The Mountains Win Again

[Myriad Games]

I've received many requests for this deck list, so here it is. This is indeed the same deck (within a few cards) as the deck that won the Mox Emerald at Myriad Games on August 13th. As the originator of this deck (developed and tested over the past 2 and a half months with the help of Chad Behre, Oliver Beaumont, Aaron Conole and many others). I'm super psyched to see it win another consecutive 32+ player tournament with a lot of good players! Here's the version that Ryan Durney won a Time Walk with on September 11th.

4x Mountain
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
4x Plateau
4x Wasteland
4x Mishra's Factory
1x Strip Mine
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Black Lotus
4x Goblin Vandal
4x Grim Lavamancer
4x Hearth Kami
3x Genju of the Spires
4x Pyroblast
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Disenchant
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Lava Dart
4x Magma Jet

Sideboard:
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
2x Rack and Ruin
4x Red Elemental Blast
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Pithing Needle
2x Tormod's Crypt

We'll look forward to everyone's feedback.

[orgcandman]

Hopefully I get this in, in time, but here's a brief description of how the deck works, and why it works so well, as well as card choices.

Ideally, this is a metagame deck for control heavy metagames. It could probably be tweaked for control/workshop heavy metagames, and possibly even aggro heavy metagames as well. It is NOT very good for a combo heavy metagame. Understand that if you're seeing combo all day long, then this is not the deck to run. If you're seeing workshops all day long, this may still have some maindeck changes to make before you can take it for wins.

Firstly, you'll notice the lack of blue. This was done for 2 reasons:

1 - Blue as a color, while powerful, costs a lot for it's effects. You pay a card and a life? We pay R. You pay UU? We pay R.
2 - Budget concerns, and the ease of playing red. Honestly, apart from baiting, and knowing combat math and roles, red is not a difficult color to play. Conversely, blue requires thought throughout the game. When to break a fetch, which threat gets responded to in which way, etc. Proper playing of a mana drain deck is insanely skill intensive.

Onto some card-by-card analysis:

Firstly, in the maindeck, you'll notice Goblin Vandal, and Hearth Kami as "beatsticks" which deal with artifacts. They're fast, they're cheap, and they help get around chalices (which was a problem card at first). Vandal comes down on turn 1, and starts eating moxen. No more moxen to eat? Fine, he'll lay down the beats.
Why not Mox Monkey? I'd rather pay to kill a sol ring / mana vault than . Wouldn't you? The fact that he'll hit 3sphere, and SoR for R also is gravy. Along the same lines, hearth kami is definately much better for his ability to keep you chalice friendly. Sure, in many cases, monkey would be better. But not when chalice 1 is screwing around. Further that by the fact that he's a clock, and while slow, still lays the smack down in conjuction with other small critters.

Lavamancer is mostly there for problems, and to make use of the spent cards. Especially spent Pyroblasts. Blast is essentially a reb that can be turned into 1 damage when it's "dead" Misdirection isn't a valid counter argument unless there's an old man / tog out. If so, oh well. If not, misdirection will do the same thing to pyroblast that it does to reb: Change the target to misdirection.

Swords is there mostly for 1 play: Tinker->colossus. It's also a bonus that it works well against oath and workshop decks that drop fatties.

5 strips is some good, and you'll notice that the fetch base is diverse enough to get around needles.

Genju is a finisher, and good for a few laughs

Magma jet is probably going to raise a few eyebrows, so I'll explain. Since the deck has no draw engine, other than the draw phase, it's goal is to reduce both player's hands to nothing while applying pressure by playing threats and forcing opponents decks to interact. However, in order to keep this up in the late game, card filtering is required. The scry on magma jet is usually what that 1R buys you (although 2 dmg isn't terrible either).

As for the board, the only thing that may need explanation is the pyrostatic pillars which keep combo in check if they resolve, and the lightning bolts, which can be bursts of help in problem aggro matchups.

[forests failed you]

Your list looks pretty neat.  The only thing I might suggest to you is:  Do you think Gorilla Shaman might be better than Goblin Vandal?  They both seem to perform similar roles, but I was wondering if some combination of Shamans might help your overall performance.

I don't doubt that Magma Jet is good in your deck.  I've lost hundreds of Birds of Parasise in Standard to that card!  Its a beating.

[Sgt. Pepper]

What does this deck do against Gifts? It seems to me like you only have 6 real threats against them ( Crypt & REB) which they can counter or deal with when they're ready to go broken on you. Both Null Rod and Chalice of the Void have been played a lot in (budget) aggro decks and are good against Gifts. Why is this deck not running either of them?

Also, why 2 Lava Dart? Lava Dart was great tech against Welders, but this deck already has 12 ways to kill him, not even mentioning Tormods Crypt.

[orgcandman]

What does this deck do against Gifts? It seems to me like you only have 6 real threats against them ( Crypt & REB) which they can counter or deal with when they're ready to go broken on you. Both Null Rod and Chalice of the Void have been played a lot in (budget) aggro decks and are good against Gifts. Why is this deck not running either of them?

Gifts is actually one of the two decks this was aiming to beat (and did so, at the two tournaments it won). Crypt + Reb aren't the only threats. Gifts is heavily
mana intensive, and needs it's artifact acceleration to be able to get the gifts engine working. Drain can't fuel them much in this matchup because the threats are all 1 and 2 cc. Additionally, vandals and kamis will be eating life totals.

And gifts won't just magically deal with blasts + crypt in game 1. They'll have to pay UU or 2 cards for each R that TMWA pays. And then, if it tries for the colossus kill, it needs to deal with STP. If it goes for the tendrils kill, it needs to make sure that crypt doesn't screw it's day up.

That said, I'm not trying to say that gifts is a cakewalk, but it's not an unfavorable matchup either.

Also, why 2 Lava Dart? Lava Dart was great tech against Welders, but this deck already has 12 ways to kill him, not even mentioning Tormods Crypt.

Lava dart was a metagame call for that particular tournament, because welders were expected. And they ended up showing up too. Lava dart is also good to
just let sit in the graveyard. Most people don't think about it 3 or 4 turns after you've used it, and will die to it after crypt damage, or just beats. But, yeah,
that was a metagame call.

[cosineme]

What does this deck do against Gifts? It seems to me like you only have 6 real threats against them ( Crypt & REB) which they can counter or deal with when they're ready to go broken on you. Both Null Rod and Chalice of the Void have been played a lot in (budget) aggro decks and are good against Gifts. Why is this deck not running either of them?

Also, why 2 Lava Dart? Lava Dart was great tech against Welders, but this deck already has 12 ways to kill him, not even mentioning Tormods Crypt.

actually, what you said is fairly inaccurate. this is a kind of hate deck. there are many more threats against gifts deck than you posted, for instance...

4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
4x Goblin Vandal
3x Genju of the Spires
4x Pyroblast
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Tormod's Crypt

Sideboard:
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
4x Red Elemental Blast
2x Tormod's Crypt

the mana base of gifts is fairly strong, but if you can waste once or twice, it will help a lot. goblin vandal first turn is effective against gifts, although shaman would be prferrable. 4x stp places colossus on the back burner and gives you enough time as the beatdown to win. i can see a competent player utilizing this build to great effect against gifts.

also, take a look at the sideboard, that is 9 spells that they can bring in.

[NWI Team_Zilla]

Have you tested Phyrexian Furnace instead of Tormod's Crypt?  It seems (unless I'm mistaken) that you are really only aiming to remove 1 or 2 cards from the game with Tormod's Crypt, when the Furnace can get rid of 1 for sure and over the coarse of several turns get rid of all of them, not to mention the cantrip affect attached to the sac. ability.  However, this is a aggro type deck, so I don't know how well it would do here.

Also how has the combination of Factory/Genju been working out for you??  Do they coexist well in this deck?

Just some questions.

[Myriad Games]

We originally ran Phyrexian Furnace but found that we had better things to do with the mana and wanted the ability to play 1st turn Crypt (particularly with REB backup) to hamper Yawg Will and all other manner of graveyard recursion. The Mishra's Factories are excellent beaters and I consider them 0.75 of a mana source for additional mana stability. The Genjus have always been amazing for me. I originally ran two and increased it to three in order to have the necessary means to accelerate the kill once the board has been controlled. The Mishra's Factories and Genju are each better in certain situations which is why we run both.

[Vegeta2711]

This looks eeriely similar to some mono red 'fish' lists some of us were kcicking around before. This raises the question of, do you even need white in the maindeck? You get plow and Disenchant. Neither of which are particularly good at the moment (Unless your metagame is generally different), so would it be so bad to go to mono-red?

As such I would heavily consider Gorilla Shaman and Rack and Ruin as potential options for the maindeck.

[Revvik]

Orim's Chant is also a pretty decent response to a Memory Jar activation, a Yawgmoth's Will, a Burning Wish, or just in general.

[xxcrucialocityxx]

have you heard of darksteel colossus? without swords you auto lose to it

i stared down colossus at least 4 different matches so i think white might be a little necessary

[Myriad Games]

This deck did indeed develop from Mono Red. Gorilla Shaman and Rack and Ruin are on our maindeck consideration list, depending on the metagame. Orim's Chant also made our list for consideration - we're still testing that as an option. We added the Swords after making Top 8 with two copies of the deck at a previous tournament in July. Our only major losses that entire day were to Darksteel Colossus, which we had no answer to, hence why we added white.

[JuJu]

I'm guessing some of you have seen the Ravnica Spoiler list, are you looking at any of the new cards for this? Or do you think this won't change post Ravnica.

Also, I believe that Gorilla Shaman might be better, but I'm not quite sure. Vandal is pretty hot..

[policehq]

With the 6 fetchlands and Magma Jet, would Sensei's Divining Top be a viable inclusion to maintain steady offensive draws?

Since you're worried about Chalice of the Void, could you use Viashino Heretic as artifact removal? I don't like that you have to sacrifice a bear to kill an artifact with Hearth Kami.

[cosineme]

top: i think that this is similar to u/r fish in that you would rather have quantity of draws, rather than card selection, due to the fact that you are playing...not so exciting cards. i think top would only slow you down, and the only use you would get out of it would be to avoid land when you hit 3-4 mana.

At the same time, due to the fact that it is a hate deck, I could see card selection being useful so you don't run into situations on the second turn when you discover that the following are quite useless...

4x Goblin Vandal
4x Pyroblast
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Disenchant
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Lava Dart

[Myriad Games]

We will be adjusting the deck to accommodate the post-Ravnica environment. We're considering Viashino Heretic. We've tested Sensei's Divining Top but have found it too slow. We have not entirely ruled it out for future use. I've found the that quality of cards drawn in a given matchup is more important than drawing a bunch of less effective cards.

[orgcandman]

...use Viashino Heretic...?

The problem with heretic is that he's 2 turns slower than the hearth kami. That being said, yes, he is indeed a wrecking ball, especially since he'll race a tinkered out colossus. However, I'm pretty sure that 2 turns is too slow. Hearth kami is great because at worst, he's a shatter for a mox, and at best, he deals some damage and blows up an artifact.

It's really the speed you're worried about in Type 1. If you had all the time in the world, Heretic would be amazing. As it is though, spending 2 turns doing nothing is pretty bad in type 1.

If you really want to replace hearth kami with something...probably goblin tinkerer is an ok replacement (although the extra turn stalled to eat moxen isn't so hot). He can eat more than 1 mox, and helps around chalice 1.

[Jank Golem]

First of all congrats on your win. I too played sligh at the Double Midnight Tourney, with a much different build however. I won my first 2 rounds but then went on a 4 round losing streak, (which I attribute to the lack of Junk Golems I has for people to sign). My build is mono red with artifacts, much like the one that placed 16th at Waterbury.

Sligh Fully Powered

Deck:
3 Jitte
3 Gorilla Shamen
2 Goblin Vandal 
3 Goblin Welder
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Genju of the Spires
3 Hearth Kami
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Shrapnel Blast
3 Price of Progress
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Pyroblast 
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet proxy
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
7 Mountain
 
Sideboard:
3 Tormods Crypt
3 Goblin Bombardment
4 Pyrokensis
3 Rack and Ruin
2 Bloodmoon

At this point I would change this list around a little. I would probably go –3 pyroblast, +1 Goblin Vandal +1 Wasteland and +1 Grim Lavamacer. Pyroblast is often not used for entire matches, I once did not use it throughout a 5 round tournament. Sligh can just not afford to keep it’s mana open hoping your opponent will cast a blue spell.
I do not believe the white splash is good for this deck. All that It gives you are STP and disenchant. STP Is good for DSC removal but I feel that goblin welder serves as a better solution. For taking out smaller creatures you have you bolts and lavamacers.
White does give you disenchant but that really only helps vs. Oath. By adding white you are forced to cut Price of Progress for a Sub-Par burn spell-Magma Jet. I also think Pyrostatic Pillar must be maindecked. It also is part of the reason I run moxen, the ability to go first turn mountain mox pillar is amazing. It also lowers your opponents life total allowing you to burn them away.
 I also considered Mishra’s factory but with the list I run I just do not have enough red mana sources. I also run Jitte in my list because of the vast quanties of mana accel I run. With that all said good luck with your deck.

Thoughts?

Strikethrough removed. Thanks for getting back on topic.  - Bram

[orgcandman]

First of all congrats on your win. I too played sligh at the Double Midnight Tourney, with a much different build

This isn't sligh. Sligh used light control elements to make sure it's threats would constantly be attacking. While this does do that to some degree, it's nowhere near the same kind of control that sligh used.

At this point I would change this list around a little. I would probably go –3 pyroblast, +1 Goblin Vandal +1 Wasteland and +1 Grim Lavamacer. Pyroblast is often not used for entire matches, I once did not use it throughout a 5 round tournament. Sligh can just not afford to keep it’s mana open hoping your opponent will cast a blue spell.

I'm sorry, but if you didn't have anything to use the pyroblast on, and you were running lavamancers main, then you were misplaying. And I find it hard to believe that in a blue based metagame you were unable to hit at least a brainstorm.

I do not believe the white splash is good for this deck. All that It gives you are STP and disenchant. STP Is good for DSC removal but I feel that goblin welder serves as a better solution. For taking out smaller creatures you have you bolts and lavamacers.

No, welder is terrible in a deck with no artifacts to weld around. He's merely a 1/1 for R that may or may not get something done. STP will always do something, even if that something is just screwing up combo's math and nuking your own hearth kami to get a win in (it's happened before). It's good in workshop aggro matchups, it's good in the oath matchups, and it's good when a welder sits across from you. Swords doesn't say remove target welder, it says remove target creature.

White does give you disenchant but that really only helps vs. Oath. By adding white you are forced to cut Price of Progress for a Sub-Par burn spell-Magma Jet.

Uhh...disenchant takes out all sorts of things, oath, pithing needle, chalice, SoR, etc. This deck hates on artifacts man.
Price of progress is ass when people are running tons of basics. They can just break fetches in response.
Magma jet is definately NOT subpar. It will filter away bad draws. When does PoP do that? It may nab an extra 4 life or so, but sirocco probably would too, and people don't play that.

No offense meant here, but your deck is completely different. It always wants to be the aggro deck with some utility answers to situations. Our deck just wants to ride any ol' threat while heavily disrupting the opponent. They sound like they'd be the same...but they're completely different.

-Aaron

[Jank Golem]

Sorry my last post was off topic, I did not feel like it was necessary to post another Sligh/RW aggro control deck. That being said back to your deck. I still disagree with the white splash in this deck. It seems to me there are better colors to splash if you are going splash a color, however I would keep it mono red. White just does not give you enough cards to use. You are running 2 white cards, Disenchant and STP, lets take a look at both of them.

STP: This card is very versatile taking out small threats like welders and larger ones like DSC. The one is issue with this card is to play it you must play white. Direct damage while not as good as STP can be used, so you do not have to splash white. STP really is not that good against oath, you are much better off with something like spawning pit or claws of gix. It just does not make since to me running 4 cards just in case your opponent goes broken with 1 card. All in all STP is good in the deck, but Lighting bolt can usually get the job done without forcing you to play white.

Disenchant: This a card I disagree with much more. It can get rid of enchantments which no red card can do but, how many enchantments are really played that much? Oath of Druids is but you have better cards against them, In the Eye of Chaos is played but you already have pyroblast for that. Lets face it, Circle of Protection: Red does not see much play in T1. If you are looking for artifact removal Red is the way to go. Cards like Pulverize, Crash, Rack and Ruin, Goblin Vandal, Viashino Heretic, even Shatter all do this. If you really feel you need the enchantment removal you are probably better off splash green for Naturalize and other green goodies.

Another card I disagree with is magma. Lets face it red sucks at drawing cards. If you want to draw cards you are better off with mask of memory, sensei’s divining top or other artifact draw engines. If you are looking for a burn and draw spell magma jet is your only choice. I still feel you can not have both without running subpar cards, but that is just my opinion.

I also notice you are not running balance or wheel of fortune, white and reds only restricted cards. I can see not running wheel it has a rather high converted mana cost, and can give your opponent an advantage. Balance seems like it must be included. This deck can drop cards from its hand like crazy and runs very few lands, all of which sets up balance to be amazing. Once again congrats on winning and good luck with the deck.

[xrobx]

Myriad and the other originators of this deck, first, congratulations on finishing with high results!!  It's great to know that somewhere out there, people are still developing decks that don't revolve around the same 40-50 cards that every other deck in the format has   (I'm not suggesting that this is a mistake, it's quite proven that certain cards need to be in certain decks, as they are the most optimal card for the said spot).

That said, I'm quite curious to your selection of color, and card choices.  It seems that you run red only for StP and disenchant; two great cards, no doubt.  However, the overall synergy of white as a color, versus another color, doesn't seem to be the most obvious choice at first glance.  I don't know how much you frequent TMD or vintage tournaments in general, but you may or may not have heard of a deck called RGBeatz/RGHate/etc.  I did a great deal of testing with that deck, and played it in 3 or 4 vintage tournaments, all averaging quite well, but unfortunately it didn't win any of these tournaments.  The primary downfall of the deck was lack of a draw engine (which red decks have suffered since the beginning of time).  Although green does add a draw engine, it isn't all that good, and I found adding blue took away from the synergy of the deck.  However, with reds new "artifact destruction/draw a card" card, we could see sligh/aggro variants doing better in the future.

Seeing as I mentioned RGBeatz, I wanted to ask you if you tried this, and if so, how were your results?  Did you find the deck played much differently than yours does??  RG is very oriented around fast creature beats, with sufficient hate to back it up.  It gains tempo very quickly, and has viable sideboarding options for every matchup.  In comparison to your build;

-Naturalize serves the exact same purpose as disenchant
-Swords is hard to replace.  It is one of a kind, and as such, is the power behind white (as is balance).

Thus, on a card by card analysis, you'd be losing the ability to remove creatures from the game; quite important.  However, the speed and aggro elements you gain from adding green as a color are quite vast.  Green allows the addition of:

-Rancor; one of the best weenie aggro cards ever printed.
-Naturalize = disenchant
-Artifact mutation is tremendous against darksteel idiots
-Oxidize and various other 1cc enchantment/artifact destruction utilities (hell, even hull breech/brooch or whatever)

These are the primary utility differences, and on paper, it appears green simply has more to offer than white; minus the swords.  I understand the importance of swords to plowshares, as it is quite obviously the best creature removal spell ever printed.  So then, is this just a question of swords to plowshare versus adding any other color to the deck?  And doesn't that then say something about the power overall of StP in the format of vintage?

Your thoughts and concerns are greatly anticipated.  Cheers.

Added thought : Balance seems like it really could help you out here.  Although your deck is designed around aggro/control, and generally you don't want to be giving up creatures, you can often benefit from a well timed balance; hence it's restriction.  Yes, it can be a dead card, but it can also trade 1 card for 2, 3, 4, or more cards.  It could show added benefits to your disruption plan as well.

[madmanmike25]

Why doesn't everyone realize that the swords are what makes this deck work??  IMHO this just seems so much better than R/G.  The STP is not just for colossus, have you ever tried casting artifact mutation on World Gorger Dragon?  Dragon is one of the constant type 1 decks out there in the meta, while it will not always place top 8, its presence is felt.  STP is instant, easy to cast, and effective as hell, let's please put this argument to rest.

Balance would only work if you are relying soley on genju, plus its kind of tough to put in random one-of's in a deck with no tutors.  This deck is about consistency it would appear.

p.s. wow, u put genju in a type 1 deck.  good for you!

[LouGodKingofDustBunnys]

I played against this deck in the finals of the Double Midnight tourney (i even wrote a report). Anyone who is talking about taking white out of this deck hasn't tested it against Gifts, Slaver or Dragon. I played Dragon at the tourney, and this deck CRUSHED me. I couldn't keep a Swarm on the table, my Forces got blasted, disenchant kills my Animate spells, and in the final game of the tourney, my Dragon got Sworded with the CIP on the stack. Think about the Slaver match up...your welders get Darted or Jetted, you Artifact beasts get Plowed, your counters get Blasted, and Yawg Win is the suck if you have nothing in your Yard. I don't even want to be into the MD Gifts matchup. IF you test this deck, it will be become obvious...White is necessary. Test this deck, learn it, understand it...or IMHO, you will be seeing it Top 8 again and again.

I'm not saying that this deck is going to "break the format", but in the hands of a good player, it is a real contender.

[xrobx]

Think about the Slaver match up...your welders get Darted or Jetted, you Artifact beasts get Plowed, your counters get Blasted, and Yawg Win is the suck if you have nothing in your Yard. 

This is called hate.  There are "hate" cards in magic, hence, a card that is extremely efficient against another card.  Obviously, IF you have the necessary hate cards in hand, you can hate out the cards you're meant to hate out.  The problem here is not simply in the cards being used; it is more in the way they are used.  If you cannot effectively draw in a deck, anything above and beyond turn 4 or 5 is topdecking and relying on topdecking a hate card for the specific use of counteracting another card is not plausible in any shape or form.  Sure, you may draw the card, but can you consistantly draw the effective hate card against the right deck?  This is the evident flaw that is present in most any hate decks.

IF you test this deck, it will be become obvious...White is necessary. Test this deck, learn it, understand it...or IMHO, you will be seeing it Top 8 again and again.

White is necessary for two cards, as there are only two cards being played that are white.  That is to say that this deck is entirely red, with the exception of StP and disenchant.  Why is white so necessary, is it simply because of the brokeness of StP? 

Dragon is one of the constant type 1 decks out there in the meta, while it will not always place top 8, its presence is felt.  STP is instant, easy to cast, and effective as hell, let's please put this argument to rest.

Out there in whos meta??  Certainly not mine (Toronto), and I don't feel any kind of presence or feel ominous to its sudden appearence, but on to the main relevant point; StP.  There is no "argument" about the power of StP, or its usefulness, and there never has been.  I don't know what you've been smoking, but I'd definatly like some.  Swords has been and always will be the best creature removal available in the format.

Balance would only work if you are relying soley on genju, plus its kind of tough to put in random one-of's in a deck with no tutors.  This deck is about consistency it would appear.

Balance has absolutely no direct correlation with genju, nor effective synergy with genju.  It's not tough to put "Random one-ofs" in a deck with no tutors, it's quite simple.  Random one-ofs are not things like balance.  Balance is by no means random, as it is 1 of the 2 playable white cards in the format.  It is also not random in the sense that it is planned out when you play it, and it is in the deck for a reason.  Adding 1 card in 60 is a very VERY minimal alteration, and only effects this decks consistancy issues by 1.6%, hence, theoretically this card will never cause you to draw differently than you would without running this card.  Yes, probability of drawing cards is altered, but again, its so minimal that it is irrelevant.

[nataz]

hello all,

on the topic of splash/splash colors.

Anyone who is talking about taking white out of this deck hasn't tested it against Gifts, Slaver or Dragon.

-agreed

I was aware of the initial development of the deck (as was just about everyone who plays in NH) when it was still mono-red, but to be honest, I almost completely wrote it off. Back then it was much heavier on burn, and techy metagame cards like maindeck p.o.p., and vortex.

It wasn't until I actually played the deck against Ryan 1st round of myriad that I actually took it seriously, and much of that respect came out of the addition of white into the deck. Where as before all that the pyoblasts were protecting were red threats, now the pyroblasts can be used to protect answers. The addition of white, and the answers that it offers to certain mata-game problem cards, turned the deck from a bad aggro-deck, into a really decent agrro-control deck.  

example:

vs mono red: Oath up a creature and win before they can burn you out.
vs red w/ white splash: Cast Oath, and protect it from MD discenchant backed up with 4-8 ppyroreb effects, then Oath up a creature, and protect it for three turns from STP backed with 4-8 pyro/reb effects.

This may invlove counter wars over my card draw, and STP itself, as well as the need for multiple duress effects to help clear the way.

yay for the death of the race, and the start of interaction.

However, that being said, although the deck does need a second color, I'm still not sure that a) white is the correct color to add, and b) even if you keep white you need multiple maindeck discenchant.

You need to splash another color for control effects, I'll give you that, but I'm still not convinced that white is the color. What I am convinced of though is that green is NOT the color you want to splash.

You don't need more aggro effects, why would you ever splash for rancor? This deck does just fine at reducing the opponents life total. Chant does = nnaturalize and oxidize ddoesn'thit enchantments. Also, red can take care of artifacts anyways, there really iisn'tany need to splash for that.

The only excellent card that green has to offer that white can not mirror is artifact mutation which would be better then swords vs random large artifact fat, and better then seal or even sacred ground vs prision.

so ah, yay for that.

one card that I have been trying to get dDanto test in this is p-furnace.

p-furnace main instead of crypt: 2 reasons, you can dump free mana into it during your opponents end step continuously, rather then doing a one shot deal with crypt, and second because at the very least it can cycle. Crypt may be better in the board, but if you are going to run it main, it sucks that it could very well be a dead draw.

and for gods sake, gorilla shaman. I know that you guys like the goblin, but vs anything but stax shaman is much better. At least with the addition of shaman I'd feel better about you guys not running null rod or chalice.  

 


 

[madmanmike25]

@xrobx:
Dragon is one of the constant type 1 decks out there in the meta, while it will not always place top 8, its presence is felt.  STP is instant, easy to cast, and effective as hell, let's please put this argument to rest. -me

"Out there in whos meta??  Certainly not mine (Toronto), and I don't feel any kind of presence or feel ominous to its sudden appearence, but on to the main relevant point; StP.  There is no "argument" about the power of StP, or its usefulness, and there never has been.  I don't know what you've been smoking, but I'd definatly like some.  Swords has been and always will be the best creature removal available in the format."

"Balance has absolutely no direct correlation with genju, nor effective synergy with genju.  It's not tough to put "Random one-ofs" in a deck with no tutors, it's quite simple.  Random one-ofs are not things like balance.  Balance is by no means random, as it is 1 of the 2 playable white cards in the format.  It is also not random in the sense that it is planned out when you play it, and it is in the deck for a reason.  Adding 1 card in 60 is a very VERY minimal alteration, and only effects this decks consistancy issues by 1.6%, hence, theoretically this card will never cause you to draw differently than you would without running this card.  Yes, probability of drawing cards is altered, but again, its so minimal that it is irrelevant."

So STP is the best creature removal, im glad we agree.  I guess in Canada they dont ever play dragon?! ok...... Maybe i made that deck up or you should try a meta with more than six players...  Genju is not a creature so balance wont affect it, that is the correlation i was thinking of.  Note that I was against putting in balance in this deck as it has too many creatures.  As for what i have been smoking, its called REALITY and you should take a hit.

[Englishman_in_NH]

Seeing as I am one of the people that have been helping Dan @ Myriad refine the deck over the months as it has turned from mono red aggro burn to red white control-aggro I thought I would give my 2 penny's worth. I stress the control first as the aggro kill is secondary to stifling the opponents plays. I played Ryan in the swiss and the top 8. I lost 0-2 in both playing control slaver. I put my chance's at winning the match-up at 20% at best. My main hope is tinker colossus and defend against swords to plowshares, not that plausible when they have reb/pyroblast maindeck.

The deck is deceptively good; it looks like a pile because, just like the initial fish builds it wins through slowing an opponent down, so that you can kill them because they only have one or two actual kill cards. Good examples are Gifts (DSC or Burning Wish - Tendrils) and Slaver (typically Pentavus, Trike and maybe DSC). If you stifle there mana through wastes and artifact kill, be it vandal or shaman - although I have to say I prefer vandal, as it kills of artifact creatures, something the monkey cannot do - you slow down Gifts or Slaver to developing only one mana a turn. Suddenly your two/three damage a turn will be a quick enough clock. Many decks will stabilize if at all at 4-7 life, within damage range from a few creatures or a burn spell or two. The magma jets are important to filter away excess land, as well as to kill small critters. There are not many creatures right now with three toughness that necessitate bolt in that slot instead.

To the people that are suggesting red green beats as a better alternative. By all means play that deck, however understand that they are not really the same archetype. RG is an aggro deck that packs hate to give it a chance to steal a few turns to win with combat damage. This deck is almost a prison deck, in that is slows down the opponent and disrupts/destroys most of the artifacts that an opponent plays. In the current NE metagame this is a strong play. It has favourable matchups with Gifts, Slaver, Workshop Aggro, post board with Stax, and has incidental hate against Dragon and CA. Its one main problem match-up is ritual combo, not a popular archetype in our area.

To those that suggest another splash color these decks have already been tried to varied success. Blue is UR fish, RG is an acknowledged hate deck good in certain metas. Only BR seems unplayable, mostly because black is almost as weak as white minus Will, Tutors and Duress, not excellent to a aggro control strategy.

We have stuck with white, partly because it had an element of surprise, but mostly because white has an untapped number of situational card that are excellent sideboard choices for a deck that needs answer to certain threats that red cannot deal with. As all we are looking for is answers to certain questions; so far we have found that white has these answers. If we find they are not good enough answers or other colors have better ones, we will certainly test out a change in splash color for the deck, but until that time, will will continue to mine long forgotten white cards for this wonderfully quirky deck.

[Zomar]

I put this deck together today and have played it to success so far. I have a few questions concerning the sideboard though:

First off, is there any particular reasons why the pithing needles are in the sideboard or are they just a multiuse hate card?
Second, what sideboarding plan do you suggest against control decks which utilize the graveyard (ex: CS and Gifts)?

Also not like it really matters (besides pithing needle, which would be a sad play anyway) but 3 of each fetch land is better than 4 and 2 right? ...

Anyways I'm looking forward to smash face with the DCI Arena Genjus I just bought 

[Jank Golem]

I think the black splash is worth looking into with this deck. It gives you duress, withered wretch, mesmiric fiend,Chains, Phrexyian negator(maybe), and broken stuff like tutor and will. The main resong I like black is for it's graveyard and hand hate. It also gives you a draw engine, night's whisper. If you ran chains you could also run dark conifident, the life lose may hurt you too much though. In the end black just gives you more answers then white.

[Englishman_in_NH]

I'm sorry, but I have to ask, how does red/black deal with DSC, this is the MAIN reason for white, it gives an answer to the monstrosity that is the 11/11 trampler. If black had an acceptable, cheap answer, other than trying to rely on edict like spells, which don't always hit what you want, it may be a viable option. Until then I do not want to play a deck that rolls to Gifts and most builds of Slaver.