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Author Topic: [DECK] AC/DC  (Read 2843 times)
Scott_Limoges
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« on: August 27, 2005, 10:42:17 pm »

Due to the SCG deck list delay, I'm posting the AC/DC deck list played at SCG Chicago July 30th.  JP Meyer wrote a brief insight to the deck, which can be found here http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/event/10129.html

For your convenience, I've copied and pasted the MagicWorkstation deck list format, in the event you want to test without building the deck.

As I’ve stated in the above link, the deck skeleton is an affinity build with a dryad finish.  The abundance of artifacts plays a significant role in every aspect of the decks function: draw, mana production, and search.  Feel free to ask questions or add suggestions.

AC/DC - Aggro Control/Dryad Control



// Lands
    4  Seat of the Synod
    2  Polluted Delta
    3  Flooded Strand
    1  Tolarian Academy
    3  Tropical Island
    2  Underground Sea

// Creatures
    4  Quirion Dryad

// Spells
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Sol Ring
    4  Brainstorm
    3  Thoughtcast
    4  Merchant Scroll
    1  Gush
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Mystical Tutor
    1  Time Walk
    1  Fastbond
    4  Force of Will
    3  Misdirection
    1  Fact or Fiction
    1  Regrowth
    2  Sensei's Divining Top
    1  Chrome Mox
    2  Cunning Wish
« Last Edit: August 27, 2005, 10:46:08 pm by Scott_Limoges » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2005, 10:51:55 pm »

Scott, any chance you can give a brief summary of how the deck works? I'm goldfishing it a bit, but I'm not sure I understand exactly what it is supposed to do. Thanks.
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2005, 11:01:22 pm »

Two things:

First, could you post your sideboard, or at least the relevant parts, or the sideboard you would have built.  I grabbed what you sideboarded versus Dan Carp and filled in the blanks, but I'm pretty sure I have some things off.

Second, I was wondering how often you sit back and play conrol, and how often you went aggro-Dryad.  My tendency is to be minimalist until I can bring a Dryad online, but I realize it's probably enough to get a Dryad, Will it into uberness and then Time Walk for the win.  Is that your strategy, or do you play a Dryad early and grow it?
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2005, 09:16:24 am »

3x Thoughtcast? Don't you guys play Mana Drain over there? Why did you swap the Whispers for those? Sure they pitch to FoW, but you have to play crappy cards like artifact lands to make them worth it Sad
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2005, 09:22:05 am »

3x Thoughtcast? Don't you guys play Mana Drain over there? Why did you swap the Whispers for those? Sure they pitch to FoW, but you have to play crappy cards like artifact lands to make them worth it Sad

thoughtcast is one blue draw two cards with this deck.  this is why he is running thoughtcast. 

Test the deck you will see it works.
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2005, 10:25:59 am »

3x Thoughtcast? Don't you guys play Mana Drain over there? Why did you swap the Whispers for those? Sure they pitch to FoW, but you have to play crappy cards like artifact lands to make them worth it Sad
thoughtcast is one blue draw two cards with this deck.  this is why he is running thoughtcast. 

Test the deck you will see it works.
And11 has a valid point. Whilst thoughcast can give you 2 cards for 1 blue, it might just as well give your opponent 5 mana. This is one of the biggest reasons affinity doesn't work quite as well as in other formats.  I'm not saying Whispers is better / worse. You just need to have everything in the correct perspective before commenting on someone to test the deck. For all I know And11 did test the deck and had problems with the opponent draining his thoughtcasts? I think it is a very valid question.

Edit: If you read the link, you can read what Scott thinks about the Thoughtcasts.
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2005, 10:49:34 am »

Doyle: If only it was that simple. I agree that if Thoughtcast said "U: Draw 2 cards", it'd be great, but it doesn't, you know? I'm just asking if the obvious disadvantages of artifact lands and the fear of Mana Drain, are worth Thoughcast's inclusion. (I hope it made sense, English is not my 1st language. Anyway, you know what I meant if it isn't correctly put, thanks Smile)

Eddie: Actually no, I didn't test the deck, but I played Affinity a few months back and had the honor of being murdered after a Drain aimed @ my Thoughcast resolved. That particular deck had the same amount of backup as this one (4x FoW).

EDIT: Actually, I can't read the link because of a damn virus, that apparently hates StarCityGames Sad

Later...

« Last Edit: August 28, 2005, 12:56:29 pm by And11 » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2005, 01:04:11 pm »

Eddie: Actually no, I didn't test the deck, but I played Affinity a few months back and had the honor of being murdered after a Drain aimed @ my Thoughcast resolved. That particular deck had the same amount of backup as this one (4x FoW).

Actually he runs 7 pitch counters--theres 3 MisD in there too.  Getting the Thoughtcasts drained hasnt really been a big issue.  You rarely lead with Thoughtcast.  They're typically employed after you've already baited with Recall or some other bomb--at this point your opponent either doesnt have counters or you've got more than enough pitch magic to be assured that Drain wont resolve.  The deck does get wrecked by stax, hard.  And if they have Null Rod its even worse.  The post-board games arent quite as bad since scott brings in a metric ass-ton of artifact hate, but its still not pretty.  The deck is a beating on control though.  The Merchant Scrolls find him Ancestral in the early game and the tutors find him Fastbond/Will so he can typically go apeshit by turn 2/3.  Aside from the deck susceptibility to Null Rod/Shaman the biggest issue is the small number of threats.  One thing I found interesting in playing agiainst the deck though, is how quickly a Dryad can grow after the deck has blown its load.  There are many times that Scott has Willed on turn 2/3 w/out a Dryad in play, only to play one the next turn and then immediately grow it to some obscene size.  Its situations like that where the Tops are amazing.  You can really maximize the use of the off-color moxen to dig to business and you have a plethora of shuffle effects to reset the top of the library.  Fastbond is pretty sick in here for all the normal reasons, but its interaction with Top is what makes it absolutely retarded.  Im sure Scott can fill in more details, but those are my general impressions from testing against the deck.
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2005, 02:24:06 pm »

Scenario: I play Thoughtcast and my opponent Drains it. I then play Misdirection and change the target from Thoughtcast to ... Misdirection. Sure you'll get the two cards, but your opponent will still have an ass-load of mana in her next mainphase.

I probably should have double-checked that you cannot target the Drain itself, but I'm willing to take that risk Wink
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2005, 02:31:39 pm »

So what does the sideboard to this think look like?

And...have you ever thought about putting in Tinker/colossus?

I have tested this deck, and I believe it needs it. I just played against U/r Fish and he wrecked me because i couldn't get a dryad to grow fast enough. And 3 of my last opponents say Tinker/Colossus should be in here.
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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2005, 02:35:50 pm »

Scenario: I play Thoughtcast and my opponent Drains it. I then play Misdirection and change the target from Thoughtcast to ... Misdirection. Sure you'll get the two cards, but your opponent will still have an ass-load of mana in her next mainphase.

I probably should have double-checked that you cannot target the Drain itself, but I'm willing to take that risk Wink

I play Thoughtcast
You play Drain targeting Thoughtcast.
I play Misdirection to make Drain target the MisD instead.
MisD resolves.
Drain now targets the MisD, but whoops, theres no MisD on the stack so Drain is countered b/c of no legal targets and the opponent gets no mana.
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2005, 04:15:09 pm »

3x Thoughtcast? Don't you guys play Mana Drain over there? Why did you swap the Whispers for those? Sure they pitch to FoW, but you have to play crappy cards like artifact lands to make them worth it Sad

It runs Thoughtcast for the same reason as the deck used to run Gush.
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2005, 08:17:32 pm »

You have to run artifact lands, sure, but you're also running the full set of artifact acceleration, plus tops.  I don't know, I found the deck relatively strong but because all your draw is individually very weak, only getting 1 or 2 cards, that it's very easy to fizzle if you have a mediocre hand.
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2005, 08:27:23 pm »

My intentions in posting the deck is to inform everyone of the list due to SCG delay - not really to write a primer.  Godot (Jim Gaffney) posted a great insight of how the deck works. 

To comment further, the play skill required to pilot the deck is extremely high - something I have not mastered yet.  Many subtle play choices exist that can greatly effect the outcome of a game.  For example, chosing to play an artifact land or a fetchland after looking with Sensie's divining top and holding a thoughtcast and merchant scroll ->gush.  The greatest skill I've taken away from playing the deck is managing mana and maximizing the top deck.

Knowing this, the deck is essentially a combo deck with a creature kill.  I've encountered two types of play styles depending on the matchup.  As Jim stated, anything workshop is a difficult matchup.  Rich - A brief overview for the workshop match can be sumed up with two objectives: playing an early dryad and cunning wish for hurkyl's recall.  Due to its combo nature, the deck can explode after playing an EOT hurkyl's similar to other combo deck strategies.  The deck can be heavily metagamed in anticipation for workshop with pithing needles main deck in place of misdirection, as I did at Gencon.

A brief overview of the control matchup consists card quality and quantity strategies.  Maximizing mana to draw and improve top decks are priority - playing a dryad is less important.  After sifting through the deck - assembling your board and hand, play the yawgmoth's will.  You only need to cast dryad after the Y. will turn to win the following turn, as Jim acknowledged.

My sideboard has mainly been:

3 pithing needle (depending on the main deck)
2 duress
2 oxidize
1 berserk
1 ghastley demize
1 rushing river
1 echoing truth
1 hurklys recall
1 naturalize
1 tinker
1 darksteel colossus
« Last Edit: August 28, 2005, 09:04:23 pm by Scott_Limoges » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2005, 03:02:15 pm »

Long live Dryads!

It sounds like something that just came across my mind these few days (obviously mine is a very very unrefined one at that). My impression of the deck is that it's speedy with a similar feel to the pre-gush-restriction GAT.

(Disclaimer: I've not test the deck quite yet but I promise i'll try testing it asap. )

One question I've, however, is on the lack of  basic Island. While Blood moon is slow and havent seen much play, it would still be a game over for the deck. It also means that the deck would lose to random double wasteland starts. Would the deck have the space to fit at least 1 basic Island or would it compromise the game plan too much?

If it's up to me, I would probably take 1 merchant scroll out for it. But then again, I've not play w/ the deck just yet. I'll test w/ it realy soon.

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« Last Edit: August 29, 2005, 03:19:04 pm by eddavatar » Logged

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