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Moxlotus
Teh Absolut Ballz
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Where the fuck are my pants?
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2005, 08:25:13 pm » |
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I don't know how they make them, but I do know those things are illegal x infinite. You can't produce and sell fake cards-you can sell something and "throw in" fake cards, but not just sell proxies.
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2005, 08:32:15 pm » |
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Wow.
The only thing more disgusting than the concept of a foil Black Lotus
is the concept of some poor idiot dropping $100 on a foil fake set of power.
A fool and his money...
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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Buttons
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2005, 08:51:02 pm » |
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Wouldn't www.perfectpower9.com be lawsuited out the wazoo, then, if you can't sell proxies? I mean, obviously they're fake as Wizards has never made FOIL power, so what constitutes a proxy? If I write, "Black Lotus," on a card, is it considered a proxy, and can I get in trouble for selling it on ebay? Maybe I don't exactly understand why it would be illegal to make a FOIL proxy like the ones here and sell them. Perhaps you could explain to me how making a card that looks clearly different from the original, and then selling it on ebay is illegal? |
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« Last Edit: November 06, 2005, 08:48:32 am by Buttons »
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Ephraim
Adepts
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Posts: 2938
The Casual Adept
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2005, 10:59:25 pm » |
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I'm sure the law/WotC's lawyers disagree with me, but selling a foiled replica of a hard-to-find card almost seems more like an artistic endeavor than selling just a proxy.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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vartemis
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2005, 11:16:20 pm » |
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wizards should just sell a liscence for people to print proxies and get a cut from it. heck, they should print their own with big ugly "not for tournament play" across the back or front. and then they should print money, because just about as likely to happen.
j
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Machinus
Keldon Ancient
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2005, 03:15:59 am » |
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The website that claims their proxies pass many common tests is disturbing. I haven't seen the cards up close, but the pictures on that page are scary.
The authenticity of many counterfeit cards is modestly difficult to detect. If that company moves a significant amount of fake power, it could cause a problem in the general card market. The last thing Vintage needs right now is a serious fake power scam.
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T1: Arsenal
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nataz
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Mighty Mighty Maine-Tone
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2005, 03:17:25 am » |
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depending on how good the "proxies" were, I'd actually say that it wouldn't be a bad thing at all.
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I will write Peace on your wings
and you will fly around the world
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Eddie
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Posts: 361
Mr. Monster
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2005, 03:22:58 am » |
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Also, why doesn't perfectpower9 offer an emerald? Seems odd to me. I'm tempted to just buy one and see how good it is, and use some destructive test on them.
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No room in the house exceeds a length of twenty-five feet, let alone fifty feet, let alone fifty-six and a half feet, and yet Chad and Daisy's voices are echoing, each call responding with an entirely separate answer. In the living room, Navidson discovers the echoes emanating from a dark, doorless hallway which has appeared out of nowhere in the west wall.
House of Leaves - Danielewski
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Magi
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2005, 03:34:04 am » |
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I saw a few of these at GP Seattle this summer. Some guys were trying to sell them.
They look really neat and authentic, although upon really close inspection the flaws become more evident.
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vartemis
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2005, 11:10:53 am » |
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I saw a few of these at GP Seattle this summer. Some guys were trying to sell them.
They look really neat and authentic, although upon really close inspection the flaws become more evident.
would you mind passing on the flaws so people can know what to look for in specific? j |
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Lunar
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2005, 03:28:49 pm » |
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well they are foil...that is a good place to start when trying to figure out if they are real........unless im misunderstanding your question.
The proxies do look great, and actually arent too terribly hard to re-create...a friend of mine got some of the first ones as a test to see what they could be sold at...we figured between $30-50....they are just older style foil cards that have been properly wiped of their original text and stuff, then redone on high quality printing equipment to become power I guess...
the thickness and weight is the main reason why they cant be legal for proxies, but they do look good, and probably most smaller tournies will still allow them...
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Dozer - "TMD is not a place where everyone can just post what was revealed to them in their latest wet dream"
Webster - "most of the deck is pimped, like my insane shirt, which exudes a level of pimpness only to be expressed as sublime."
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Royal Ass.
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2005, 08:08:33 pm » |
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Lunar, the last few posts have been about www.theperfectpower9.com. Has anyone contacted Wizards about this site? Do they know of its existance? I know it istn't worth their time to go after every punk on ebay that tries to sell some shitty proxy, but this site is pretty blatant. I don't have problem with proxies that look like, or are labled as proxes. But cards that are an attempt to replicate the real thing beyond detection are different. |
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forests failed you
De Stijl
Adepts
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Posts: 2018
Venerable Saint
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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2005, 01:39:30 am » |
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Shakes his head in disgust.
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Grand Prix Boston 2012 Champion
Follow me on Twitter: @BrianDeMars1
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Tha Gunslinga
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Posts: 1583
De-Errata Mystical Tutor!
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« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2005, 12:23:49 pm » |
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Lunar, the last few posts have been about www.theperfectpower9.com. Has anyone contacted Wizards about this site? Do they know of its existance? I know it istn't worth their time to go after every punk on ebay that tries to sell some shitty proxy, but this site is pretty blatant. I don't have problem with proxies that look like, or are labled as proxes. But cards that are an attempt to replicate the real thing beyond detection are different. It's been reported by multiple people. You might notice what test they specifically don't mention: the eyeball test. These are probably printed on top of real cards, and the eyeball test would catch them, I would think. |
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Don't tolerate splittin'
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Buttons
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« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2005, 12:31:55 pm » |
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They look pretty real to me. I'd like to see one of them in person to see if I could spot the differences between the real one and that one. What's WOTC doing about it? Does anyone know? Because that's DEFINITELY illegal. I, personally, wouldn't think the foil ones would be, but def. the www.perfectpower9.com. |
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« Last Edit: November 07, 2005, 06:30:55 pm by Buttons »
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Lunar
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« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2005, 02:21:53 pm » |
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Ah I see...I was replying on topic to somebody off topic, heh..my bad...well minus the first sentance my other post still stands, heh.
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Dozer - "TMD is not a place where everyone can just post what was revealed to them in their latest wet dream"
Webster - "most of the deck is pimped, like my insane shirt, which exudes a level of pimpness only to be expressed as sublime."
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cosineme
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« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2005, 10:35:00 am » |
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Lunar, the last few posts have been about www.theperfectpower9.com. Has anyone contacted Wizards about this site? Do they know of its existance? I know it istn't worth their time to go after every punk on ebay that tries to sell some shitty proxy, but this site is pretty blatant. I don't have problem with proxies that look like, or are labled as proxes. But cards that are an attempt to replicate the real thing beyond detection are different. It's been reported by multiple people. You might notice what test they specifically don't mention: the eyeball test. These are probably printed on top of real cards, and the eyeball test would catch them, I would think. The eye ball test? i'm assuming that just means use your eyes? Also, would these proxies hold under a microscope or a magnifier glass? WOTC's print machine has a certain quality to it, namely octagonal, that lower quality printers don' utilize... or so i've heard, and it seems true what i've looked at. |
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Just moved from Ann Arbor to Chicago. Even had a chance to play a bit with some of the famed Ann Arbor players.
Help me find a magic store in downtown Chicago
AKA effang
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oldbsturgeon
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2005, 12:00:33 pm » |
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just to let you know, they were on ebay as well, though not now. i was curious like eddie, so i got one and when it arrives i will certainly let everyone know of the dangers this could possibly do to the market. they seem very realistic, though i imagine that they are printed differently and thus do not have the octogonal pattern.
but when it arrives i will let everyone know.
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Buttons
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« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2005, 01:53:59 pm » |
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Oldbsturgeon, please do.
I'd really like to have a report about these cards.
Thank you.
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oldbsturgeon
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2005, 02:08:11 pm » |
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obviously if they are really good, and only different on the microscopic level, this could be dangerous for the market.
i know that when i have gotten all of my real power, i use a magnifiying glass to check and see if the octagon pattern is present. so far so good
if these have them though, who knows what this means.
in WV we have been hit with "super bills" that can pass the counterfieting pens and everything, so its not unimaginable that someone could do the same with cards too.
scary
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Royal Ass.
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« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2005, 06:32:07 pm » |
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Dear David, Thank you for your email. I will forward this onto our legal department for review. Best regards, Pat Corporate Information [Wizards of the Coast] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 5:18 PM To: Corporate Info Subject: Fake cards http://www.perfectpower9.com/home.html This site bothers me as a collector. Just wanted to bring it to your attention and wonder if you guys take action against people who sell high quality look a like cards such as this. Thanks David |
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Mykeatog
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« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2005, 12:26:34 am » |
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Though the process that makes these cards is fairly common practice now, when these originally came out about 2 years ago, the store in Maryland that was distributing them lost their 'premier store' status, and all higher level events (GPT's, and JSS's), because they aren't more than 20% different they are illegal. The reason that gamingetc tokens are legal because they are different enough from Magic cards that a clear difference can be seen. I expect that the website that is selling that stuff will recieve some sort of cease and desist order now that the boys at Wizards are on top of it.
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Free Agent
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cosineme
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« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2005, 09:55:08 am » |
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Yeah, the faster WOTC cracks down the better, but that still does nothing to stop the ease of which decent "realistic" proxies can be made from the old cards. How come this is such a large problem in MTG cards? you never hear about this for sports cards or other WAY more expensive things?
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Just moved from Ann Arbor to Chicago. Even had a chance to play a bit with some of the famed Ann Arbor players.
Help me find a magic store in downtown Chicago
AKA effang
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vartemis
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« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2005, 10:29:40 am » |
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Magic should do what UpperDeck did with VS. They should turn the set symbol into a foil logo, or put one in the bottom. If you look at upper deck cards (sports or vs) they have a little foil seal with their logo in it. That is next to impossible to recreate, unless you have the actual foil which would be kept under lock and key at the printers. A little symbol in the bottom of magic cards is a small price to pay to keep counterfeits down.
j
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Bulls on Parade
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« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2005, 10:50:38 am » |
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Magic should do what UpperDeck did with VS. They should turn the set symbol into a foil logo, or put one in the bottom. If you look at upper deck cards (sports or vs) they have a little foil seal with their logo in it. That is next to impossible to recreate, unless you have the actual foil which would be kept under lock and key at the printers. A little symbol in the bottom of magic cards is a small price to pay to keep counterfeits down.
j
But, have you ever seen someone counterfeit a card that is still in print? |
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MOTL: Whoever said "Don't argue with idiots; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience," wasn't joking.
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vartemis
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« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2005, 11:00:53 am » |
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Magic should do what UpperDeck did with VS. They should turn the set symbol into a foil logo, or put one in the bottom. If you look at upper deck cards (sports or vs) they have a little foil seal with their logo in it. That is next to impossible to recreate, unless you have the actual foil which would be kept under lock and key at the printers. A little symbol in the bottom of magic cards is a small price to pay to keep counterfeits down.
j
But, have you ever seen someone counterfeit a card that is still in print? Obviously no one is going to reprint cards that are out now... but what about in the future? I cant think of anything off the top of my head... but say in another 10 years from now... what will the value of the current sets be? will gifts be a $50-75 dollar card? who knows... j |
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PemsAura
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« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2005, 11:52:36 am » |
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The way the cards were likely made with the foil face and falling star foil symbol in the lower left corner is by removing the foiling form an old foil card. With some of the older foils you can peel off the foil and leave a non foil card unlike the newer foils where you end up peeling off the whole thing and leaving a blank card.
~Nate
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Member of Team Topdeck 2004
Knowledge can stand on a pillar of air as long as it never looks down.
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Mark_Story
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« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2005, 03:06:01 pm » |
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If someone was really interested in making really good proxies they could. Any offset litho press can do it. Problem is that it is far more profitable to print fake money.
With that said, I don't think that it is a good idea, to print proxies that can pass all the claimed tests, especially because they are only for 'playtesting' or unsleeved play (who the hell does that?) The foil ones I think are safer, due to them being foil, and therefore completely recognizable. I feel sorry for the sucker who pays $100 for fake non-legal proxy power though. Seems a bit crazy to pay that kind of money for proxies though, they are just ink/colour laser outputs most of the time. If you were really hard up you could do them at kinko's for 2.99 a page
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