R/G Beats Facelift

[magus888]

The last thread left us with the notion that R/G Beats sucks ass. Here's an updated R/G Beats deck which I've been play testing for two months. It's extremely fast.

This build fixes the two fundamental problems:
1. Draw engine: Old Beats relied on top decking.
2. Clock:  Old Beats never had an aggressive creature base.

Beats:
4 Mongrel
4 Rootwalla
4 Werebear
4 Kird Ape

Hate which can work against decks other than Stax and Slaver:
4 Chalice
3 Jitte
3 Coretapper (Yes, this card is good. Assists your Vials, Chalices, and Jitte and screws their (Fish, Workshop Aggro, Stax, and Chalice Oath) Chalices and Vials)

Clock/Engine:
3 Anger
4 Vial
4 Bazaar
4 Squee

Mana:
1 Lotus
1 Emerald
1 Ruby
4 Wooded Foothill
1 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
1Forest
1Mountain
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Sideboard: Beats should keep most of its hate here so its mainboard isn't flooded with useless spells.
4 Artifact Mutation
4 REB
1 Jitte
3 Naturalize
3 Choke

This may seem like R/G Fish, and that's exactly what it is. Fish is what the deck has been trying to become for years, and now I believe I've achieved that goal. R/G Beats as we know it must come to an end. Here's the direction we must take to make it competitive

[Arvid]

If you consider this R/G Fish why don't you play the typical R fish creatures, such as Grim Lavamancer and Gorilla Shaman? I get that the old mox monkey might be a little outdated seeing Chalice of the Void hoses the same permanents, but lavamancer?

[mr_rogers]

Your list is interesting.  The deck seems like it could be good, but do you have any results against CS, STAX, or Gifts?  Also how does the deck handle combo?

[NWI Team_Zilla]

The last thread left us with the notion that R/G Beats sucks ass. Here's an updated R/G Beats deck which I've been play testing for two months. It's extremely fast.

To my knowledge there plenty of R/G threads floating around along with lots of fish variants that are competitive.  At first glance this seems like (if your stats are right) it should to well in the current Chicago metagame, but anywhere else your only going to see but one, maybe two stax decks in the swiss (before cut top8).  So, what type of metagame are you intending this for.(stax I guess) And what makes your deck better than most other budget* fish decks?

[PacmanXSA]

No Mox Monkey?  Really?

I understand that you're going for speed, but I feel that the monkey is too good not to be run in any red oriented deck right now.  Chalice for 1 and 2 really seem to screw you over...

Pac

[magus888]

Your list is interesting.  The deck seems like it could be good, but do you have any results against CS, STAX, or Gifts?  Also how does the deck handle combo?

First game against CS is a race against their combo. This deck beats for 20+ way before they can lock. Jitte helps by smashing Welder in the face.
Post sideboard is a pretty funny game.

The Stax matchup is just about the same as CS. Stax hates when coretapper screws its Chalice

Unless Gifts gets an insanely good starting hand, this deck beats too fast.
Post sideboard Mutation for 11 wimps is nice.

Combo crushes this deck, but with some good suggestions we can fix this problem.
Maybe Sideboard:
-1 Ckoke
-1 REB
+2 Tormod's Crypt

[NicolaeAlmighty]

Coretapper?? I definitely think that should be a Mox Monkey. You don't want to "mess up their Chalices", you want to get rid of them! Chalice of the Void can single handedly take down even the fiercest of R/G Beats decks. The whole Bazaar/ Squee aspect is... interesting as well. I personally think three Anger is too many. Two is ideal, giving you space for something else. Rancor could be a potential 1-3x. Not only does it make your Beats huge, but actually gives you some ground against an active Smoke Stack... And as I recall, the most recent R/G Beats forum was mine, and it was a generally agreed from everyone who participated that the deck had potential... Far from your outrageous comment-

The last thread left us with the notion that R/G Beats sucks ass.

Might want to consider some maindeck Red Blasts. How can this deck possibly expect to

beat for 20+ way before they can lock.

Are you pretending that they arent playing counterspells? Without Rancor or any accelerants, this deck couldn't possibly start dealing good amounts of damage until 4-5 turn. No better than its "suck ass" predecessor.

[magus888]

Sorry if you took that personally. 

[NicolaeAlmighty]

No worries. Look at my points though, as I cannot help but try to help out a R/G player. Coretapper is a good concept, but on its own its far from effective. It serves absolutely no beats nor real utility.

You know when they say that sometimes a deck needs to metagame certain things in order to be effective? I think R/G has been forced by evolution of the metagame to maindeck Red Blasts in order to compete. Otherwise, regardless of how much/ many beats you have on the board, decks will simply run you over.

At first I was completely and totally against Vial. R/G wants to throw as much as it can out early turns in order to make the game effective. But when I took into account the fact that you were doing the Bazaar engine, I realized that it has to have Vials! The fact that without your Squees you'll need non-beats shit to ditch, and that's going to be valuable mana resources. A problem that can only be solved by Vial... Props on that. Went right over my head.

You also have no real answers beyond Jitte for Welders/ Fishy critters. Don't like the traditional burn aspects red provides? Bolt, Fire/Ice, Dart, Lavamancer... Anything! They are all amazing. Hell even Fiery Temper could fit your Bazaar situation. Just some things to ponder...

[magus888]

But Coretapper is retarded with Jitte!

[NicolaeAlmighty]

Yes... and how is it on its own?

[magus888]

Thinking about it a little while longer, we could always go for speed kill. It's faster than any other aggro deck I can think of. It's even faster than Madness

Meandeck R/G Beats:
Beats:
4 Mongrel
4 Rootwalla
4 Werebear
4 Kird Ape
1 Crop Rotation
3 Rancor
4 Fiery Temper
3 Anger
4 Vial
4 Bazaar
4 Squee
1 Petal
1 Lotus
1 Emerald
1 Ruby
4 Wooded Foothill
1 Windswept Heath
4 Taiga
2 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Sideboard:
4 Artifact Mutation
3 REB
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ray of Revolation
2 Choke

[Revvik]

Coretapper does nothing on its own, but it is interesting anti-Chalice tech.
Jitte is probably much better than the old staple of Lightning Bolt here.

My main concern is that you're throwing the "Rule of 7" out the window here.  A deck without a real draw engine wants consistency - the old R/G had it in that it had at least 7 of each different type of effect.

Kird Apes - 8 (4 Kirds, 4 Elites)
Burn Spells - 11 (4 Bolts, 4 Incinerate/Fire-Ice, 3 Lavamancer)
...and so forth.  Its problem was that the real devastating spells like Root Maze had no similar replacement to fulfill that effect.

That being said, I do like a lot of things about the direction here.  Jitte isn't as amazing as it is in Standard or Block, but with all the beaters in this deck adequately filling your curve (turn 1 creature, turn 2 Jitte, turn 3 equip) I think it will do better here than it does in Fish (turn 1 nothing, turn 2 creature, turn 3 Jitte...).

The Bazaar of Baghdad engine with Mongrel & Rootwalla is interesting, similar to an old favorite of mine - Oshawa Stompy.  Pretty powerful if it gets going.

I do not like Chalice of the Void - whether I'm playing with it or against it.  All you can really do with it is lay it down to prevent Moxen, when Gorilla Shaman might just do the same thing.
Also, Rancor is not a target for Bazaar.  It must be in play before it hits the graveyard to be replayable.

[AmbivalentDuck]

I've also loved the R/G concept in my day, but the deck you have to be better than is Food Chain Goblins.   FCG beats Workshops outright and has a game against control.  How are you improving on that?

Remember, they have the same colors you do...  So "we run Null Rod, Blood Moon, Root Maze" doesn't count.

And why not run Lava Dart to give yourself a game against Welders and Fish?

[lordmayhem]

If Coretapper could add any kind of counter, it would be retardedly good. Adding 3 soot counters to opposing Smokestacks messes up the Shop player's game plan.

As it is, Coretapper does nothing really spectacular by itself. Gorilla Shaman is a hell of a lot of a better idea since its MD-hate which can get rid of opposing mana and opposing nuisance artifacts.

[Revvik]

Holy beans - I just realized you called that 'Meandeck R/G Beatz.' 

[magus888]

Does Elvish Spirit Guide deserve a slot?

[NicolaeAlmighty]

"Meandeck R/G Beats"? ::sigh::

Anyways, Elvish Spirit Guide... I personally don't like him, although I suppose it's at least worth playtesting.

[magus888]

How's about Barbarian Ring? It's an uncounterable source of damage to welders and the like. It's also fetchable with Crop Rotation

-1 basic +1 Ring

[[supa_t(im)]]

This really isn't R/G Beatz/Tempo.  Its more of Oshawa/R.  It also seems like you've been getting a couple ideas from Hounds.

IMO, it needs root maze.

I'm not a big fan of jitte because it doesn't let you run Null Rod, which I think is a incredible hate card, even today.  Also, as stated before, rancor gives you a little advantage when you are up against a smoketstack.

I like the concept of this deck though, because drawing three cards a turn is nice.  However, I can't help but think that if we are going with Zaars, squees, mongrels, rootwallas, tempers, and angers we might as well go with RUG Madness.

[NicolaeAlmighty]

I agree with that one. I think you're trying too hard to give R/G a draw engine. This just looks like Oshawa with red and less Bazaar abuse... Less synergy. One of the big drawbacks of R/G is that you sacrifice drawing power for consistant beats. All aggro, no beating around the bush. The closest thing to a draw engine I've ever seen in R/G were Browbeats... and that was just laughable.

[coop]

Why wouldn't you just play Bazaar Madness?  This looks similar except with worse creatures.  I agree with everything [supa_t(im)]  said.

[TheOrangePet]

How's about Barbarian Ring? It's an uncounterable source of damage to welders and the like. It's also fetchable with Crop Rotation

-1 basic +1 Ring

Barb Ring is a very long-term source of damage. I seriously doubt your deck has the ability to consistently have threshold before the game ends.

Does Elvish Spirit Guide deserve a slot?

Instead of trying to accelerate your disruption you should add more. Your decks NEEDS Root Maze to be competitive and adding redundancy always helps.