differ only slightly, as the core of the deck should do quite well in the current meta. Especially over here in Germany, where nearly no unsanctioned (read: proxies permitted) are taking place, the combination of hasted, flying faties and utiliy-creatures should currently be able to hold it’s own. Even where proxies are allowed a deck based on this might be good at the moment.

Obviously the deck has some flaws in comparison to modern aggro- or aggro-control decks. I think the main reason for this is the age of the deck. Improvements should therefore not be a problem.


Mana
Land Grant of course must be replaced by Fetchlands. Additionally, the speed of modern Vintage decks requires the use of fast mana sources, so both Mana Crypt and Mana Vault should be automatic inclusions. Without any test results so far I think the deck’s amount of mana should be something between 27 and 29 sources to let the deck work properly. Similar to Stax a 5c version might be good, but this permits the use of the Incarnations from Judgement Anger & Wonder, as on has to have a Mountain or an Island in play to gain any benefits from them. I plan to use them both in a 3c version of this deck, which therefore requires playing with those land types. The deck should also be able to repeatedly use SotF.

7 SoLoMox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
2 Tropical Island
1 Forest

At least one basic Forest is a must-inclusion in my opinion since Green provides possible outs if any opponents play non-basic hate besides Wasteland.


Disruption
Benjamin’s old list only contains 4 strip effects as pure disruption next to the utility creatures. In my opinion a deck like this should at least contain the full 5 strip effects as well as some additional disruption. Trinisphere is an auto-inclusion in any deck running Workshops, so this is in. Other possibilities are 2-Sphere, Tangle Wire and Pyrostatic Pillar which all have their flaws and merits. Chalice of the Void is another option, but the deck will contain important cards at different casting costs. Chalice might be needed to fight combo, though.

1 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire

I think this requires some discussion, but for now I take 4 Tangle Wire as a kind of placeholder.


Broken
Nothing really changed here. Some restricted cards came to my mind, but the cards used by Benjamin back in 2002 are essentially those which should make it into the reworked list.

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar


Engine
The Engine remains untouched. SotF is a slow, but excellent tutor for this kind of deck.

4 Survival of the Fittest
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

One problem that might arise is that these days a more powerful Enchantment for 1G is seeing play – Oath of Druids. To be able to win this matchup the deck needs a reworked toolbox.

Pithing Needle naming SotF could be a problem. For this case the deck should still be able to simply beat the opponent down as well as containing some outs against a one-mana artefact.


Tools
Things are getting trickier here, as far more decks than in 2002 have to be considered nowadays. The utility creatures therefore should ideally be able to perform multiple purposes. When brainstorming for possible inclusions I found several creatures worth to be considered. Because of the higher diversity of decks today the toolbox also might become bigger.

1 Anger
1 Duplicant / Gilded Drake
1 Elvish Lyrist
1 – 2 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
4 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Waterfront Bouncer
1 Wonder

With Tinker / Colossus being included in many decks, hasty Goblin Welders obviously provide a way to deal with mighty man of steel. I also think that Duplicant and / or Gilded Drake should find a place in this deck. Next to Waterfront Bouncer they are a tutorable solution for Oath next to Lyrist / Genesis, which might be too slow. Combining the Bouncer with Duplicant or Drake is also devastating for opposing creature decks.

TnT might be a deck where Eternal Witness finally finds a place to shine in Vintage. It allows the recursion of (broken) effects other than creatures. Genesis on the other hand might prove to be too slow for modern Vintage, but for now I leave it in the deck.

I replaced Uktabi Orangutan with Viashino Heretic since it provides the possibility of repeatedly destroying artefacts. On the other hand the heretic requires more mana, so that the sex monkey should at least have a slot in the Sideboard.

Goblin Sharpshooter also came to my mind. It allows shooting Orchard tokens as well as opposing Goblin Welders or might even permit a Dragon player to enter his combo. I do not know whether he is good enough for the Maindeck, but I definitely want one in my Sideboard. Maybe Masticore is a better MD choice, as he performs a similar duty and is castable on turn 1 with WS + Mox. I did not see the ‘core for a while now, but with Welders running rampant it might be useful again.

Another creature not included yet is Viridian Zealot. Though very versatile, he requires 1GGG for casting and destroying an artefact or enchantment, which just feels to be too much coloured mana for this deck. I also tought about Quirion Ranger, but I do not think it is necessary at the moment.


Tubbies
Since 2002 an increasing number of creatures fight for slots in the deck. The Tubbies need to cheap and fat and ideally have a useful ability. I think there is number of quality creatures out there. Until now I suggested 29 cards for mana sources, 5 for each disruption and engine and 13-14 utility creatures. Sadly, this only leaves space for 7-8 Tubbies. Obviously some of the other parts have to be cut down.

Creatures I definitely want to run are

4 Juggernaut
1 Sundering Titan
1 Darksteel Colossus
1-2 Triskelion
0-2 Masticore / Razormane Masticore


Su-Chi sadly does not cut it anymore, as there are better options available. I would love to see him in the deck, at least as a two-of, but I do no see space for it. A friend of mine once played with Phyrexian Colossus, which was also nice but which in my opinion is also not good enough today.

Sundering Titan on the other hand is an auto inclusion in my opinion. Darksteel Colossus should have haste nearly every time when tinkered for and can be discarded for SotF as well as for a Masticore. I do not know whether he really fits into this deck, though. There are other decks out there which might be better suited to abuse him, but I think it is not wrong to include him.


This is my actual working list. Please feel free to discuss my choices.

T'n'T 2k5
7 SoLoMox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
2 Tropical Island
1 Forest

1 Trinisphere
4 Tangle Wire

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar

4 Survival of the Fittest
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

1 Anger
1 Duplicant / Gilded Drake
1 Elvish Lyrist
1 – 2 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
4 Goblin Welder
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Waterfront Bouncer
1 Wonder

4 Juggernaut
1 Sundering Titan
1 Darksteel Colossus
1-2 Triskelion
0-2 Masticore / Razormane Masticore


Ideally all nine or ten of the creatures mentioned above will make it into the Maindeck, but finding the space for them is a difficult task since the deck is already full. Karn could act as both fattie and artefact destruction, taking the slot of Gorilla Shaman. On the other hand Karn will not handle a Piting Needle set to SotF. There are far more possibilities for sure.

There are more cards which I would like to see in the deck; especially Crucible of Worlds should be somewhere in there. Umezawa’s Jitte might also be an option since it turns every utility creature into a Tubby.

Please feel free to discuss the list as well as a possible Sideboard (for a general metagame?). Some choices for the Board might include: Goblin Sharpshooter, Uktabi Orangutan, Elvish Scrapper, Artefact Mutation, Oxidize, Naturalize, Red Elemental Blast, Pyrostatic Pillar, Echoing Truth, In the Eye of Chaos (why not?) and so on.
 
Maybe some of the cards I listed are not necessary or too slow. I also think that I forgot a lot of cards which are worth considered. This is something I would like to be discussed. I will try to incorporate any changes which we agree are necessary.

One might even want to question the viability of this archetype today. Though I think that I made myself why I think that TnT might be an alternative again I will gladly discuss this topic, too.


Michael

PS: Please feel free to contact me: m-heiduk AT gmx.de

PPS: I hope my spelling and wording is not too bad, but English is not my first language. I will correct any mistakes I will find.


EDIT: Reworked the mana base. Changed decklist accordingly.

[TimeWizzle]

Did i miss the workshops in your list?  Trinisphere+artifact fat seems like it would want some workshops, you know, to actually cast them.  Unless the plan is to rely completely on welders, which seems like a mistake.  And it doesn't look like the MWS were just omitted, because you already have 28 mana sources (which is probably two too many) before workshops are added. 

That beign said, I don't know that TnT is all that viable in today's environment, seeing how Oath is a green 2 mana enchantment that reads 1G: win in two turns and it hasn't been showing up in T8's for a while now.  Probably better off sticking to stax or maybe workshop aggro

[cssamerican]

That beign said, I don't know that TnT is all that viable in today's environment, seeing how Oath is a green 2 mana enchantment that reads 1G: win in two turns and it hasn't been showing up in T8's for a while now.

I think the problem with Oath though is you only have 4 threats in the deck, so if your opponents stop Oath from resolving they win. TnT wouldn't have this problem, so I think the better questions to ask are:

Is TnT better than the standard Workshop Aggro decks?
Is TnT better than the Vengeur Masqué or Ninja Mask?

[Blitzbold]

Did i miss the workshops in your list?  Trinisphere+artifact fat seems like it would want some workshops, you know, to actually cast them.  Unless the plan is to rely completely on welders, which seems like a mistake.  And it doesn't look like the MWS were just omitted, because you already have 28 mana sources (which is probably two too many) before workshops are added. 

That beign said, I don't know that TnT is all that viable in today's environment, seeing how Oath is a green 2 mana enchantment that reads 1G: win in two turns and it hasn't been showing up in T8's for a while now.  Probably better off sticking to stax or maybe workshop aggro

OMG... And I was still wondering where all the space for mana comes from.  :shock:  I will correct the list immediately.

As I already said I do not know whether TnT can rise again. I think so, because it has the tools to fight some of the best decks at the moment. Oath is indeed powerful, but people know how to play against it. Of course there are these starts where Oath 'just wins' - you know: Orchard, Mox, Oath with counter backup. But I for myself (and other players too) often had the problem of finding one of the missing pieces.

I think TnT can be build to be a 'better' WS Aggro, therefore I opened this thread.

That beign said, I don't know that TnT is all that viable in today's environment, seeing how Oath is a green 2 mana enchantment that reads 1G: win in two turns and it hasn't been showing up in T8's for a while now.

That's another problem I have had with Oath.

I think the problem with Oath though is you only have 4 threats in the deck, so if your opponents stop Oath from resolving they win. TnT wouldn't have this problem, so I think the better questions to ask are:

Is TnT better than the standard Workshop Aggro decks?

I think so, yes. TnT has SotF, a slow but permanent tutor as well as a creature-based toolbox for problematic situations. WS Aggro was great with Trinisphere unrrestricted, but I thinks it is a lot weaker without it.

Is TnT better than the Vengeur Masqué or Ninja Mask?

That is another question that came to my mind, too. Vengeur /Red produces hasted 12/12 trampling monsters. Ninja Mask has nice additional disruption in the form of Duress as well as access to Withered Wretch and Chains of Mephistopheles. Both are capable of killing within a few turns by using Dreadnoughts or Shifter-Phage and also have a small toolbox via SotF at hand. I honestly do not know whether those decks are better than TnT, as both archetypes have similarities as well as being hugly different. Some arguments in favour of TnT might be that

- TnT uses CotF, but does not solely rely on it; Vengeur Mask usualls needs SotF for the comboish Shifter.kill
- Juggernauts are useful on their own, both Mask or 'naught are not
- As Null Rod might see more play again (both in Uba Stax as well as Fish, aiming at Fishies with the Chalice/Vial configuration), Mask will suffer as a kind of splash damage

But I do get your point. However I do believe that especially TnT's sideboard provides better tools for the current meta such as to fight the rise in Stax.

[warble]

Observation 1:
A combo deck exists that contains 4x Mana Drain and 4x Force of Will.  This did not exist when TnT was popular.

Observation 2:
This deck does not contain 4x Mana Drain and 4x Force of Will (but does contain the same number of mana sources as combo), and does not beat that deck, well, ever.

Observation 3:
The modern evolution of Workshop decks contain many lockdown pieces and fatter creatures then this deck.

Therefore, I am forced to conclude this deck is (a) suicidal aggro and (b) a toolbox deck with no quick win.  If it was as simple as just switching some juggies out for eternal witnesses and bounce or oath, or putting in duplicants and Chalice and Spheres, I would suggest that (and you have "tried" that).  It's not, because the fundamental construction no longer "meshes" with this metagame.  Although 22 creatures are pretty, and make a decklist look old school, the fact that your opposition is running probably 6-12 creatures in the deck MAX means you have a full 10-16 slots of juicy juicy cards that are missing.  Can Yawgmoth's Will and Demonic Tutor and Force of Will make a deck better?  I'll leave that up to you.

[Blitzbold]

Observation 1:
A combo deck exists that contains 4x Mana Drain and 4x Force of Will.  This did not exist when TnT was popular.

Observation 2:
This deck does not contain 4x Mana Drain and 4x Force of Will (but does contain the same number of mana sources as combo), and does not beat that deck, well, ever.

Observation 3:
The modern evolution of Workshop decks contain many lockdown pieces and fatter creatures then this deck.

Therefore, I am forced to conclude this deck is (a) suicidal aggro and (b) a toolbox deck with no quick win.  If it was as simple as just switching some juggies out for eternal witnesses and bounce or oath, or putting in duplicants and Chalice and Spheres, I would suggest that (and you have "tried" that).  It's not, because the fundamental construction no longer "meshes" with this metagame.  Although 22 creatures are pretty, and make a decklist look old school, the fact that your opposition is running probably 6-12 creatures in the deck MAX means you have a full 10-16 slots of juicy juicy cards that are missing. 

When thinking about reworking TnT I was mainly thinking of a metagame full of Stax, as it won all the latest major tournaments and a lof of players are often following such a trend. And yes, the decklist looks old school, but that is not neccessarily bad.  I have admit, though, that MD Gifts is probably a rough match. However, the build contains the same tinkerable fat as the latest WS Aggro approach, and a hasty DSC is nothing to laugh about. The list as it stands definitely needs a lot of work to be competitive in a diverse meta. Maybe less tools and more lock elements? But thisis something I wanted to find out here.

Can Yawgmoth's Will and Demonic Tutor and Force of Will make a deck better?  I'll leave that up to you.

Point taken 

[ctthespian]

It's Cerebral Assasin just far superior to anything TNT can dish out.  TNT is just too slow to set up and isn't that great without survival.  However CA runs effectively 8 welders with animates, a superior draw engine and tutoring mechanisim, and can run just as much for sideboard options since it runs a 5c manabase.

I mean I love TNT and wish it was fast enough to come back, but even with CA's sometimes inconsistent hands (mulligans are key) it's superior to SOTF in vintage now.

-Keith

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

The problem with TnT is the manabase. You need to have workshop mana to cast all those tubbies, but you also need GG or more to use survival. This has always been the bane of TnT. You need atleast 3 turns to setup, and by that point, your opponent will likely have won the game. The manabase you posted is absolutely horrible. Why not run basics? A smart stax player will just shut off your green and now your deck becomes a crappy 5/3 list. Blue is also uneeded. Ancestral is nice, but it is a tempo loss. You aren't putting the pressure on by locking them down or beating to their head. Time walk is huge, but I don't think it justifies a horrid manabase. Finally, you're left with a sole waterfront bouncer, which, if you have active survival going, is pointless (you'd much rather go titan --> Welder).

The deck, built properly, does have a good chance at beating stax. The problem is, you lose to everything else. Mana Drain decks are more streamlined than ever. A turn 1 juggernaut is not going to cut it against Gifts. ctthespian hit it on the head. The only advantage TnT has is abusing welder, and CA and CS do it much better. Trust me, I LOVE TnT, just go look in the archived forums, but I don't think it's playable right now. Until Fish and  stax dominate the field, TnT just isn't the right call. Even combo is now running upwards of 3 MD bounce spells, all of which TnT is unable to deal with.

My friend and teammate Scott Limoges did T8 in the Thursday $500 event, because he played good matchups. Also, he did test the deck for a bit in anticipation of the metagame at GenCon. Not to take anything away from him, but if he got paired with any competent Gifts/Slaver players, things might have been different.

TnT isn't the best survival deck, isn't even the second best Shop deck, and isn't the best welder deck.

-Bob

[Marton]

Even though I don't think the deck is good, i am fairly sure that there are many errors in your build.

1- blue is pointless. It messes up your mana base.
2- you definately should run at least 2 gorilla shaman. theyre good against stax and md gifts.
3- you should give a shot at root maze/orb of dreams. they really mess up a lot fetchlands. Additionally, it is important to note that enchantments do mess up rebuilds/hurkyl's recalls. It's also less vulnerable to the sidebord hate people will bring against you.
4- anger is really good, but wonder is virtually pointless. if you need help for aggro (which you shouldnt) then you may consider running it on the side. But I would rather run more duplicant instead.
5- genesis is way too slow
6- you don't need 4x goblin welder with 4x survivals
7- remove lyrist and play platinum angel instead. it's your out against oath and combo game 1.
8- i'm fairly sure you can't run eternal witness. the tempo loss is far too big and the effect is subpar.
9- su-chi + welder + gorilla shaman is fun, even against null rod. (i wouldnt cut 4xsu-chi)
10- darksteel colossus is pointless. You should aim for disruption as much as possible.
11- i would put the heretic as a personal/meta choice, but it's still very much a mana hungry creature, particularly when coupled with sotf.
12- im fairly sure masticore/razormane masticore is suboptimal choice. it does not disrupts the opponent fast enough.
13- wheres memory jar ?

Goblin Sharpshooter also came to my mind. It allows shooting Orchard tokens

Yes, and then shoot the sharpshooter? wtf

[Blitzbold]

Ok, thanks for all of your replies. As a result of all the arguments one finally has to admit that TnT is not the kind of deck it once was. SotF really is too slow for the current meta. Additionally, and I already thought about this, a sole Juggernaut - even 1st turn - is not fast enough when backed by utility creatures instead of strong disruption. I think I was too narrow-minded and too focussed on bringing life back into this old beloved archetype when typing the first post. The mana base was in fact not that horrible and contained several basics - until TimWizzle mentioned that I simply forgot to type the Workshops. Idiot me... I also did not think about CA which is indeed better at, well, everything TnT could try to do. While thinking for that first post other problems came to my mind which have not been adressed yet. For example, Tinker-Colossus ist obviously very nice if you already have got Anger in your GY, but TnT has a hard time finding the sole Tinker without any tutors.

EDIT: @ Marton: Yes, in finally understand that I thought way too old school. Some of the choices were mainly influenced by all the old decklists I read this morning.

[TimeWizzle]

Well, before we scrap the whole discussion, (and not to hijack the whole thread), maybe we should discuss using SotF in a new deck that may pay tribute to TnT.  By this I mean, has anyone tried SotF in Cerebral assassin?  Early on you could survival up some squees to get the Bazaars rockin', find welders/titans to reanimate, find dragon for an alternate win/forced draw, etc.  Or even some sort of Vintage Reanimator (which i realize has been considered obsolete for some time, but one black and 8 life for akroma seems okay). 

[Juggernaut GO]

I played a cerebral assasin version running survival with dragon combo also at the first syracuse SCG p9 tourney,  I had to cut force of will to do it and did not have much success with the deck. I went 3-2-1 and dropped, I liked being able to tutor up any creature and welding it in in addition to using bazaars.  If I made the deck again I would cut the dragon combo out run only 2 animates and add force of will back in with some blue support.

[Grand Inquisitor]

A different take on this is to use survival as something of a conversion sideboard card to deal with matchups where lock components are less potent.  When trinisphere was unrestricted and I felt workshops were good enough to play I had a lot of success with a 5c stax list that converted against slaver and other workshop decks with a SB of:

4x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sundering Titan
1x Triskelion
1x Masticore
1x Duplicant
1x Platinum Angel
1x Gilded Drake
1x Waterfront Bouncer
1x Squee
3x Ray of Revelation

Obviously the maindeck was more creature heavy than typical stax lists in order to reach the sotf threshold of about 13-15 creatures.

Just some food for thought.

[Blitzbold]

Going 5c was another option I thought about, but I wanted to use the Incarnations from Judgement, at least Anger. 5c obviously does not allow this, as a 5c list requires running 7-9 5c lands for the spells to be castable. Which creaturres would be choosen for such a deck? Obviously it can not be a Cron-style deck as it requires Goblin Welders. Karn, Triskelion and Sundering Titan are in as well as at least 1 Gorilla Shaman. This brings us to a creature count of 7 (using 4 Welders).

[sidenote] One creature I particulary liked when testing Vroman's Uba Mask Stax was Solemn Simulacrum. Adding 2 permanents to the bord and replacing himself was great. I can not think of a similar creature providing the same advantage for a 5c build, as adding random Basics as 1-ofs results in a totally crappy mana base. Going red-based and adding other colors by using City of Brass or Gemstone Mines is also not feasible.[/sidenote]

Adding more creatures to a 5c Stax list means removing artifact or colored lock parts or tutors. None of those alternatives seem very attractive to me, but maybe it can be done. However, it is questionable whether such a hybrid build is better than pure WS aggro or Stax.

Regarding Bazaar of Baghdad: Matthias Hittl, who placed 2nd at the German Vintage Champs, played a hybrid Stax build. He used Uba Masks in a 5c Stax build, which also contained a full set of Goblin Welders. His build had the usual Crop Rotation, and he added a single Bazaar of Baghdad to the maindeck as well as some Maze of Ith to the sideboard. You can find his list here: http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=282.

EDIT: looked up vocabularis 

[Marton]

playing 5 colors and using incarnations don't really work together. Anger requires a mountain to work.

[TimeWizzle]

I agree with Marton, 5c does not "permit" the judgement avatars to be played, it pretty much eliminates them as a 5c mana base is most likely 4x city of brass, 4x gemstone mine, then random jank like tendo ice bridge.  also note the terrible dis-synergy of forbidden orchard and tangle wire/smokestack strategies.  Duals and basics, not so much in decks with sundering titan usually.

[Arvid]

I have an idea of testing a NinjaMask build with red Anger, cutting the whole 8 piece maskcombo for 4 Welders and 4 tools and/or tubbies, preferably Sunder Titan with friends. It would also cut black and duresses for TfK. I have not yet tested it though.

Anyone who has tested it or who has any thoughts or comments on it?