Grim Long FAQ

[Illuvatar Reborn]

even though i havent read the article yet(i dont have a premium account), ive read many of your other works, and cant wait to read this one.
i do have one question though: how, exactly, would you play when your opponent drops a turn one trini?
ive played through it, and though sometimes difficult(opponent following up with moxes and smokestack(s)) ive managed to win some games.
and futhermore: what is some general advice for a newb at the deck?

[Smmenen]

Well if you have six mana on turn one, you da man.  You win anyway.

I think anyone who has six mana on turn one wins in type one, no matter who you are. 

[Slack]

I think the general plan against a turn 1 trinisphere is to draw into lands + Elvish Spirit Guide + Rebuild.  Or tutor for a Rebuild if you can get enough lands into play.  The thing to remember is that trinisphere itself, while bad for you, does not make you lose.  T1 trinisphere or T1 chalice at zero or 1 or even two isn't a scoop.

What you really need to fear is other lock components coming online after a trinisphere.  This obviously will happen eventually, as the stax player is not going to sit there while you develop a mana base.

I seem to remember that Smmenen's list was designed for a stax heavy metagame, but I could be wrong on that.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the article.

[Smmenen]

That is correct.

One of the best ways to beat 3Sphere is to be on the play so you can drop a mox

Seriously, if they play turn one trini, you have two options.

First, you can try to get three lands in play or land, land and ESG and then Grim Tutor or other tutor for Hurkys or you can try to build up land, esg, esg Hurkyl's. 

When I played DeathLong, I expected Stax to play turn one Trinisphere every game becuase it was unrestricted.  As such, if I wasn't going to win on turn one, I would Dark Ritual Death Wish for Hurkyl's REcall in anticipation of needing to remove it. 

To the person who hasnt' read the article, go read my death long articles.  They apply. 

EDIT:

I was testing the deck tonight against some new control decks meandeck is working on, and I must say, Grim Long is still very strong.  I would seriously entertain it as a powerful candidate for Rochester.  The only game I lost was a game I had to mull to 5:
my opponent went first and I played land, ESG, ESG Windfall discarding a land and a Dark Ritual.
I drew Duress, Vamp, Brainstorm, and a land and he went off on turn three with a Drain combo deck.

[Illuvatar Reborn]

thanks for the imput!

[Lunar]

I was testing the deck tonight against some new control decks meandeck is working on, and I must say, Grim Long is still very strong.  I would seriously entertain it as a powerful candidate for Rochester.  The only game I lost was a game I had to mull to 5:

If I was going to be reasonably sure id be playing mostly control all day I would LOVE to play grimlong...maybe its just me, but I find the control matchup to be rather easy, with the solutions the deck provides, control is laughable at times.  Playing through multiple counters is so simple with this deck, between just a large amount of "must" counters and duress and Xantid, control is in for a hell of a time.

[Smmenen]

I still think that Control is the hardest matchup, period, for Grim Long becuase of its potential to just combo out before you do at the same time it counters your spells.  If you think that you have no trouble at all beating control, then I see no reason for you not to just master the Stax matchup, put in a bit more stax hate and go to town. 

[tidal kraken]

I still think that Control is the hardest matchup, period, for Grim Long becuase of its potential to just combo out before you do at the same time it counters your spells.  If you think that you have no trouble at all beating control, then I see no reason for you not to just master the Stax matchup, put in a bit more stax hate and go to town. 

I could be way off here, but I've found aggro/control to be the most difficult. They have a conterbase, and they can have a clock on you (albeit a semi-slow one, but it's faster than traditional control). Post sb it becomes a lot easier with balance, dsc, and more xantid swarms, but it's been the only matchup I've had problems with so far.

Also, amazing job on the article. Infinite thanks for it.

[Smmenen]

I think bringing in Xantid Swarm against Fish is a mistake, in my testing.  The key threats are Rod/Chalice, Wasteland, and Force of Will.  To a lesser extent you can run into Daze and Stifle, but these are not as threatening unless you go for an early Desire that gets Stifled.   In either case, in my experience, if you Duress on turn one you almost never see a hand like this:

Fetchland
Wasteland
FOW
blue card
Null Rod
Daze
Stifle


More likely, they will have one or at most two cards you need to take and the others will just be annoying. 

For example, a more realistic hand might be:

Wasteland
Manland
Fetchland
Force of Will
Cloud of Faeries
Meddling Mage
Standstill

You only really want to take the FOW.  You then konw they have Wasteland - so anticipate it, and then go nuts with your first bomb.  The only thing I really fear from Fish is their topdeck getting lucky. 

I actually also disagree with the statement that Aggro-Control is faster than control decks.  Aggro Control is arguably the slowest deck in the format - even slower than Stax.  Control, on the other hand, is often as fast as this deck.  Gifts and Control slaver and Oath can and do win by turn 4 with surprising consistency. 

[tidal kraken]

I think bringing in Xantid Swarm against Fish is a mistake, in my testing.  The key threats are Rod/Chalice, Wasteland, and Force of Will.  To a lesser extent you can run into Daze and Stifle, but these are not as threatening unless you go for an early Desire that gets Stifled.   In either case, in my experience, if you Duress on turn one you almost never see a hand like this:

Fetchland
Wasteland
FOW
blue card
Null Rod
Daze
Stifle


More likely, they will have one or at most two cards you need to take and the others will just be annoying. 

For example, a more realistic hand might be:

Wasteland
Manland
Fetchland
Force of Will
Cloud of Faeries
Meddling Mage
Standstill

You only really want to take the FOW.  You then konw they have Wasteland - so anticipate it, and then go nuts with your first bomb.  The only thing I really fear from Fish is their topdeck getting lucky. 

That's what one problem has been. My opponent was topdecking better than I ever have. I also was tired due to lack of sleep over the weekend. I'll keep your reccomendations in mind. Thanks.

[nicofromtokyo]

Sorry to put this post out from the deeps, but the article about Grim Long is at least available for the non-Premium jerk member like me, and I wanted to know one more thing about the deck.

First, thanks Smennen-san for your reply on your article regarding the mutli-color mana base + Fetch against multicolor lands. But you forgot to answer (or I wasn't able to find this answer?) regarding the use of Fastbond. You can afford this card with the Cities and Mines, and the synergy with the Draw7 is just amazing. I still think it should be integrated to the deck; could you convince me of the opposite? 

[jpmeyer]

Please don't bump three month old threads[/color]