[Deck] Blue Balls FTL (built for SCG Richmond)

[thorme]

I just posted this deck in the hard-core Vintage forum before realizing that the last post in there is like a month and a half old...not sure if anyone even goes there anymore, so I thought I'd post the deck here too.

Here is the link to the aforementioned post  (which includes some history, rationale, how to play, and card choices):

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=24738.0


Blue Balls FTL
========
4 Force of Will

3 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
4 Vedalken Archmage
1 Brain Freeze
2 Cunning Wish

4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Thoughtcast
1 Mind's Desire
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Timetwister
1 Memory Jar
1 Tinker
1 Gush
1 Frantic Search

1 Crop Rotation

7 Solomoxen
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith

2 Tropical Island
4 Fetch
4 Island
1 Tolarian Academy


Sideboard:

1 Rebuild
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Disrupting Shoals
1 Stifle
1 Echoing Truth
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Brain Freeze
2 Mystic Remora
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Xantid Swarm


Have at it folks! 

[alban]

nice idea  , but it seems to me this deck could use an alternative win condition.
maybe one colossus main for Tinker? Seeing how much mana this deck can produce, I can even see it being hardcasted + time walk in the same turn. Any thoughts?

[warble]

Only one comment:

 Â If we wanted a creature that doesn't beat and were adding some let's call them spellbombs, you've got conjurer's baubles, to the deck, we would probably go for auriok salvagers.  And if we wanted some blue creatures the deck would be called oh let's make up this name...slapjack?  You've basically replaced pyrite/aether spellbomb with conjurer's bauble AND chromasphere, a U2 2/2 creature that coming into play trigger gives you any artifact you could want in your deck with a UU2 0/2 creature that is just a cog, and Mana Drain is now dropped for . . . I don't see a reason here at all.

 Â In vintage, to pioneer a deck requires a unique take on the scene.  Placing your faith in a 0/2 4-CC creature that "could" draw cards as a cog instead of a 1/3 4-CC creature that absolute positively will win you the game unless null rod/tormod's crypt is resolved is...kinda strange man...  Plus, you don't splash green in your deck unless it is necessitated by a dominant strategy (xantid swarmx3 Maindeck, Oath of Druids, U/G Fish)  2 Tropical Island could easily be 2 Underground Sea, placing the soon-to-be-bigger tutor base of black and yawgwin at your fingertips.  Yes, you could state the 4x Xantid Swarm SB justifies the choice, but being the slow combo deck (what is your matchup against FCG, Fish, STAX?) you're not protecting your combo with xantid swarm, you're slowing it down by a turn which is basically what all of those decks want.  

I just don't see

4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Thoughtcast

being placed in any deck but a budget deck.

7 Solomoxen
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
does not say budget

[nataz]

...what is your matchup against ... STAX?

...

Here is the link to the aforementioned post  (which includes some history, rationale, how to play, and card choices):

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=24738.0

in which he says,

I came up with a combo deck based on basic lands, virtual immunity to artifact prison components, and that contained FoW.  In today's metagame, with prison once again widely-played, and workshops as strong as ever in Richmond, I was planning to play to following deck this weekend.

This is a turn 3 to 3 1/2 kill deck.  Not recommeded in a field of control (although you do have game...particularly due to turn 1 Xantid out of the board - also modern control relies heavily on Colossus, which you have a bunch of answers to that they must deal with while also keeping you from going off), but this thing owns Workshops.  It poops out permanents, can sit back and build up and watch as Workshop plays Spheres, Tangle Wires, Smokestacks, Chalices, etc...then simply H. Recall them at their end step and go off during your turn.

huzzah for not reading!

[thorme]

 If we wanted a creature that doesn't beat and were adding some let's call them spellbombs, you've got conjurer's baubles, to the deck, we would probably go for auriok salvagers.

Firstly, I feel honored and proud that we actually have royalty on TMD.

Regarding salvagers:  they are not blue, they combo with 2 cards (compare to archmage, who comboes with 22 cards in Blue Balls not counting the 4 artifact bounce spells), and that deck dies to null rod.




You do bring up a point about Yawg Will....trust me, I want the card in here so bad.  However, the green is a very small concession to the mana base to accomplish 2 important goals.  First, to play Crop Rotation since Academy is so very powerful here.  Second, to vastly improve the control matchup where adding Yawg Will would not be nearly as helpful.
 Â 

I just don't see

4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Conjurer's Bauble
3 Thoughtcast

being placed in any deck but a budget deck.

This is not the deck for you then.  Blue Balls is better suited to players with an open mind, or those willing to sleeve something up and try it out.

[forests failed you]

Don't worry about that, most players don't have the foresight to acknowledge that anything different could possibly be good (especially in Vintage) until it has won something.

My main concern about the deck is that you don't play enough quick cards that help you maximize the efficiency of your opening hand on turn one.  I.e. Brainstorm, Impulse, et cetera.

Without a quick card that lets you see a bunch of cards really early, you are kind of banking on the seven cards you initially draw to take you all the way.  As opposed to if you have a brainstorm in your opening hand, you are now banking on the top ten cards.  Also, you might consider some number of Divining Top in the deck.  It has really good Synergy with the Archmage and it provides a similar function to Brainstorm, in that it allows you to dig for the cards you are looking for.

[warble]

...what is your matchup against ... STAX?

...

This is a turn 3 to 3 1/2 kill deck. Not recommeded in a field of control (although you do have game...particularly due to turn 1 Xantid out of the board - also modern control relies heavily on Colossus, which you have a bunch of answers to that they must deal with while also keeping you from going off), but this thing owns Workshops. It poops out permanents, can sit back and build up and watch as Workshop plays Spheres, Tangle Wires, Smokestacks, Chalices, etc...then simply H. Recall them at their end step and go off during your turn.

huzzah for not reading!

Sorry, I should have stated, "what is the incremental gain, or the game 1 vs 2/3 matchup percentage against STAX".  I don't care about "this deck houses STAX" that statement is suspiciously untrue I'm going to say 99% of the time it is made before testing against all stax builds.  Turn 1 balance.  chalice, trinisphere, gorillla shaman, null rod, for goodness sakes there is no control in the entire deck and stax WILL play threats that win or slow the game down to a point where they stomp all over you.

  If we wanted a creature that doesn't beat and were adding some let's call them spellbombs, you've got conjurer's baubles, to the deck, we would probably go for auriok salvagers.

Firstly, I feel honored and proud that we actually have royalty on TMD.

Regarding salvagers: they are not blue, they combo with 2 cards (compare to archmage, who comboes with 22 cards in Blue Balls not counting the 4 artifact bounce spells), and that deck dies to null rod.

Thanks, my crown needs some polishing if you'd like to come over sometime.

There is also an innate problem (contradiction) with your deck in that you want to play the acceleration into a 0/2 creature, then accelerate some MORE to draw cards and combo.  Against stax, you accelerate to get the 0/2 out, then have no more artifacts to draw with.  Or you don't accelerate into the 0/2 and get annihilated by the early lock and chalice.  The difference with salvagers is that there's none of that "I'm waiting for this spell to play a billion other utilities" you use the utilities, and have graveyard recursion to get them back.  You assume that having a known weakness is a fatal flaw.  I assume it's a factor to take into consideration when building a sideboard and maindecking answers if the need exists.  And no, auriok salvagers does not combo with 2 cards if you are talking about early trix.  Say I'm playing salvagers against your deck, I use my spellbomb, return for 1W and play for another 1.  I just used W(U/R)2 to cost you UU2 or your creature.  Seems like a good trade to me, we are playing the same mana base so we should be at similar places in our mana development, correct? 

This is a turn 3 to 3 1/2 kill deck.

Does this mean "I can draw mad insane numbers of cards and then pass the turn"?  I love recall-->draw a billion cards as much as everyone else.  I'm just not following what TPS did wrong that this deck does right.  Is it okay to say you assuming this is a fledgeling deck that, when tuned, will win on the turn TPS goes off but also be more resistant to hate?  Because I'm seeing the same weaknesses there.

Edit:
I forgot one thing.  Salvagers either runs oath of druids or trinket mage, either of which complete the combo.  So if you're talking oath salvagers, oath+orchard or salvager+lotus/diamond will suffice.  If you're talking slapjack, salvagers+lotus/diamond or salvagers+trinket mage combos you out.

[Revvik]

Looking initially at this list, it's not a comparison to Salvagers decks that I see - it's similar more to Ironworks.
Not so much in the actual cards used, but in the way the deck works - lots of components that aren't huge threats to be countered, but that can still end the game.  It also looks surprisingly redundant.  My only question is how often do you rely on Vedalken Archmage - if he doesn't get drawn right off the bat, is the deck still capable of winning fast despite the lack of tutors?  If he gets, countered, Conjurer's Bauble can still put him back in place, but then another one must be found.
If he's the focus of the deck (I'm assuming he is), how functional is the deck without him?
If this question is easily answerable via testing, then I'll figure it out since I already have a ton of these cards.

[JDawg13]

@Revvik: The deck does seem to rely heavily on Vedalken Archmage, that's true.  However, as Thorme stated in his initial post, this deck is not recommend to be played in a metagame full of control because having Archmage get countered is a problem.  If you expect to run into a lot of CS in your area, just don't play this deck, it's too reliant on a single creature resolving with very few ways of forcing him through.

[thorme]

My only question is how often do you rely on Vedalken Archmage - if he doesn't get drawn right off the bat, is the deck still capable of winning fast despite the lack of tutors?  If he gets, countered, Conjurer's Bauble can still put him back in place, but then another one must be found.
If he's the focus of the deck (I'm assuming he is), how functional is the deck without him?

Its an interesting question - he is usually required to go off (not always, but going off w/o him can be tough).  However, the deck is very much capable of just cantriping, digging, laying some basic lands for a few turns and then lay archmage and just win.  I would never consider mulliganing a hand just for lack of archmage.  Between the cantrips, draw spells, draw 7 effects, and the fact that there are 4 of them (and you only ever play one...do NOT play a second archmage since it is not an optional draw and it can be easy to deck yourself), I've never found getting an archmage out to be a problem. 

Also, if you think your opponent may have instant-speed removal, don't forget that you get priority after he resolves - so you'll at least get a one card advantage out of the deal.

[thorme]

Sorry, I should have stated, "what is the incremental gain, or the game 1 vs 2/3 matchup percentage against STAX".  I don't care about "this deck houses STAX" that statement is suspiciously untrue I'm going to say 99% of the time it is made before testing against all stax builds.  Turn 1 balance.  chalice, trinisphere, gorillla shaman, null rod, for goodness sakes there is no control in the entire deck and stax WILL play threats that win or slow the game down to a point where they stomp all over you.

Please reread the decklist.  I do have 4 FoW which is a much protection against a Turn 1 3Sphere as any deck in the format.  Also, an early chalice or null rod on their part is not an effective threat against this deck....please test the deck if you cannot see why by simply looking at the list.  I refuse to post matchup percentages, since nobody believes them and they are highly dependant on decklists, etc.  I will only say that in my testing, this deck has a winning matchup against all things workshop that I've throw at it.

There is also an innate problem (contradiction) with your deck in that you want to play the acceleration into a 0/2 creature, then accelerate some MORE to draw cards and combo. 

This seems to be the case, but in actual play it doesn't work that way.  You really are looking for only 1, maybe 2, pieces of acceleration to help get your Archmage out.  That leaves tons of artifacts left in deck, not to mention the 4 artifact bounce spells.

Or you don't accelerate into the 0/2 and get annihilated by the early lock and chalice.  The difference with salvagers is that there's none of that "I'm waiting for this spell to play a billion other utilities" you use the utilities, and have graveyard recursion to get them back.  You assume that having a known weakness is a fatal flaw.

I never claimed that salvagers has a fatal flaw - in fact, I like the deck.  But you claim that I get annihilated by early chalice.  I ask you, which deck is hurt more by turn 1 chalice for zero by the opponent?
 

[Disburden]

I'm loving this list!! Too bad all I see in my meta is Drains and Slaver. Damn North East!

I'd praise anyone that plays this at Richmond!

[mr_rogers]

Hey I really like this deck.  I have a very casual meta in my area so I think this could do well.  I love that somebody finally used the archmage, now I can tell my team mate what to do with his. .

[thorme]

@alban:

I toyed with the idea of colossus, but I'm a purist.  Also, once the deck gets rolling, it bounces all its own artifacts back to hand several times.

@forcefieldyou:

I've tested Tops before, and they are worth considering again.  I'd work 2 or 3 in for some combination of Tinker/Jar, Bauble, and 2nd Wish for testing.

[arj]

Without changing this too much. Have you considered high tide?

[Methuselahn]

Honestly, I can't say that I would feel comfortable bringing this to SCG Richmond.  The meta will be what you see on the net and harder to prepare for everything.  This deck does look like a specific metagame weapon. 

I've tinkered with the idea of using Brain Freeze and bounce in a deck (taking it to the second SCG CHI!) and never could get the Archmage to work in testing.  I wonder about Hurkyll's versus Rebuild as a storm engine.  The important difference between Sensei and this deck is that your storm does not go infinite here.  This makes me think that Tendrils is a better choice over Brain Freeze.  That's just my experience though.

That Academy trick is nice.   

[49 Cents]

Without changing this too much. Have you considered high tide?

I think Tide isn't needed and weakens your matchup against control even more..

[thorme]

The important difference between Sensei and this deck is that your storm does not go infinite here.  This makes me think that Tendrils is a better choice over Brain Freeze. 

I'm curious as to what you mean here.  If you are concerned about starting to go off, but stalling partway and being unable to generate a storm count of around 17 (rather than the 9 or so that Tendrils would require), I can tell you that has almost never been a problem in my experience.  If you Recall once with an Archmage out, you are virtually certain to be able to go off w/o issue (in fact, a more common problem is worrying about decking yourself).

[arj]

Without changing this too much. Have you considered high tide?

I think Tide isn't needed and weakens your matchup against control even more..

Just seems that he could use the mana if he is running crop rotation. You could say the same about memory jar and timetwister but they are needed to go off. I kind of feel the same way about high tide.

[thorme]

Ideally, you'll be going off Turn 3 with Academy and 2 islands in play.  Apart from Frantic Search (and in certain situations Gush), you have no way to untap your islands, so I really don't see High Tide being worth it.

[mongrel12]

If this is a turn 3/4 combo deck, why is it better than tps?

[Wolven]

How often do you run out of steam? Would the addition of Fastbond serve to accellerate or make your combo any more reliable?

[thorme]

If this is a turn 3/4 combo deck, why is it better than tps?

TPS is better suited to a control-heavy meta.  This deck has better game in a heavy prison meta due to the higher number of anti-artifact winners maindeck.


@Wolven:
I actually tested Fastbond in an earlier version.  It isn't terrible, but I didn't find it necessary either.  You almost never run out of steam - your focus is getting the steam started  (aka play Archmage).

You guys really have to see Archmage in action...it is a thing of beauty.  Enchantress always had 2 drawbacks - she makes you play green and she makes you play enchantments.  Archmage makes you play blue (oh noes!) and artifacts (the horror!) ... cards which all good Type 1 decks love to play anyway.  I'm not claiming the deck to be Tier 1 - but it is a really fun, suprising, and viable (in a workshop-heavy area) alternative to the norm.

[lordmayhem]

Would a cheaper alternative (Retract) allow you to go off earlier, since you can just play all your acceleration, dump an Archmage, Retract, play all the accel, draw a bunch of cards, rinse and repeat?

I know that Hurkyl's allows you to ruin Stax players' day, but I was wondering if you tested it, and if so, what were the results like?

[Kowal]

Retract is really bad because it doesn't let you set up at all.  The reason to play this deck is pretty much entirely the maindeck workshop hate. 

[Lelolith]

Interesting, one thought. Helm of Awakening, what happened to this in your testing?

[Triple_S]

Be on the look out for the Helm deck I'll be posting w/in 48 hours that I'm not playing in Richmond...