Powerless Keeper

[Victor]

Hello guys i'm writting from Spain.

Every time i've read about keeper it includes the very expensive pack. What about the "other cards"?

I send you my personal version of the Deck without the pack:

counter-lock//  16

4 Force of will
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
2 Counterspell
4 chalice of void

removal//   7

4 engineered explosives
1 swords
1 smother
1 balance

draw-tutors//  10

1 fact or fiction
1 demonic tutor
2 cunning wish
1 mystical tutor
1 intuition
4 accumulated knowledge

win//    3

3 morphling

lands//    24

2 wasteland
1 stripmine
1 dust blow
4 polluted delta
4 underground sea
4 tundra
7 island
1 sol ring


sideboard/////

1 disenchant
1 swords
1 diabolic edict
1 stroke of genius
1 meditate
1 allay
1 stifle
1 misdirection

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Please advise me if you would change something.

[Anusien]

I wouldn't, to begin with.  Keeper is a rather bad deck at the current time, especially without Moxen.  No Moxen = no turn 1 Mana Drain.  No Ancestral = a bad thing.  Anyway, Drain decks are basically classified by their speed and how threatening their Drain targets are.  The best thing Keeper can drain into for you is a Morphling, which isn't scary at all.  I'd switch decks; if you want a good budget option, I'd suggest Oath.  With 5 proxies, you can fill out the set of Moxen.

Nitpick: Run 4 Wasteland before you start running Dust Bowl.  I'd also cut some of the Engineered Explosives; most of the time you have one key threat to remove, and that can be fat (like Oath creatures).  I'd get up to 3 Swords, and cut the Smother, unless you're going to run into a lot more random aggro.

I'd cut Intuition and cut AKs as well.  The problem with those slots is they can be Red Elemental Blasted.  I'd probably put Skeletal Scrying in their place, along with a few Impulses as early filtering (replaces Brainstorm).

Tinker->Colossus > Exalted Angel > Morphling as a kill condition.  You want the fastest kill possible so you have to counter for fewer turns.  Colossus wins out there (and can be Mysticalled), and Angel is one turn slower than Morphling, but gives you some life gain to race aggro and let you cast Skeletal Scrying.  He also comes out for less, and makes a less juicy Drain target.

[Kowal]

Some of Anusien's early comments aren't entirely truthful.  Keeper has the same things to drain in to as everyone else except for Gifts.  What it lacks in Gifts draining it gains in Mind Twist, Cunning Wish, and Balance.

That said, I agree that keeper is shit, and if you play it then you aren't playing to win.

[Juggernaut GO]

whoa whoa whoa   what happened to Mr. I play grim power keeper and get 2nd and lost to a fish deck ????

[Victor]

There's place for disenchant, yawgmoth's will, stifle, misdirection, vampiric, abyss ?

How many counters must contain? i think only 8 isn't enough

3 swords are good against the bigs but a savior one counter chalice will cut it, what about chainer's edict or diabolic edict?

Colossus-tinker is a good option, with the 8 zero artifacts (chalice-explosives) ((Is powder keg better than explosives?)) morphling is fine also, angel is too weak against swords and sparks. Some keeper decks plays decree of justice but it needs the mana from moxen

Probably i will replace the acc.know and intuition for scrying, mind twist and others, but there's a problem in drawing without the ancestrall, how would you replace it? (if somebody could replace an ancestrall)

Why not the dust blow?

Thank you for your helping

[elias]

Wasteland is better than dustbowl in the sense that you only need to sacrifice it in order to waste a nonbasic land.
Crucible of world recursion is a nice thing too.

If you really wanna try something that runs a bit like this, try 3color control or EBA. I've had good results with EBA a few months ago.

Resolved turn 1 meddling mage = GG against Oath (at least most of the time)

[Victor]

Counter-lock//       16         

4 Force of will                 
4 Mana Drain
3 Counterspell
1 Twincast
4 Chalice of the void

Draw-tutor//       8

1 Fact or Fiction
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical tutor
1 Vampiric tutor
2 Cunning wish
1 Tinker

Removal//      9

4 engineered explosives
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Balance
1 Mind Twist
1 Disenchant

Win//      3
 
2 Morphling
1 Darksteel colossus

Land//      24

1 Stripmine
3 wasteland
4 Polluted delta
4 Tundra
4 Underground sea
7 Island
1 Sol Ring


The twincast is a good new to Vintage, A BLUE FORK!!! you can see an ancestrall or time walk duplicated only by two blue mana.

the crucible of wolrds is so interesting, wasteland is too common in this format and the double lands can get the graveyard easily. the fechlands are unlimited also. But I think its not indispensable.

[silvernail]

4 Force of will                 
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
1 Twincast
4 Chalice of the void

Draw-tutor//       8
4 Impulse
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical tutor
3 Cunning wish
1 Tinker

Removal//      8

3 engineered explosives
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Balance
1 Mind Twist


Win//      3

2 Morphling
1 Darksteel colossus

Land//      24

1 Stripmine
3 wasteland
4 Polluted delta
4 Tundra
4 Underground sea
7 Island
1 Sol Ring

i removed a bunch of cards that should be wish targets instead( disenchant, scrying, vamp tutor) and added impulses and a gifts ungiven, all of those should help card quality.

also removed the extra vanilla counterspells for misdiections because you might need to fight counterwars and another UU cost spell might be too slow to help you.

Changed EE to one less and one more plow because you dont need so many EE but plow will be more useful asa 3 of instead of 2.

board could look like:

1 vamp tutor
1 coffin purge
1 rebuild
1 echoing  truth
1 swords to plowshares
2 sacred ground
2 arcane labratory
2 cranial extraction
4 phyrexian negator

and it gives answers to many common deck types, but obviously you'd need to alter it to help with decks in your area.

[Razgreiz]

I tried playing keeper recently, didn't work out well, I think its because of my build, but I put in 4 duress's and it worked really good.  Also, G-shaman is pretty good against slaver match ups, or simply for blowing up other ppl's moxen since you don't have any.  Another thing that would be good if your not playing that much artifact mana would be null rod.  Brainstorm is an amazing draw spell, I think you should run 4.  I thought about it, and I am going to try and run as many cunning wishes as possible, since I see a lot of combo being played.  I don't know if it would be neccessary for you, but I think it will work out for me.  Keep in mind that you are playing a rather weak deck in the current metagame.  Your gonna have to think much differently than how keeper used to work.  I'm not sure if your gonna need those counterspells either, I think something like pithing needle would help you a lot more.  Pithing needle helps in many match ups.

[Jacob Orlove]

I changed your thread title because "NO8 KEEPER!!!" doesn't make sense, and uses all caps. "Powerless Keeper" clearly tells people what's in the thread, without shouting at them. Don't change it back again.