Vintage Avant-Garde Combo

[forests failed you]

Okay, this is a new and kind of bizarre deck I’ve been working on for some time now.  I used to be extremely fond of playing Academy Combo decks before Tendrils of Agony was printed, and I revamped the main deck in an attempt to be as competitive as possible.  I realize that this is not a tier one deck, and I am not claiming that it is.  However this is my pet Vintage deck and it is actually quite good.  Just because it is my pet deck doesn't mean it isn't competative, I’ve won a few tournaments around Michigan playing with it.  I believe it has a lot of potential.

The Deck has a few really busted combos in it.  Firstly, Reclaim on an Isochron Scepter allows you to replay Time Walk or Time Stretch infinitely.  Secondly Mirarri plus Reclaim Walk lets you do whatever you want.  Also, the deck does not need to win all in one turn the way that TPS does, so you can drop your permanents and try to build up over time.  It is capable and often does get first turn Wins.

Also, this deck is extremely difficult to play and requires a lot of play skill and a lot of decisions.  It is fun to play because it is always a challenge to try and win with it.  It has the capability to win against Tier one decks. 

It also plays one main deck copy of Oath of Druids for Colossus or Witness to get back something busted that you Oath up.  In addition to that it can go infinite with Crucible of Worlds, Zuran Orb and Fastbond. 


Vintage Avant-Garde Combo

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Cunning Wish
1 Time Twister
1 Frantic Search
2 Gifts Ungiven

1 Enlightened Tutor

1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
2 Duress

1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Recoup
1 Burning Wish

1 Regrowth
1 Oath of Druids
1 Eternal Witness
2 Reclaim
1 Fastbond
1 Crop Rotation

1 Isochron’s Scepter
1 Mirarri
1 Darksteel Colossos
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Memory Jar

3 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Grim Monolith

1 Tolerian Academy
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Strip Mine


SB

1 Time Stretch
4 Xantid Swarm
2 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Braingeyser
1 Echoing Ruin
1 Cunning Wish
2 Pithing Needle
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Time Spiral

There is a lot of stuff going on here, and much of it will probably be familiar to Vintage players who played before Tendrils of Agony was printed.  Anyways, I thought some of you guys might appreciate seeing a completely different take on playing combo in type one, and a different way of looking at things. 

Before you rip the deck to pieces and say that it is completely awful test it out.  It is actually quite good if played correctly and probably at least as stable of a Deck, with respect to its ablility to win games in a tournament, as Belcher.  I can beat good players playing tier one lists with this thing, I actually think that it may have some potential, it has a lot of powerful things working in it.  If you have any constructive ideas on things I have missed I would love to discuss and hear them.

[Lunar]

Okay, this is a new and kind of Bazaar deck I’ve been working on for some time now

im going to say it before somebody else gets confused...

by bazaar I am guessing you dont mean bazaar of bagdhad (which is what I assumed until I looked at the list)

bazaar=different? odd by T1 standards?
He means "bizarre".
-Jaob

[Revvik]

it can go infinite with Crucible of Worlds, Zuran Orb and Fastbond

My favorite kind of infinite!    This may have to become my third deck.

[forests failed you]

Okay, I now know I do too much MTG stuff.  My spell checker actually altered a mispelled "bizarre" to capital letter "Bazaar" from me making decklists.  That is eerie. 

Anyways,
Yeah Revvik you should try it out it is fun as hell to play.  If you do let me know if you come up with anything new.  There is nothing more gratifying in Magic than casting Time Stretch, making a copy of it with Mirarri, and then regrowthing Time Stretch.  Stacking multiple turns is broken.

[Revvik]

Okay, I now know I do too much MTG stuff.  My spell checker actually altered a mispelled "bizarre" to capital letter "Bazaar" from me making decklists.  That is eerie. 

Anyways,
Yeah Revvik you should try it out it is fun as hell to play.  If you do let me know if you come up with anything new.  There is nothing more gratifying in Magic than casting Time Stretch, making a copy of it with Mirarri, and then regrowthing Time Stretch.  Stacking multiple turns is broken.

*sniff* it's plays like that one there that make me want to cancel plans for an night up with my girlfriend to playtest instead.

[Purple Hat]

*sniff* it's plays like that one there that make me want to cancel plans for an night up with my girlfriend to playtest instead.

it's thoughts like that that make me want to quit playtesting and go find a girlfriend. :lol:


Hale

[Xenoben187]

*sniff* it's plays like that one there that make me want to cancel plans for an night up with my girlfriend to playtest instead.

it's thoughts like that that make me want to quit playtesting and go find a girlfriend. :lol:


Hale

It's thoughts like that that make me want to teach my girlfriend to play magic.

[Jacob Orlove]

It's threads like these that make me want to give out verbal warnings. Stay on topic or posts will start to disappear.
-Jacob[/color]

[elias]

I actually like the idea behind the deck, with the myriad of interactions it has. I'm just concerned about:

1. Consistency.
I see you're running and using gifts. While this does give you access to your one-ofs, your engine doesn't give the GG result that other gift belcher builds do. It'd be easy to disrupt your multiple combos, especially since you only have 2 Duress, 1 Boseju and 2 FOW to force your threats through.

2. Focus.
I find this deck is trying to do too much. Try to focus on one aspect. This looks a bit too highlander-ish to me, and while that isn't necessarily bad, you need at least some sort of reundancy in your pieces.

as always, elias.

PS. try giving a bit of a primer on the detailed interactions and how fast you can tutor for them to help move the discussion along. We'd be extremely thankful.

[Revvik]

PS. try giving a bit of a primer on the detailed interactions and how fast you can tutor for them to help move the discussion along. We'd be extremely thankful.

As someone who has the full intent on keeping this deck built I would also appreciate that.

[forests failed you]

Well, the deck does play with almost every viable tutor in the format, including the very best one Gifts Ungiven.  Between the Eternal Witness, Regrowth, Reclaim, and Recoup you can tutor directly for any card you want in order to set up the combo.  Against Control I usually board out Oath of Druids, Witness, and Draksteel combo for Xantid Swarms.  Also, you have to bring in Pithing Needles because this deck is very susceptable to Tormod's Crypt, or Goblin Welder.  I'm just not exactly sure how to make room for more Duress or Force of Will.  I suppose you could cut Enlightened Tutor and Reclaim for the fourth Brianstorm and either a third Duress or Force of Will.

Other cards that were very close to making the cut were:  Grim Monolith and Power Artiface, Vaultaic Key, Candleabra of Tawanos, and Chromatic Sphere/

[Revvik]

I'll keep an eye out for a good slot for Candelabra, since most of the time I'll probably want Academy in play anyways.  Have you considered Balance at all?  You have listed 11 lands, 0 creatures that actually matter, and no real draw engine to speak of barring draw-sevens and draw-x spells - Balance might be an incredible card here.

Other card choices I don't think I can agree with:
2 Duress
2 Force of Will
3 Brainstorm

However, that's just my initial analysis.  I'll probably have well over a hundred playtest games before I start making changes.  I'm also wondering if Intuition wouldn't just be better in the Gifts Ungiven slot due to casting cost and the ability to fetch more than one of a single card.  But then I'm also lazy and think the foil Intuitions I already own are superior to the foil Gifts Ungivens I'd eventually have to acquire.

Elias: some of the Gifts Ungiven control decks in standard used a TON of singletons.  This is really no different, except for the better quality of recursion in Regrowth etc.

EDIT: The list is missing two cards.  I finally realized it when I built it last night, and subbed in two Force of Wills, but I'd still like to know what those two were.

Also, second turn Burning Wish for Time Stretch, follow up next turn with Timetwister, Duress, and then win on the final extra turn?  Never done that before.

[Kieranwolf]

This is an interesting list to me, especially because I've been running something like it at my local tournament scene. Here's the list:

Artifact Creature:
1 Darksteel Colossus

Artifacts:
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Crypt

Blue Spells:
4 Accumulated Knowlege
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Tinker
1 Echoing Truth
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Intuition
2 Cunning Wish

Green Creatures:
3 Eternal Witness

Green Spells:
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth

Black Spells:
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

Land:
4 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta/Flooded Strand
2 Mishra's Factory
2 Volcanic Island
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland

SB:
2 Duress
2 Fire/Ice
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Volcanic Geyser
1 Echoing Truth
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Intuition
1 Rack and Ruin
2 Pyroclasm
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Naturalize

My kill conditions are Collossus, Infinite Life (which a smart opponent will scoop to unless he also has an infinite combo or non-damage win condition to fall back on), A frickin 'UGE Mishra's Factory, or a giant Stroke of Genius. Also, there is an infinite turn lock with two Eternal Witness, a Time Walk, and Echoing Truth.

I've been liking the decklist so far, but right now the biggest problem is board control. I will be trying out around three Pernicious Deeds in the SB next time around, and I'm hoping that I have enough recur (Witness, Regrowth, Will) to handle blowing up my board as well.

I've also been considering dropping red in favor of white (mostly for balance and STP), but It would seem a bit redundant to me. STP is a great creature removal spell, but this deck has other solutions to weenies, and though an early tinker is a problem to it, It still has solutions like Truth and Ice if its lucky.

The mana base is iffy with a fifth color, and using City of Brass or Orchard would probably get me killed in the long run. I am considering adding Recoup, Burning Wish, and even Scepter, and 'draw seven' cards may be good (though I do not favor giving your opponent cards as well).

Otherwise, this build has gotten me close to 1st place on a few occasions, though it loses to UW fish far too often. It seems to do well against combo and control decks, though.

Any suggestions other than Deed for dealing with creatures/chalice/null rod/aether vial?

[forests failed you]

There is probably room in the list to pack some number of either rebuild or Hurkyl's Recall.  Rebuild, would be bad in my list because I rely on Isochron's Scepter;  perhaps some number of Hurkyl's would be good, as it can bounce problematic artifacts on an opponent's side of the table, while it can also make mana on your end.

[arj]

Seems like a fun deck.

Have you considered a bounce spell against mainly a chalice for 0?  Sure you have Cunning Wish but 3 mana seems like a bit when you have only 3 lands and all of them non-basic.

[Revvik]

With all the tutoring and minicombos in the deck, you can either find a maindecked Echoing Truth (if you wish to include one) or rely on the deck to give you a hand that doesn't care - for instance, in the only game where I didn't Duress away the Chalice of the Void or successfully Force of Will it (I ran 4), I drew an Oath combo hand - bringing up Colossus.

I was most successful in my area when I switched up the mainboard, bringing OUT the Oath combo and maindecking the three Xantid Swarms instead, but I play against a lot of control decks.
This deck CAN be amazing against Stax, since you drop a lot of permanents.  However, ya gotta be careful about what mana sources are in your hand when you're on the draw (duh...).

I ended up overall just dropping the deck, since my skill with combo is about as tuned as my fashion sense, and I was losing too often to bad players who attributed their win to their skill, and not my Wheel of Fortune drawing me the most unfortunate sets of cards ever.  Lesson learned: friends don't let friends play Revised...