Skittles

[EnialisLiadon]

I agree with Jacob on Fireball.  It's only good vs opponents without lifegain.  In 1vs1vs1 battles my friends have, Fireball-dude realizes he can't burn me out with recurring A-Heralds, so burns the other guy (without lifegain) instead.  I'm sure if nonFireball nonlifegain-dude added some effective lifegain elements (like Dragoons or Heralds), Fireball-dude would realize his main win condition is largely uneffective and inefficient.

That and most of the other people run counter spells or wacky cards like Hallow.

[Philatio]

I agree with Jacob on Fireball.  It's only good vs opponents without lifegain.  In 1vs1vs1 battles my friends have, Fireball-dude realizes he can't burn me out with recurring A-Heralds, so burns the other guy (without lifegain) instead.  I'm sure if nonFireball nonlifegain-dude added some effective lifegain elements (like Dragoons or Heralds), Fireball-dude would realize his main win condition is largely uneffective and inefficient.

That and most of the other people run counter spells or wacky cards like Hallow.

In general, I prefer Fanning the Flames or even Rolling Thunder over Fireball, but that's neither here nor there against Hallow, and chances are you are going to win if I'm tapping 9 mana to burn you for 4 with buyback and you're only tapping 4 mana or something to gain that life back.

[Matt]

Here's my slightly-updated Aggro list. It's pretty good, but some slots are debateable.

//Black (5)
  1 Phyrexian Reclamation
  1 Shadow Guildmage
  1 Dauthi Marauder
  1 Dauthi Horror
  1 Bone Shredder

//Blue (5)
  1 Hoodwink
  1 Steamcore Weird
  1 Trinket Mage
  1 Aven Fogbringer
  1 Sea Drake

//White (5)
  1 Steelshaper's Gift
  1 Shrieking Grotesque
  1 Soltari Trooper
  1 Kami of Ancient Law
  1 Mother of Runes

//Red (6)
  1 Magma Jet
  1 Lightning Bolt
  1 Dwarven Miner
  1 Dwarven Blastminer
  1 Tin Street Hooligan
  1 Flametongue Kavu

//Green (5)
  1 Moldervine Cloak
  1 Granger Guildmage
  1 Thornscape Battlemage
  1 Eternal Witness
  1 Dryad Sophisticate

//Gold (4)
  1 Recoil
  1 Moroii
  1 Selesnya Evangel
  1 Selesnya Guildmage

//Artifacts (6)
  1 Etched Oracle
  1 Skullclamp
  1 Bonesplitter
  1 AEther Vial
  1 Sensei's Divining Top
  1 Phyrexian Furnace

//Lands
  1 Treetop Village
  1 Wasteland

  1 Gemstone Mine
  1 Mirrodin's Core

  1 Tranquil Garden
  1 Lantern-Lit Graveyard
  1 Waterveil Cavern

  1 Boros Garrison
  1 Golgari Rot Farm
  1 Dimir Aqueduct
  1 Selesnya Sanctuary
  1 Gruul Turf
  1 Izzet Boilerworks
  1 Orzhov Basilica
  1 Azorius Chancery
  1 Rakdos Carnarium

  1 Plains
  1 Forest
  2 Island
  2 Swamp
  2 Mountain

Evangel is not very good, but Guildmage is. What's a better replacement? Watchwolf? Wax/Wane?

FTK and Bone Shredder awesome removal but lame as creatures since the first doesn't evade and the second is obviously not a good attacker. Could these be better as, like, Incinerate and Terror?

It seems like I never use Reclamation. I so rarely have two mana spare. Is there anything better?

I think I have too many bouncelands. How many is too many? And what do I replace them with?

I almost want to play Ghost Quarter, just to whack a bounceland.

[EnialisLiadon]

That's so wierd--I just started testing Ghost Quarter today.  It was okay when I drew it.  I was only able to kill a freshly-played bounceland once with it, but the tempo it brought was pretty awesome.  Being able to kill lands like Vitu-Ghazi, Mishra's Factory and other manlands was pretty cool as well.

How's Phyrexian Furnace for you?  I'd personally want Crystal Shard, with so many awesome CIP creatures.

[Jacob Orlove]

Evangel is not very good, but Guildmage is. What's a better replacement? Watchwolf? Wax/Wane?

Cut a blue card and add Azorius Guildmage and Coiling Oracle.

[Matt]

I dunno man, I have serious doubts about AGM. I rarely have that kind of mana free (or even that kind of mana, period). And I would definitely rather Trygon Predator than a damn 1/1.

[matyburger]

Evangel is not very good, but Guildmage is. What's a better replacement? Watchwolf? Wax/Wane?

Cut a blue card and add Azorius Guildmage and Coiling Oracle.

Assault Zeppelid or Trygon Predator would probably be a better choice than Coiling Oracle -  I'm not very sold on it, only because it seems unlikely to have UG up on turn 2 (especially with all of the bouncelands), which is to me the only useful time to play it. Any later than that, it seems like you're just getting a 1/1 cantrip out of it, and I'd rather just play a creature that's going to give me the chance to win the game quicker, as well as utility/evasion.

Just for reference, here's the list I'm playing:

Black (5)
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Terror
1 Honden of Night's Reach
1 Smother
1 Trench Wurm

Blue (5)
1 Shoreline Ranger
1 Annex
1 Probe
1 Honden of Seeing Winds
1 Steamcore Weird

White (6)
1 Honden of Cleansing Fire
1 Radiant's Dragoons
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Kami of Ancient Law
1 Orim's Thunder
1 Faith's Fetters

Red (6)
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Ghost-Lit Raider
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Fireball
1 Honden of Infinite Rage
1 Dwarven Blastminer

Green (5)
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Civic Wayfinder
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Eternal Witness

Artifact (7)
1 Crystal Shard
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Etched Oracle
1 Sun Droplet
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skullclamp

Multi (8)
1 Mortify
1 Trygon Predator
1 Moroii
1 Assault Zeppelid
1 Hull Breach
1 Putrefy
1 Terminate
1 Hazerider Drake

Lands (21)
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Gruul Turf
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree
1 Terminal Moraine
1 Treetop Village
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Mishra's Factory

Most of the card choices are rather standard (and I prefer running 7 of each card and 21 land rather than 6 of each and 24), although I've found Hazerider Drake (2UW, 2/3 Flying, Protection from Red) to be great - not only did I need a random U/W card to fill the slot, but it blocks most of the small creatures in the format, has evasion, and dodges a lot of the removal available. Also, Ghost-Lit Raider has been golden for me - he comes down and slows down aggro, or channels to get rid of a larger guy (and is quite nice with reclamation in play).

[Nomad]

Life/Death is the tech.

I used to play it for a long time, but it never really seemed to pull its weight.  As soon as Ravnica came out it was packing its bags.  Very rare to need to win by bashing with lands, and the life loss from the other half was usually a real consideration.  Jacob's comment about lifegain being really useful holds true.  Our local meta has alot of random aggro too, I've lost count of the number of games a random Sun Droplet has won for me...

[unknown.root]

I had a thought last night while at work.

Can Mana Drain be playable? sure it's UU but it can stop a fat spell and fuel your fat spells.

Just a thought

Kevin

[Philatio]

I had a thought last night while at work.

Can Mana Drain be playable? sure it's UU but it can stop a fat spell and fuel your fat spells.

Just a thought

Kevin

Two days ago I drained an X spell with X = 12 into a lethal fanning the flames.  The other option was to draw 15 cards in 2 turns, but I went the simple route.  I think drain is pretty good, but I play it in a deck with the full suite of manlands, so if I don't have a fat spell, I have something to dump some of the mana into to prevent burn.

[Philatio]

Evangel is not very good, but Guildmage is. What's a better replacement? Watchwolf? Wax/Wane?

Charging Troll?  I like him, since he is also a sweet defender.

[Anusien]

Now that Coldsnap is in, some of the cards look exciting (like Skred, Grim Harvest and the Scrying and Shotgun Lands), is there any reason to run basics?  Snow lands seem almost strictly better.

[Nomad]

We had quite a number of people from different play groups having a go with Skittles yesterday; Travis brought his deck along but made T8, while Ray didn't so played against Ultima and got all his land destroyed from what I saw.  Eddie had a Honden control that gets owned by anything vaguely aggro, I loaned out my domain deck and Harriet's sliver deck to whoever wanted to play them.

[Jacob Orlove]

Fun! Who is bringing a Skittles deck to Waterbury?

[Philatio]

Fun! Who is bringing a Skittles deck to Waterbury?

I was planning on it and would give my left nut to go, but alas I cannot, I think.  Blame Simon.  Of all the people in the world that are completely unlikely to have a business trip, supposedly he does.  Unless he wants to skip day 1 but still do day 2.

Phil

[Nomad]

I was planning on it and would give my left nut to go, but alas I cannot, I think.  Blame Simon.  Of all the people in the world that are completely unlikely to have a business trip, supposedly he does.  Unless he wants to skip day 1 but still do day 2.

I'm going to England, won't be back 'til mid-late Aug, so day 2 is not an option for me.

Beyond that, Harriet might be talked into going, and I have a spare car that is automatic and driving fine, and you can borrow it if you like.

Jacob - are you running a formalised tournament or just random pick up?  I think you'll have the numbers if not too many of the Jersey shore guys place in the day 2 main event...

[Jacob Orlove]

Just random pickup day 1. Day 2, I'm leaving insanely early (like 9:30 AM), so if I can somehow get some games in before that, sweet, but I'm not expecting anything then.

[horse the name]

Eddie had a Honden control that gets owned by anything vaguely aggro, I loaned out my domain deck and Harriet's sliver deck to whoever wanted to play them.

Hey guys, this is Eddie. I should be able to make it to Waterbury, and if I do, I'll definitely bring Skittles.  But I'd be playing a different list as people seem to be prepared for the Hondens now... 

[Anusien]

First question: if I put up some scripts somewhere that read in your decklist and gave Skittles legality (banned list, but more importantly color breakdown), how helpful would you all find that?  Or is no one else having trouble calculating the mixed colors in their deck?

Also, what about thoughts on colors since Dissension?  How many bouncelands do you all find yourselves running, and what about the new splits, and cards like Leafdrake Roost and Ocular Halo?

[Jacob Orlove]

I'm running the four G/x bouncelands, plus U/B and U/W. The split cards seem insanely tricky to run for not much advantage.

Is Leafdrake Roost any good? It seems slow, but I can see how it could be very powerful.

Oracular Halo seems like an invitation to get 3-for-1'd (since they'll be using a 2-for-1 like FTK to kill the creature anyway).

Edit: it's been several pages since I last posted my list, so here it is (note: skittles article coming soon, but I'm going to see if MTG.com is interested before I send it in to SCG)

Green:
Eternal Witness
Yavimaya Elder
Civic Wayfinder
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Patagia Viper

Black:
Phyrexian Reclamation
Haunted Crossroads
Gravedigger
Nightmare Void

Blue:
Drift of Phantasms
Trinket Mage
Exclude

Red:
Avalanche Riders
Flametongue Kavu
Fire Imp
Thunderscape Battlemage
Tin Street Hooligan
Firebolt

White:
Swords to Plowshares
Azorius Herald
Orim's Thunder
Seed Spark
Faith's Fetters

Gold:
Selesnya Guildmage
Azorius Guildmage
Coiling Oracle

Dimir Guildmage
Moroii
Perplex
Clutch of the Undercity

Artifact:
Crystal Shard
Aether Vial
Skullclamp
Etched Oracle
Sensei's Divining Top
Fellwar Stone

Lands:
Gemstone Mine
Mirrodin's Core
Wasteland
Mishra's Factory
Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree
Selesnya Sanctuary
Golgari Rot Farm
Gruul Turf
Simic Growth Chamber
Dimir Aqueduct
Azorius Chancery
Pendelhaven
Treetop Vilalge
Tranquil Thicket
Slippery Karst
Salt Marsh
Snow-Covered Forest
Snow-Covered Island
Snow-Covered Swamp
Forest
Island
Swamp
Plains
Mountain

[Cross]

Anyone seen anything playable in coldsnap?

Jotun grunt is interesting, as a lot of decks work to abuse the 'yard. Also combos well with clamp.

@Jacob, how is azorius herald? It seems worse than the echo gain life creatures, as you can at least clamp those.

[Jacob Orlove]

I have Dragoons in the board, but Herald is awesome. It's one mana cheaper, or FIVE cheaper if you want to keep it around, and the evasion is pretty sweet. Sure, he's slightly harder to use for pure lifegain recursion (except with Shard), but being a much better card totally makes up for that.

[EnialisLiadon]

I agree with Jacob--I love Azorious Herald, with Crystal Shard or not.

As for Coldsnap, the only card that strikes me as playable would probably be Mouth of Ronom.  Creature kill is pretty good, I suppose.  I might consider testing Vanish Into Memory, but I'm willing to bet it's too situational to merit a slot.

[Anusien]

Here's where I'm at.  I'd really like help maximizing my creature count; at the moment I have a white and a blue spot open.  I think Nagao, Bound by Honor or Jhotun Grunt (post Coldsnap) is going into one and either Compulsive Research, Aven Fogbringer or Silkwing Scout is going into the other.  Notable changes include the inclusion of Ghost Quarter and the cutting of Ancient Tomb (no point with 10 bouncelands).

Ark of Blight
Wayfarer's Bauble
Icy Manipulator
Fellwar Stone
Skullclamp
Etched Oracle

Stream of Acid
Nightscape Battlemage
Twisted Abomination
Trench Wurm

Eternal Witness
Kodama's Reach
Thornscape Battlemage
Reap and Sow
Civic Wayfinder

Ogre Arsonist
Avalanche Riders
Ravaging Horde
Goblin Settler

Memory Lapse
Exclude
Remand
Trinket Mage
OPEN

Faith's Fetters
Swords to Plowshares
Orim's Thunder
Benalish Emissary
Dismantling Blow
OPEN

Plague Spores
Moroii
Wrecking Ball
Fumarole
Temporal Spring
Frenzied Tilling

Snow-Covered Forest
Snow-Covered Island
Snow-Covered Mountain
Snow-Covered Plains
Snow-Covered Swamp
Forest
Island
Mountain
Plains
Swmap
Azorius Chancery
Boros Garrison
Dimir Aqueduct
Golgari Rot Farm
Gruul Turf
Izzet Boilerworks
Orzhov Basilica
Rakdos Carnarium
Selesnya Sanctuary
Simic Growth Chamber
Gemstone Mine
Mirrodin's Core
Wasteland
Ghost Quarter

[Cross]

Why play all of the citp destroy a land creatures, and not dwarven miner? Miner is completely retarded if he sticks, and hes an easy turn 2/3 play.

For white there's always seed spark, which I have relaly come to like.

[Jacob Orlove]

Yeah, I definitely prefer Seed Spark to Dismantling Blow.

I need to try out Ghost Quarter. Is it really all that good against bouncelands?

Also, wow @ all 10 bouncelands. I get the occasional all-bounceland hand with just 6 of them. Is that a major problem for you?

Finally, I'm pretty sure 5 of each basic and 5 of each snow basic can't be right, because some colors have to be slightly more important than other colors, right? There's gotta be some kind of swaps you can make, like -plains +Pendelhaven.

[Anusien]

Seed Spark versus Dismantling Blow:
I can definitely see where you could be right; I rarely ever kick Dismantling Blow, but for some reason I like to claim the ability to do it.  I'm wondering whether the 3 versus 4 is significant; I'm inclined to doubt it since I can make 4 mana off three lands.

Bounce Lands:
Yeah, well it turns out at least half of the ones I added from Guildpact/Dissension were replacing deplete lands.  It's probable that I need to balance the colors, but that's a significant task, and the mana is running really well.  I keep finding that hitting 4 mana on turn 4 is essential (the FT of the deck dropped when I pulled cards like Hoodwink and Recoil), and since I can do that with 3 lands with the bouncelands.  I also pulled Ancient Tomb.  I can probably scale back a Plains for something; most likely a Vitu-Ghazi because I only have a single 1/1 so Pendelhaven is pretty bad. 

I've looked at Dwarven Miner, and two things are holding me back.  #1: He's fragile.  The reason Trench Wurm made the cut is because Wrecking Ball got printed, replacing Befoul and freeing up some slots.  Trench Wurm is a respectable beater on his own right, but Dwarven Miner, with a butt of 2, is a huge threat.  (If I chose that route, Orcish Settlers is probably even better).  #2: I'm not sure how good it is to nail non-basics.  Yes, people play a lot of them, but there are at least 1/3 basics in each deck.  With the other red creatures, I'm absolutely hitting a land each time.

[Cross]

IDK to me, he seems strong because he's so easy to cast and comes down so early. I've had people scoop to me because I played him on turn 2 and their only plays involved karoos.

He seems better than ravaging horde to me, which is a mid-to late game card at best.

[Anusien]

IDK to me, he seems strong because he's so easy to cast and comes down so early. I've had people scoop to me because I played him on turn 2 and their only plays involved karoos.

He seems better than ravaging horde to me, which is a mid-to late game card at best.

In all the games I've played, if I made a 2 drop that couldn't start nuking lands, it would A) get in the way of playing karoos (or not come down until turn 3), and B) seems way too fragile.  It just seems like too many things in the format can 187 him without even struggling.  It's possible he's worth it, but Ravaging Horde provides a large body, which is helpful, and I do happen to have 17 sources of red mana + bauble.

[Philatio]

How many people brought skittles decks to Waterbury?  Was there an imprompteau event Day 2?  Stories, tech?