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Author Topic: Darkblast question?  (Read 1711 times)
Dante
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« on: October 12, 2005, 06:20:16 pm »

Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Dredge 3 (If you would draw a card, instead you may put exactly three cards from the top of your library into your graveyard. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand. Otherwise, draw a card.)


Does it work like this:

1.  Dredge is in your graveyard
2.  when it's time to draw a cad, instead of drawing a card, you use the dredge replacement effect to mill the top 3 cards into the graveyard.
3.  the "if you do" part kicks in and you can return the card from graveyard to your hand, but instead you choose to "draw a card" instead of return Darkblast to your hand.  Does it just go up to #2 again?  Can you just repeat this to continually mill yourself until you choose to stop and draw the card or return Darkblast to your hand?


502.47. Dredge

502.47a Dredge is a static ability that functions only while the card with dredge is in a player's graveyard. "Dredge N" means "As long as you have at least N cards in your library, if you would draw a card, instead you may put N cards from the top of your library into your graveyard and return this card from your graveyard to your hand."

502.47b A player with fewer cards in his or her library than the number required by a dredge ability can't put any of them into his or her graveyard this way.

* Dredge lets you replace any card draw, not just the one during your draw step.

* Once you decide to replace a draw using a card's dredge ability, that card can't be removed from your graveyard "in response." (Replacement effects don't use the stack.)

* You can't use dredge unless you're going to draw a card and the card with dredge is already in your graveyard.
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2005, 06:24:42 pm »

If you chose to draw a card, milling doesn't occur.
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2005, 06:39:05 pm »

Returning Darkblast once you mill 3 cards is NOT optional. Choosing to mill the cards in the first place is.
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2005, 08:46:03 pm »

So the otherwise applies to the whole part of that card - "instead of drawing a card, you may mill 3 and take darkblast into hand" OR "instead of drawing a card, draw a card".

What's the point of the "otherwise" part of the card.  Why not just say:

If you would draw a card, instead you may put exactly three cards from the top of your library into your graveyard. If you do, return this card from your graveyard to your hand.

Why add the rest when it's optional to skip the draw anyway?
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2005, 08:53:34 pm »

If it didn't have the "otherwise, draw a card" part, then you would never die from milling, because you'd replace all your draws with dredge and fail to mill any additional cards.
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2005, 09:00:51 pm »

Note that, in 502.47a which you quoted, Dredge has actually been reworded so that it doesn't even use the 'if you do' and 'otherwise' template anymore. Having the right amount of cards is now a prerequisite to using the ability in the first place, presumably to prevent exactly this kind of confusion.
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2005, 07:35:26 am »

Note that, in 502.47a which you quoted, Dredge has actually been reworded so that it doesn't even use the 'if you do' and 'otherwise' template anymore. Having the right amount of cards is now a prerequisite to using the ability in the first place, presumably to prevent exactly this kind of confusion.

That text was never the official rules to begin with; it was simply reminder text regarding how the ability worked.  Magic shorthand, as it were.  Close to what the actual rules say, but not actual rules.

But yes, basically if you would draw a card, you can either choose to mill or draw a card.  And you can only choose to mill, if you actually have at least that many cards in your library.  So, you can't choose to Dredge if you have 2 cards left in your library, and you have to mill 3 to Dredge.
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