Living Death

[Philatio]

This came up in a casual multiplayer game the other day.

Living Death is a spell where multiple things happen during the resolution of a spell, but in a speciified order (Oracle text: "Each player removes all creature cards in his or her graveyard from the game, then sacrifices all creatures he or she controls, then puts into play all cards he or she removed this way.").

In this particular example, I had Vulturous Zombie (Oracle text"Flying.  Whenever a card is put into an opponent’s graveyard from anywhere, put a +1/+1 counter on Vulturous Zombie.") in my graveyard.  A whole ton of creatures left the board, and the VZ and other things came into play.  Will the VZ "see" the creatures leave play and get counters, since the same spell did both things?  Or does the order of actions matter in mid-resolution when putting triggers on the stack?  And said triggers only resolve once the original action (Living Death, in this case) have finished resolving, right?

[vartemis]

I will take a crack at this.

The Zombie shouldnt get any counters.  while all the in-play creatures are going to the graveyard, it is removed from the game.  By the time it comes into play via living death, all the creatures are in the graveyard and don't trigger its ability.

"Both players remove their creature cards at once. Then both players sacrifice all creature they control at once. Then both players put all creatures they removed into play. If there are any choices involved for a given step, the current player makes their choices first, then the other player, and finally you do the action all at once." - from gatherer



j

[epeeguy]

"Both players remove their creature cards at once. Then both players sacrifice all creature they control at once. Then both players put all creatures they removed into play. If there are any choices involved for a given step, the current player makes their choices first, then the other player, and finally you do the action all at once." - from gatherer

Not sure where you got that, but the current Oracle text of Living Death is:

Each player removes all creature cards in his or her graveyard from the game, then sacrifices all creatures he or she controls, then puts into play all cards he or she removed this way.

But your answer is basically correct.  The ability of Vulturous Zombie will only function (and therefore trigger) when it is in play.  Since the creatures are sacrificed before the Vulturous Zombie is in play, then its ability can't trigger (as it wasn't in play when the cards went to the graveyard).

[vartemis]

i grabbed it right from wizard's gatherer fro up to date oracle wordings.

j

[epeeguy]

i grabbed it right from wizard's gatherer fro up to date oracle wordings.

With respect, the text that I quoted is from Gatherer.  I also know that WotC has dropped the usage of such things as "at once".  Likewise, I certainly know that there's no need to include text such as "If there are any choices for a given step...", as it is not relevant to the card's ability and effect.  There's no "step" in Living Death.

So, I don't know where that text you quoted came from, but it's not the Oracle text of Living Death.  The text I quoted came directly from the Oracle in Gatherer and was simply cut and paste.

[vartemis]

oh hehehe.  yeah i grabbed it from official rulings underneath the card pic because this ruling specifically applied to this question.  I shouldnt have used the word oracle as it caused confusion.  What I meant was that I went to the oracle site and grabbed one of the official rulings.

Oct 4, 2004 - The creatures which are put in the graveyard can't be regenerated.

Oct 4, 2004 - Both player's creatures from this are considered to enter play simultaneously. So if two of the same Legendary permanent enter play, both will be put into the graveyard.

Oct 4, 2004 - Both players remove their creature cards at once. Then both players sacrifice all creature they control at once. Then both players put all creatures they removed into play. If there are any choices involved for a given step, the current player makes their choices first, then the other player, and finally you do the action all at once.

do you see where i got it?

j

[epeeguy]

oh hehehe.  yeah i grabbed it from official rulings underneath the card pic because this ruling specifically applied to this question.  I shouldnt have used the word oracle as it caused confusion.  What I meant was that I went to the oracle site and grabbed one of the official rulings.

Ahhh, now that begins to make sense.  Yes, that is definitely not the Oracle wording of the card.  Yes, it is a ruling (or, more specifically, a clarification on how the card works) that is for Living Death; but Oracle wording is the actual text on the card (or what should be on the card if it were printed today).  The two are very different.

But yes, that ruling effectively describes the process for how Living Death functions.  Hence why your description and analysis were okay, but calling that "Oracle text" wasn't.  More of a nitpick than anything else (but I did want to make it clear what is, and is not, Oracle text in case there was confusion from anyone else who may have seen that and noticed it being different from what shows in Gatherer).