[Deck and Primer] Hounds 'R Us

[Xman]

Hounds 'R Us
   
This deck was created and modified mainly by Peter Van Duyne and Exton Howard (Xman).  It is based off an idea one of the local players in Tucson, Arizona had in his Dragon deck.  Simon McLeod and Adam Illian (Dralock) helped with the deck as well.  Also, I feel I have to put this in.  Do not, whatever you do, try to budget this deck.  It just won’t work.  Adam helped write the primer, working on the Match up analysis section.

The concept behind hounds is to drop a threat, and force your opponent to deal with that threat.  Meanwhile, you have a fistful of counters and an uncounterable draw engine that moves you through your deck faster as the game progresses.  It is an Aggro-Control deck that works, and we have won a few moxen with it.  We have placed well in other tournaments with it, getting high in each one.

Also, I urge people to try this deck before dissmissing it as a bad deck.

Without Further Adieu, the list

3x Wild Mongrel
3x Vampire Hounds
4x Squee, Goblin Nabob
3x Intuition
1x Wonder
2x Deep Analysis
Rx Ancestral Recall
Rx Demonic Tutor
Rx Time Walk
Rx Yawgmoth’s Will
4x Mana Drain
4x Force of Will
3x Mana leak
1x Echoing Truth
3x Pernicious Deed
Rx Mox Ruby
Rx Mox Pearl
Rx Mox Jet
Rx Mox Sapphire
Rx Mox Emerald
Rx Black Lotus
Rx Sol Ring
4x Bazaar of Baghdad
3x Underground Sea
3x Tropical Island
4x Island
4x Polluted Delta

Sideboard
1x Pernicious Deed
3x Ground Seal
3x Stifle
2x Hurkyl's Recall
3x Arrogant Wurm
3x extra slots (Choke/Mis-D/etc)

How do I play this pile that you call a good deck?

This deck is a simple aggro control deck, with early game gaining board control, dropping a threat, and then countering everything your opponent tries to play.  By doing this, you remove the control ability from other control decks, leaving you with a solid game and you are usually able to answer most things your opponent tries to cast.

How you play this deck.  When you get down to it, it is really simple.  You want to get off an intuition for 3 Squee as early in the game as possible, so you can use the bazaar without worrying.  An Ancestral every turn is good I hear.  Find a threat, and drop the threat on the table (preferably a Vampire Hounds), and then just run at your opponents throat, dropping Squees and Wonder to the yard as needed.  It can immediately put them on a short term clock as you are able to make the Vampire hounds grow into a 10/10 beater without much problem.  It is the same with the Wild Mongrel.

Once you have a threat on the table, drive straight at your opponent, forcing them to deal with the threat, or they lose.  It happens pretty quickly, and as soon as they defeat one threat, you are able to drop a second threat, and keep going.  I found that during a turn, I would frequently have 10+ cards in my hand, but by the end of the turn I would almost always be down to 7.

Another factor is you should be able to achieve card advantage and board control by turns 3-6, using Bazaar and the amount of control in this deck.  If you are not completely online by turn 6, you should have mulliganed, and gone for something else, but hindsight is 20/20.

To achieve the win, you really only need one of the 2 hounds on the table, a couple counters, and some squees.  This is pretty easy to set up.  Time Walk helps immensely to do it.

Why did you choose such bad cards with such good cards?

Vampire Hounds – This is an interesting card that Peter found, and told me to go look up.  It is a very solid card that is easy enough to be overlooked, but when combined with the core of our draw engine, it becomes an amazing creature to use.  The card immediately jumps from a 2/2 to a 8/8 after a single Intuition for squees, or more if you get a wonder in your hand.

Wild Mongrel – We put this in because we needed another creature that could handle everything that would be thrown at this deck, also with an undetermined size like Vampire Hounds.

Pernicious Deed – This card is sick, and helps to go a long way to board control.  The deck has very few main decked answers to creatures like Platinum Angel, and if your opponent is smart, he will then not give you another drain target to deed for an amazing amount number.  We thought about disk, and the cards are almost interchangeable.  But Deed works.  Also, echoing truth works to return problems like the plat.  In heavy workshop meta, I guess you could replace deed with disk, though I believe deed is superior to the disk.

Wonder – This is in there as it works in synergy with both the hounds, and it works with the bazaar if you have to toss it to the ‘zaar.  Besides, a Flying Hound is just plain cool.

Deep Analysis – works two ways in this deck.  If you don’t have the squees in rotation with the ‘zaar, you can then toss this to the ‘zaar or toss it to mongrel before the attack, mainly to increase the power and the amount of cards in your hand.

Match Up Analysis

This deck has a good match up vs. control, absolutely destroying most control decks.  This is because as soon as you drop your threat, you do not have to cast another spell that matter.  This removes control from your opponent’s deck, allowing you to have a fistful of counters in your hand to protect your threat.

Vs Fishy & Agro/control:

2 deeds an echoing truth and wonder are all-stars against fish and aggro control. Post sideboard they will bring in needles which hurt you a lot, but your deeds are far superior. You have 5 separate activated abilities they need to shut down to ruin your deck, none of which are artifact-based, so you should do well in this match up. Watch out for swords to plowshares, you might want to have misdirection in the side if you see the mighty removal of the ages. Watch out for wasteland, and make sure you use every card of deep analysis you can.

Vs Workshop aggro, 5/3, Guilded Claw:

It’s a race for permanent control. Your bazaars are going to be tentative at best, so set yourself up for a quick and decisive win. Walk, will, recall, intuition and a canine or two on the table are going to be your best bets. This is a hard match up, especially if they are running swords on top of duplicants. Deed your way in to some mana, then set up a double-walk for the win if possible. You are going to be able to fly over them and if you can bring their life to zero, you can tutor for truth and get rid of an angel (if necessary) for the win. Guilded Claw presents a special problem because of its inclusion of razormane masticore. This guy is a house against little guys like canines and can seriously destroy your card advantage. Draw quickly, draw often, tutor quick, this is going to be a race.  This is one of the two worst match ups that are commonly encountered.

Vs Control Slaver

Do not, and I repeat, do not let them slave you. Otherwise you should have a good game. Bazaar is your friend, and deep analysis should be avoided. This is a drain-on-drain game but their mana targets are a lot more potent, so do not overextend yourself in to a situation where you can let them have free mana. A well placed deed, and possibly siding in DarkBlast when it becomes legal will help out tremendously. Your aggressive side will help as well, being that slaver doesn’t pack much removal that deals with toughness greater than 1.

Vs Gifts.

This match up is the same as slaver, but the high count of misdirection makes deep analysis work against you. Fortunately most gifts decks do not use strip effects, so you can count on having a good draw engine the entire game.

Vs Dragon

The dragon game is hard. Get a deed on the table as soon as possible and start beating down while you can. Force and drain will help a lot, but deed is your real star. Echoing truth is thrown in for extra support pre-sideboard. Post sideboard the match is quite different, as you can bring on all of your grave hate and proceed to smash face against their mostly creatureless setup. Beware of the tog transformation.

Vs Doomsday & Death wish

Both of these decks use tutors that help you win. Hold your counters for recall, will and rebuild while you smash face with your creatures. Vs doomsday specifically, grab your recall with vampiric (an inclusion if you see a lot of duress) in response to their doomsday and win the game right there. Vs death wish just use your standard TPS game. If you see a lot of storm based combo, arcane labs will be great for the side.

Vs TPS

Ah TPS, the amazing wonder-dog of combo. Counter their draw and win.

Vs Stax/prison

This is probably the worst match up. You have very few permanents beside land and moxen and a good stax player will make sure your are completely disrupted. Your main draw engine is actually negative card advantage without squee. Deed and mana drain are the keys to victory in this match up, but BG will probably be hard to get with their waste lock, so throw down as soon as possible, and make sure you do not miss your land drops.

[nataz]

quick questions,

why leaks over circular logic? It seems like they would almost always be as hard of a counter as leak, and they also cost less with a mong or a bazaar active.

[madmanmike25]

As someone who has played against Adam and his hounds deck, maybe I can answer that one.  Turn one:  sack land(or blue land) mox, go.  Mana leak in hand is better than circular early game and I feel that fact is more important to determine who will win the late game.

My comments:  21 mana sources.  I have seen Adam get mana screwed several times or have to mulligan.  Has mana crypt tested that badly?  Does the faster intuition not offset the potential damage?  Or is 3 damage a turn simply too risky..or 3 deeds just make it obsolete?

How has that lone Echoing truth been holding out?  With only one tutor, is it deserving of a maindeck slot?

Maybe take out the Wurms in the SB for pithing needle(wastland) a safe bazaar is a happy bazaar.  It seems 3 deeds should do it against fast aggro like fish type decks(does anyone still put merfolk in by the way???)

Otherwise I have always liked the deck although it did have some difficulty against my 5/3 but 4 drains/4 forces are always powerful to have.  Good job with the decklist/primer.

[cosineme]

Why not just play tog...

or even the italian tog version running bazaar. Essentially you are running the same list, but instead of tog, you are running "worse" creatures. actually, on second thought, that is exactly what you are doing. you can just run 4x tog, and cut the rest of the creatures, freeing up additional slots.

[Luiggi]

I think another appropriate question is: why run this over Bazaar Madness? As far as control decks go you could play something like Tog, as cosineme suggested, and if you wanted to run a more aggro Bazaar deck then Madness is also pretty good, with more creatures and more pressure. I'm not dismissing the deck as bad or anything, but I just wanted to ask that question, which I think is a valid one when considering what to sleeve up.

Luiggi

[Disburden]

This deck is friggin cool. I like it a lot, good job X-man on the post.

I agree that pithing needle would be better in the sideboard. It helps you against Slaver, although you said the matchup wasn't unwinnable. I still think needles would help your, "Just dont get slaved" plan. Also, as mentioned, wasteland can make your day suck.

I think one of the reasons to play this over Madness is the simple fact that you run drains, madness doesn't. Mana Drain is so good right now that anything that runs is seems to have an advantage, I wouldn't need another reason to run this deck over madness other than the superior disruption.

[Xman]

@ Nataz,

We tried testing circular logic, and it didn;t flow well in this deck.  It made you hold off using bazaar,a nd even with mongrel, sometimes you have Vampire Hounds in play, which means circ doesn't work as well.  Circular Logic was actually the first choice Peter and I used in this deck, and discarded it for leak almost immediatly.

@ Cosineme,

Then don't play this over tog.  I actually love playing Psychatog.  I really enjoy playing Drain based decks, with Control Slaver, Hounds, and Tog as my primary drain decks of choice.  This plays differently than tog and is a pretty damned fun and effective deck to play.  Try it.

@ madmanmike,

Your right.  I should fiddle with the list a little more to get a couple more mana sources in there, maybe side the truth for another leak or another land.  Dunno offhand.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

@ Luiggi,

Bazaar Madness is a good deck.  In fact, it beats this hands down.  We never figured out a fix for it.  But madness is a deck that we don't see much anymore.  And if you run into it, whats one loss in a swiss round.  yea, not as high a seating, but whatever.  This deck plays differently than bazaar madness, allowing just one creature to go the distance, with the appropriate support.  Hounds usually forces other control decks off their favorite "Control" role and forces them to become a beatdown deck.  THis usually allows for them to lose ASAP.

I have played madness, and this deck is just simply more fun to play and better for a heavy control metagame.

@ Disburden,

Thank you

Actually, when Adam wrote the matchup analysis, he was being a little to conservative with how control decks work against this.  This deck owns a deck like slaver.  I think I have tested the matchup and almost every time I have run into slaver in a tournment with hounds, I have rarely lost.  I lost 1 match to slaver b/c it went turn 4 plat in one, and in game 3, went turn 1 tinker plat.  Aside from that, it usually wiuns fairly easily/  Keep in mind, slaver needs to drain, and once you get a threat on the table, you can stop casting spells until they deal with the threat.  Keep Bazaaring away, so you will have a fistfull of counters, a couple draw spells, and another threat so when they finally get rid of my little doggie, a new one is on the table.

Also, this is a fun and effective deck to play.  Please, before you write this off, just try this deck.  You all  have said the same things Adam, Simon, and a couple others said first time they saw this deck.  Just try it.

hmm.  I need to look at the list I am running.  This seems like it is off by 2 cards.  I think I cut 2 cards for more mana.

[Dralock]

I disagree with Xman slightly:

This deck's strength is the ability to use squee over 3 to 4 turns in an effective manner other than just drawing cards. In most bazaar decks, squee presents a problem of being a dead card unless bazaar, which is terribly hard to protect, is on the table.

In order of appearance:

@nataz

Circular logic is not plausable turn 1 or 2, even with acceleration. Using force to solve all of your control problems is just not a good idea. Force is negative card advantage, mana leak is not. Being that the deck is fully powered and runs 3 separate colors, the mono-U nature of leak is preferred.

@madmanmike25

I ran a different build than this, which consequently does not run as well in testing, but running pithing needle in the side to get around wasteland, welders and slaver is probably the best solution. I like echoing truth, and as STP is not an option, it is the best thing againsed big daddy DSC. The side is meta dependent, but if you are in a heavy control environment, the wurms are awesome sauce.

@cosineme

Tog gets +1/+1 for each card discarded, houngs gets +2/+2 for each creature. Therefore, with a squee, intuition and hound in hand, provided you have the accel, you are online and beating for 10 by turn three. This deck's game is to steadily draw and kill, though broken things are possible.

@Luiggi

Black is better than Red. Roar of the wurm is terrible. Mana Drain is better than circular logic or arrogant wurm, and Hounds are easier to play off drain. Is there anything else to consider?

@Disburen

I'm glad you like it, there are many things you can do for versitility, and I haven't met a matchup that was just unwinnable since BBS went out of style.

[silvernail]

i would consider adding engineered explosives over deeds and with that id either cut green altogether or add some berserks for a fast and random i win draw. if you do go the route of cutting green i would consider running with togs and zombie infestations, making this like the italian tog lists.

I like the idea of vamp hounds and squee, and if you wanted to add to that perhaps run krovikan (sp?) horror, the one that comes back and lets you sac him for damage or something. Point being its another returnable critter for hounds. Other than that you should not run less than 24 mana sources in type 1 unless you are playing mono color because resource denial can really reck your day.

Alternatly you can cut green and add red for anger and other goodies such as REB and RnR.

[Revvik]

i would consider adding engineered explosives over deeds and with that id either cut green altogether or add some berserks for a fast and random i win draw. if you do go the route of cutting green i would consider running with togs and zombie infestations, making this like the italian tog lists.

This deck and Italian Bazaar Psychatog lists are birds of a different feather, and the current discussion deals with the Dogs of War listed above: Wild Mongrel and Vampire Hounds and their interaction with Squee.  Also, Explosives doesn't do the same job as Deed, especially considering he can't take advantage of the Sunburst effectively enough to deal with some stated threats to the deck (Platinum Angel, for one).  Also, Deed neuters Goblin Welder and his toys, Explosives leaves one or the other intact.

X-Man: I can't say I agree with your threat base at all, but obviously it's worked for you so I'll go with benefit of doubt.
Excellent control skeleton, although I think BOTH of your draw answers are negated by mana denial tactics.
I do agree with the addition of Pithing Needle to the board, despite the fact that I hate the little card and his chase rarity.

[Xman]

@ silvernail,

Revvik covered the answer about EE.  Lets not forget that this is NOT a Psychatog deck, not plays like one.  Believe me, I love the tog, but this is a much different deck.

As for the lack of mana, the list is off by 2 cards.  I can't remember what they are at the moment, but as soon as I figure it out, I will,.  I cut 2 cards for 2 more islands.  23 mana is enough.

Maybe it was -1 deed, -1 truth for +2 islands.  Or something else like that. 

@ Revvik,

Thats all right that you disagree with the threat base.  It was one that we decided to toss togther, and seems to work quite well actually.  Besides, I like the feeling of beating Control Slaver or Tog or something else like that with an Exodus Common.  Makes me feel a little dirty inside  .  But if you like the design, feel free to swap out the creatures for other ones, and run it like that.  I know it doesn't look like much, but those creatures work extremely well.

And I to hate that little pithing needle, but it is mostly effective in a deck like this.  I even thought of putting choke in the board for special occasions.  I am also thinking disks in the board could help a little, to interchange with deeds against decks such as 5/3, 7/10/ stax, etc.  Hit a crtl-alt-delete on the game is decent at times, devastating at other times.

[silvernail]

still the adding of red for anger and fling and the SB cards might be good, or add berserk to randomly win with a huge hound. EE cant hit anything more than 5cc but how often do you really need that ?

[Godder]

Still the adding of red for anger and fling and the SB cards might be good, or add berserk to randomly win with a huge hound. EE cant hit anything more than 5cc but how often do you really need that ?

1. Platinum Angel is a good reason not to rely on EE, and with only the Mox Pearl and Ruby as the off-colour sources, this deck will have difficulty going above 3cc.
2. EE hits one particular CC. While that can be useful, having to choose between Welder and Moxen, rather than hitting both, could easily lose games.
3. Drain mana is more useful with Deed than EE, which is particularly helpful if you're trying to blow up something big.

[Dralock]

still the adding of red for anger and fling and the SB cards might be good, or add berserk to randomly win with a huge hound. EE cant hit anything more than 5cc but how often do you really need that ?

I don't know if you have played with deed before, but its an insane removal spell that out-classes engineered explosives in almost every way. Let me make an analogy why deed is in instead of EE:

EE is a laser-guided missle while deed is a 5-megaton bomb. One goes for a specific kill while the other decides to take everything else with it on the way out the door.

If you run BG, deed is an auto-include (for the most part).

[Liam-K]

Why would you add red for anger?  You'd never cast it.

I also don't see anger being good since mst of your discard outlets are creatures and plan A does not involve playing more than 1.

[Marton]

Why would you add red for anger?  You'd never cast it.

I also don't see anger being good since mst of your discard outlets are creatures and plan A does not involve playing more than 1.

Anger requries a mountain in play in order to make your creatures haste. RTFC.

[Xman]

@ Silvernail,

by the looks of your posts, you feel like I did early in development of this deck.  Turn it into a deck more like Hulk, or tog.  It doesn't work that way.  This deck is not a tog deck and should not be considered one.

@ Dralock,

Nice Analagy.

[silvernail]

umm ya you dont cast the anger you discard it to swing with dudes as soon as you play them, and is most benifical if you add zombie infestations(which if you cut green you could use those over mongrels). Adding a berserk wouldnt hurt the deck i nany way and it lets you swing with a big guy at random ( or not so random if you tutor it up) and amounts to tinker collosus style random winnings.

[Lunar]

besides this deck runing more counters...how is this better than Cerebral Assasin in theory?

Cerebral Assasin dumps first or second turn threats that are larger and more disruptive earlier than this deck...beyond that CA runs welders to mess around with Stax ans ShopAggro things that could potentially harm this deck...

Where is this deck better than CA and why should anybody run this over CA? To me it feels like you forced some more control into an aggro/combo deck to make it aggro/control instead, at the cost of a more efficient win base. Vampire Hounds (even if it gets big quick, which of course requires it resolving and you discarding squees and stuff) is at best an 8/8 on turn 2 or 3, vs sundering titan who comes into play turn 1 or 2 in CA and is already 7/10 and also happens to nuke your opponents lands...the clock will be similar except if an opponent kills hounds hes gone and you have to rebuild (yes I know you will have another threat growing out there..) but CA will just animate/reanimate or weld its creatures back into play which makes for some more good disruption...

Using squee to actually be a threat is neat.  But using squee to be neat over 3 or 4 turns seems kinda weak in T1 to me...most drain decks have won (or tried to win) by that point either starting the infinite slave loop or by tinker/walk/DSC or yawgwill by then...your still floundering with a single creature that does nothing really on its own...

maybe the best thing I see there is deed...is deed good enough to build an entire deck around in T1 though? Maybe you have something here...it just leaves me with a lot of questions about why this is better than any of the other bazaar decks out on the market (dragon, ubastax, replenish, infestation, cerebral assasin, even old school bazaar madness) I know they are all different decks doing different things, but why would I play a deck that is slower than all of them? and with only 21 mana sources here, I find some choices to be lacking...Cerebral Assasin builds have been running only 21 and they are very very touchy at times...id hate to try and run a controlish deck at only 21 mana...scary.

Maybe testing shows this deck to be better than it looks, but on paper this looks pretty sketchy.

[PipOC]

besides this deck runing more counters...how is this better than Cerebral Assasin in theory?

Resiliency.  CA will generally lose a long game, while this can stick it out with tangible threats, rather than being reliant on spells that CA can back up with countermagic infrequently at best.  The manabase is vastly superior as well.  There are no gemstone mines here that can just die on you when you need them, and there's no city of brass hurting you alot, and there's a much higher mana source count.  It's also doesn't run as many dead cards as CA does, because squees are useful without bazzar, and the threats are useful without discard and reanimation.  Overall it has a much higher effective threat density because it's not reliant on having pairs of specific cards

[Xman]

Maybe testing shows this deck to be better than it looks, but on paper this looks pretty sketchy.

I do know it looks like a pile on paper, and it looks absoluely terrible.  But put it together in Magic Work Station or Apprentice or real life, and try it out.  Goldfish it.  It is honestly tougher than it looks, more reliable than it looks.

Yes, it does not have the flashy type 1 wins and the biggest baddest creatures in the game, but it is still effective and it does what it is designed to do.  Beat Control.  It also runs with a control matchup to combo, and an aggro-control matchup to aggro.  It is really a very versattile deck.

Actually, don't bother goldfishing it.  Just play it against some people.  It is a very reactive deck that will stay on the board and n control for most of the games.  Yes, the Titan is bigger & Nukes lands.  Thats fine.  This deck has a flair with it that you are winning with pretty much a low key and generally a bad creature.

If 21 mana is to few for you, try -1 echoing truth & add in a 5th Island.  Still to few, -1 deed + 1 Island.  Or if you prefer, dualies.

[Lunar]

CA will generally lose a long game

Pip, I know you like CA and such..but that statement alone makes me think you dont really know CA that well. CAs problem tends to be mid game...if I get to the long game with CA and havnt lost to well ANYTHING, then im just as well off as they are since I can drop bomb after bomb at most any time...especially with active bazaar working for me, the game state actually IMPROOVES for CA the later you go...the deck is odd, you either win really early, or really late...the mid game is what can get you sometimes...but im my heavy experience with the deck I find your statement extreemly errant...I dont know what you might be doing wrong, but thats just off...in fact its one of my favorite things about CA...

Beyond that, I rarely (very very very rarely) ever find gemstones creating problems for me in CA...more often its the fact that to get the deck working properly you need to be at that low 21 mana number, this is the major problem, any lands could go there and 21 mana would be a problem at times...wastes also are rarely a problem as CA can generally operate through a game on only 1-3 mana and still win.

there's no city of brass hurting you alot

God, is that really a problem for you??? this IS T1 not T2 remember, I dont know of a time when taking 1 a turn lost you the game...but maybe...sigh...



anyhow, now that im off my rant at Pip for misjudging CA (man and he plays it too, sigh...) ill try to get back on topic (I just hate when people really miss some things about CA...heh, its not really as bad as you all might think...)

Yes, it does not have the flashy type 1 wins and the biggest baddest creatures in the game, but it is still effective and it does what it is designed to do.  Beat Control

CA beats control as well...in fact its ability to beat Control Slaver somewhat easily is one of its best points...pwnd...


You didnt really answer any real comparisons to CA...however the main place I could see running this OVER CA (and really the only place id ever run it over CA) would be in a combo heavy meta...this deck should have a much easier time of beating storm combo decks (although you do say dragon is a problem, which is REALLY a problem) CA has a tough time beating dragon too, but it really really comes down to play skill (ive never ever ever lost to dragon with CA in a tournament) getting to abuse HIS stuff as much as my own makes it a toss up and skill generally comes through.

It also runs with a control matchup to combo

thats the most positive thing I see for this deck...it does have a better handle on some of the control issues...

The only other comment I really have is that you are utilizing a bazaar deck that doesnt utilize its graveyard...while this get it away from graveyard disruption...it also gets away from bazaar's greatest strength...

[PipOC]

CA will generally lose a long game

Pip, I know you like CA and such..but that statement alone makes me think you dont really know CA that well. CAs problem tends to be mid game...if I get to the long game with CA and havnt lost to well ANYTHING, then im just as well off as they are since I can drop bomb after bomb at most any time...especially with active bazaar working for me, the game state actually IMPROOVES for CA the later you go...the deck is odd, you either win really early, or really late...the mid game is what can get you sometimes...but im my heavy experience with the deck I find your statement extreemly errant...I dont know what you might be doing wrong, but thats just off...in fact its one of my favorite things about CA...

Beyond that, I rarely (very very very rarely) ever find gemstones creating problems for me in CA...more often its the fact that to get the deck working properly you need to be at that low 21 mana number, this is the major problem, any lands could go there and 21 mana would be a problem at times...wastes also are rarely a problem as CA can generally operate through a game on only 1-3 mana and still win.

It's true that you'll win a long game against most control, but against fish, oath, and workshop, I find myself losing to a combination of wastelands cutting off my draw engine, and removal they carry, or in the case of oath, countering my early attempts at threats and then comboing out.

Anyway about the lands, I didn't mean to imply that it was a big problem for me, but it does create random losses just due to not having necessary colors.  The pain from COB is hardly ever a problem except against decks with a clock like fish.

I didn't mean that CA was bad or worse than this, but to point out the advantages that hounds has.  We can discuss this more by PM if you like.

[Lunar]

oh you know me...im always up for a little CA chat...I think the oath matchup and even the stax matchups are good in the long game...I usually beat fish long before the long game so thats not normally a problem...


but seriously...I like the idea of the deck..it seems decent really..I just dont see it being too much better than already existing bazaar decks in the format...CA already does everything this does aggro wise better, at the cost of a little to the combo matchup...some of the european bazaar decks run just as much control as this does, and run faster win conditions...Dragon smokes this every time...

Im not trying to be rude...I just ALWAYS want to hear whys...

"why should I play this instead of CA?"
"why should I play this instead of Dragon?"
since it was made earlier..."why should I play this instead of Tog?"


Keep it coming...newish ideas are always nice to see 

[Godder]

"why should I play this instead of CA?"
"why should I play this instead of Dragon?"
since it was made earlier..."why should I play this instead of Tog?"

Reanimator decks (CA and Dragon) can be crippled by graveyard hate and other timely annoyances like Wasteland. If the metagame expects Dragon, it's a bad choice. This doesn't like Tormod's Crypt (for example), or Wasteland, but it's not crippled by them, either.

Tog could replace Mongrel, but Mongrel is cheaper and bigger, so coming down on turn 1 or 2 as opposed to turn 2 or 3 can matter, and being able to do more damage each turn is always a plus, too.

[Blitzbold]

With the Bazaar/Squee-engine already included one can also think about adding both 1 Worldgorger Dragon, 1 Laquatus and 2-4 Animate Spells to the board. Just some food for thought.

[Dralock]

With the Bazaar/Squee-engine already included one can also think about adding both 1 Worldgorger Dragon, 1 Laquatus and 2-4 Animate Spells to the board. Just some food for thought.

A dragon transformational sideboard was tested and results were awful. Sure, you have bazaar and intuition, but thats the only similarity. There isn't any of the rest of the good parts of the deck, like xantid swarm, compulsion, lim-dul's vault, misdirection, etc. to have a solid game vs any deck.

If you were on a budget or something, and you could proxy up bazaars, then just play dragon. This deck requires full power and full semi-power to operate.

[Lunar]

okay, to further push at you guys (not cause I dont like the deck, its interesting at least)

where would you want to run this rather than some other form of aggro control, like other types of madness decks or something like Fish...

While ive never been overly bothered by graveyard hate other than ground seal with CA, I do see the point you are trying to make...why then would we want to go with this build of aggro-control when there are other established forms out there?

[Xman]

I apologize I couldn't answer your question about CA very well, as it is not a very common deck (to my knowledge).  Maybe I should become a politician.  I can say a lot of stuff without actually saying anything.  hmm.

But I digress for you Lunar.

Why play this over other, established decks?  It really depends on your meta, honestly.  Bazaar madness is a better aggro deck than this, but has a bad matchup vs. decks like Slaver & Gifts, not to mention against a deck like stax, or fast combo decks.  Hounds actually has a favorable matchup vs. decks like Slaver, Fish, Gifts, a coinflip vs. Stax, and a control matchup vs. fast combo.  It allows it to be more versatile than a deck like madness.

As for Fish, If you had the cards to make this deck, why would you be playing fish over a deck like slaver?  Or Gifts?  Or something else?  Fish is a good deck, but it is generally a very budget deck, and if you have the cards, you want to use them.  Might as well use them to go more broken.

Another thing you have to understand is that hounds is NOT a madness deck.  It does not have a single madness card in it.  It uses  squees with beats and with draw.  It runs Deep Anlysis as DA likes being in the yard, and works with both mongrel & bazaar.  Wonder loves being in the yard for the hounds to fly over other creatures.  It is unlike any other single deck out there, but takes pieces from decks like Dragon, Tog, and a couple others to build a different deck.

Also, the main reason to play a deck like this is you are going to a tournament, you bring a suprise deck (suprise helps a lot, throwing people off their A game, etc) and have a favorable matchup vs. most of the decks youa re going to be encountering.  Plus it is different and pretty unique in how it works.  It also has enough raw speed and strength to beat through most decks that are in its way, and it is frequently able to 2-0 decks like slaver.  Fish is actually a slightly harder matchup than slaver, but all you need is 1 deed to solve the problem.  Besides, there is a certain flair that goes with winning with a deck like this.  Remember, you are taking what is generally considered a couple bad cards and making them good.  As I recall, that was part of the theory behind U/R Fish.

It helps the style points.  Which means absolutely nothing.  But winning is winning, and whats better than winning?  Winning Flashier of course.

I know none of these are a real good reason (except perhaps the suprise and the matchup benefits) to make people play this over other established decks, but this deck is really a beast, fun to play, and pretty cool.  It can also win through most hate.  But why do you play the decks you do?  You like them on more of a level than just the effectiveness.  There is somethign about the deck that fits a style you like, and thats what Hounds does.  It fits into a style.  And it can and should show up at some tournaments.  I only say this because people should play it.  It is very cool and very fun to play.  Plus, you get compliments on playign such a unique and different deck.

[Dralock]

okay, to further push at you guys (not cause I dont like the deck, its interesting at least)

where would you want to run this rather than some other form of aggro control, like other types of madness decks or something like Fish...

Anywhere that has workshops and gifts ungiven. Madness and fish both have auto-lose matchups in the current meta, this deck does not. I hate to be the "I am going to prove it by telling you to go out and play" guy, but hey, it worked for me. I had exactly the same view, and hated the thought of vampire hounds when I first saw the list (when 3sphere was unrestricted), but with the restriction of trinisphere, this conflaguration has a unique ability to shine.

While ive never been overly bothered by graveyard hate other than ground seal with CA, I do see the point you are trying to make...why then would we want to go with this build of aggro-control when there are other established forms out there?

Personally, I play the deck like a heavy control deck over aggro control. Sure, the quickest way to victory is to lay down a mongrel and plow ahead for the win, but this isn't madness, so aggro threats will not be seen for backup. Therefore, a slower, more controlled game will be necessary to persevere againsed many decks. There are many turns I play that I have 11+ cards in hand, and am drawing four cards a turn. The interaction with squee, library, bazaar, intuition and hounds lets you set up all sorts of broken. If you need MORE broken, pack some merchant scrolls to fetch your ancestral or an intuition or even a force to make it through a turn that you have burned walk already and have set up for the kill.

Also, the deck can be melded in to others very easily. Dragon has been suggested, but doesn't work terribly well. Mystical->tinker->DSC fits well in the sideboard, and ground seals can be the inconvenience necessary to edge through gifts and slaver/welderstax. On top of that, maindeck deed man.

This deck is to aggro control as Rivers affinity is to affinity. Sure, it uses mongrels and the draw/beat strategy, but it functions fundamentaly different than madness, fish or other tempo-based decks (the traditional view of aggro/control). I can go as far as to say this deck is more control/aggro than aggro/control.

Lastly, bazaar/squee is amazing.