Mono-Green ... don't laugh, I'm serious ...

[knickers]

This might be posted in the "Vintage Improvement Forum" ... but I've very serious about improving it ...
This is just a little deck my friend and I use to play around with. I never played it in a tournament, but he did and had a pretty good time with it (I believe he took 1st in one tournament, lol) ...

Mono-Green

Maindeck (60)

(18)
4x Sylvan Library
4x Uba Mask
3x Root Maze
3x Naturalize
4x Chalice of the Void

(20)
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Llanowar Elf
4x Ravenous Baloth
3x Iwamori of the Open Fist
3x Veridian Zealot
2x Eternal Witness

(22)
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
4x Wasteland
1x Strip mine
3x Ancient Tomb
8x Forest
4x Windswept Heath

Sideboard (15)
4x Oxidize
3x Null Rod
3x Ground Seal
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Naturalize
1x Viridian Zealot

[the boogie man]

why not run skullclamp as a draw engine and a way to pump your bigger creatures?

[knickers]

why not run skullclamp as a draw engine and a way to pump your bigger creatures?

Skullclamp doesn't really come into the game plan of the deck ... I don't think outdrawing my opponent should be the game plan when playing a Mono-Green deck, I think it should be to disrupt enough to beat them down with some creatures ... Plus it would really end up slowing down the deck ...

However, your comment did make me think that I should probably get rid of a land and add in an extra Sylvan Library just for draw ...
Also, that I "should" consider running Root Maze in the sideboard ...

[The Chosen One]

As a pure lover of green(I'm Irish so I gotta)     I have to say this deck looks fun as hell to play in a vintage environment. I can imagine the look on someones face when you drop a llanowar elf

What kind of decks are you expecting to play? This would make it alot easier for anyone to make reccomendations for improvement...

I am not sure if mono green can really disrupt too much. Yes, green has artifact and enchantment hate, big ass creatures, and mana production, but it lacks any true creature removal which can be a serious drag when you face a turn 1 (or at anytime really) Darksteel Colossus..

[Wolven]

Seeds of Innocence. lol

I kinda built the deck a while ago. Essentially The deck runs off the assumption that Lannys are like Moxen, that can attack, and a big creature threat is something that the fish deck s@ the time had trouble dealing with.

Oh and Treetoip Villiage pwns Landstill.

Chalice is an amazing peice of disruption and My origional version also played 4 Trinisphere. These could be replaced by SPhere of Resistance.

Uba Mask is great against Gifts as we all know.

Dawn Strider is a great card vs. Colossus.

I found myself likeing Troll less and less. Prehaps that would be a good cut for Root Maze. You mentioned to me earlier cutting some elves for ESG....here's my question... what does this deck NEED to play @ a 2cc number? They otherwise don't speed the deck up @ all and actually reduce your permanant count against smokestack.

The deck could use Null Rod Main.

How about Dosan from CHK?

[silvernail]

Being that you have to play dudes to be effective ( for the most part) you need to realise you are waiting a turn to use most of your cards. This means your deck is effectivly slower than most vintage decks, that win using spells instead of creatures. So your goal is to be able to survive long enough to kill them, just like a fish deck.

 How does fish stall ? counter magic and mana denial.Your deck has some aspects of each of those in it, but having null rod/root maze maindeck would really push the bill, also sphere of resistance would be good.

As for the sideboard, youve got chokes,seedtime( its kinda bad but surprisingly good), city of solitude  and carpet of flowers as solid anti blue cards. Scavanger folk or uktabi orangutans can help vs stax, as can life from the loam to some extent. Tormods crypt can be your anti yawg will will pwn me card.elephant grass handles creature decks sometimes, as does umezawas jittie.

Also I would probably change up the naturalize MD for oxidize, unless you see a larger amount of enchantments, mainly because it does cost 1 less.

[SpencerForHire]

I see no reason why you aren't running 4 Seedtime maindeck.  I see nothing wrong with having 3 more timewalks then your opponent.
I would also consider running Tangelwire and Rootmaze main as both will slow them down a bit so you can get the drop on them with a big slugger.

[TheUprisal]

NOT BAD! Im quite impressed.

I think this deck needs 2 mainboard City of Solitude.

Maybe...
-1 Zealot
-1 Uba Mask

+2 City of Solitude

Why?  Zealot seems too mana-intensive, and alongside of the previously mentioned Seedtime, this is a house against the most common color in the format.

Abundance is TECH.  LOVE IT!  It completely turns the symmetry of Uba upside-down

[Wolven]

I'm glad u guys are liking the list. A couple of notes..

Zealot might not seam like much but he really is a house. Also he might seem mana intensive, but when you consider that the deck plays 8 "attacking Moxen" the deck generally has a lot of mana.

I think Land Grant should be in here.

The hardest thing about this deck is trying to pack enough hate to allow for attacking to be relevant, meanwhile trying to make it as un-specific as possible. How about that "G" spell from Torment? the one that makes your next creature spell uncounterable? That means the Drain player has a 1cc spell they can Drain. It draws u a card. And then unless they have another counter, your threat comes down anyway. Seems like it has potential.

Here;s a thought... there is a LOT of hate available to a Mono-G player.

[knickers]

What kind of decks are you expecting to play? This would make it alot easier for anyone to make reccomendations for improvement...

Stax
UbaStax
TPS
WW (yes, white weenie with a lot of changes)
Madness
Gifts
Control Slaver
Oath

The usual I guess?

Being that you have to play dudes to be effective ( for the most part) you need to realise you are waiting a turn to use most of your cards. This means your deck is effectivly slower than most vintage decks, that win using spells instead of creatures. So your goal is to be able to survive long enough to kill them, just like a fish deck.

 How does fish stall ? counter magic and mana denial.Your deck has some aspects of each of those in it, but having null rod/root maze maindeck would really push the bill, also sphere of resistance would be good.

As for the sideboard, youve got chokes,seedtime( its kinda bad but surprisingly good), city of solitude  and carpet of flowers as solid anti blue cards. Scavanger folk or uktabi orangutans can help vs stax, as can life from the loam to some extent. Tormods crypt can be your anti yawg will will pwn me card.elephant grass handles creature decks sometimes, as does umezawas jittie.

Also I would probably change up the naturalize MD for oxidize, unless you see a larger amount of enchantments, mainly because it does cost 1 less.

Ok, I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but thanks for the history lesson. (I do realize there isn't much more than a 1cc Elf drop, and a Chalice for 0 on the first turn, unless I draw a Lotus/Mox). Perhaps ESG's might be really good maindeck, I will test them.
You did give me some really good options as sideboard cards though ...

As for dropping Naturalize for Oxidize. I don't think I want to ... It's bad enough that the deck has a rough time against Oath with the Zealots/Naturalize's maindeck ... (Oath is fairly popular these days) ...

I see no reason why you aren't running 4 Seedtime maindeck.  I see nothing wrong with having 3 more timewalks then your opponent.
I would also consider running Tangelwire and Rootmaze main as both will slow them down a bit so you can get the drop on them with a big slugger.

I don't overly agree with Seedtime being maindeck, or sideboarded. However, Tanglewire and/or Rootmaze main could be a fairly good option ...
Could you possibily explain to me why you believe Seedtime is so good?
Any good player would start to play around them ...


EDIT: (I'm yet to test this, I will have to do it tommorow sometime, I don't know if I made it worst! And maybe fetchlands shouldn't be in there now considering I'm running Root Maze maindeck)

Mono-Green

Maindeck (60)
(18)
3x Sylvan Library
3x Uba Mask
3x Root Maze
2x Abundance
3x Naturalize
4x Chalice of the Void

(21)
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Llanowar Elf
4x Ravenous Baloth
3x Iwamori of the Open Fist
3x Veridian Zealot
3x Eternal Witness

(21)
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
4x Wasteland
1x Strip mine
2x Treetop Village
8x Forest
4x Windswept Heath

[silvernail]

i would not run more than 3 seedtime between the SB and MD because the idea with seedtime is that it forces the player to play around it or walk into an instant speed time walk. Its mostly a mind game that can pay off if you can force your opponent to cast something by using or casting a threat of your own first.I wouldnt use any SB myself but  maybe 1-2 MD if you think blue will be overly abundant ( in the NE every one loves mana drains)

that said i personally would play the SB like this:

3 choke ( carpets are decent too but i prefer only using carpets in combo deck SBs)
3 maze of ith
3 sphere of resistance
3 Ground Seal
2 Umezawas Jitte ( id fit 2 jittie MD somewhere as well)

Also MD xantid swarms might be useful too.

[silvernail]

On a tangent, you can add illusionary mask/dreadnaughts to the deck and cast all your dudes at 2 to confuse opponents and win randomly like that

[goobafish]

Another thing to consider could be the addition of survival and null rod. With the removal of Uba mask you can gain the advantage of creature choice.
Add in
Squee
Utabi Ourangatang
Anger
A nice fattie creature as a finisher

Null rod also stops the opponent from getting a speed advantage.

[knickers]

On a tangent, you can add illusionary mask/dreadnaughts to the deck and cast all your dudes at 2 to confuse opponents and win randomly like that

Stop bringing the deck to ridiculous levels!

Another thing to consider could be the addition of survival and null rod. With the removal of Uba mask you can gain the advantage of creature choice.
Add in
Squee
Utabi Ourangatang
Anger
A nice fattie creature as a finisher

Null rod also stops the opponent from getting a speed advantage.

Uba Mask + Sylvan Library ...
Plus the fact Uba Mask is usually really bad for your opponent, if I ever get it to resolve!

[Duncan]

i would run uktabi orangutan that guy rocks! killing all sorts of artifacts in a 2/2 body

[UR]

1x Silvos, Rogue Elemental [Just to see my opponents face when I attempt to play him ]

Happened to me about a month ago at the Dutch Open. He did it on turn two I believe with an Orcish Lumberjack and a Lotus Petal or ESG or something. I thought that was really cool. He lost because I was playing Dragon and finished the combo on my turn two, but it was really cool.

[Sgt. Pepper]

Question: why not splash a color? With fetchland and dualland it's very easy to just splash a little so you gain access to a lot more options.

White for example would give you Swords to Plowshares, giving you an answers to a Colossus, Welder or Dragon. Blue would add more power, red could add Gorilla Shaman while black would add hand disruption and perhaps some tutors.

Of all the colors I would probably add White for StP, Ray of Revelation and perhaps Watchwolf and Loxodon Hierarch.

Also, while I understand the interaction between Sylvan Library, Abundance and Uba Mask, why bother? Why not pack more disruption and beats so you can kill early and don't need any extra cards to win.

Last thing I should point out is that you could do with some more 3cc threats instead of 4 drops. Right now a first turn Elf is nearly as good a play as it could be. The only thing you can make a T1 Elf usefull if you follow it up with a 2 drop and either a Wasteland, Treetop Village or a 1 drop. That sounds reasonable, except you don;t have that many 2cc threats and you need a target for the Wasteland play to work.

From the top of my head, I would probably change your list like this:

-2 Treetop Village or -2 Forest
-3 Sylvan Library
-3 Uba Mask
-2 Abundance
-1 Witness
-2 Ravenous Baloth
-1 Iwamori

+2 Savannah
+4 Troll Assetic
+4 Sword to Plowshares
+4 Tangle Wire

[SpencerForHire]

It would be smartest to splash red for burn and more hate if you were going to splash but that actually waters the deck down.

[vroman]

Uba Mask is great against Gifts as we all know.

of all the blue decks, uba probably hurts gifts the least, due to all the "put into hand" spells.
do 4 cost artifacts belong in a deck wo workshop? you have zero ability to play uba turn 1 wo lotus. uba is not completely broken on its own, unless you have an easy way to pump it out, or a way to really abuse it, uba cant be worth it.

[Wolven]

Uba Mask is great against Gifts as we all know.

of all the blue decks, uba probably hurts gifts the least, due to all the "put into hand" spells.
do 4 cost artifacts belong in a deck wo workshop? you have zero ability to play uba turn 1 wo lotus. uba is not completely broken on its own, unless you have an easy way to pump it out, or a way to really abuse it, uba cant be worth it.

lol Sylvan Library makes it pretty busted.

[silvernail]

fact being uba is kinda slow and root mazes , spheres of resistance or md null rods might be more disruptive.

[Fubar]

3 Sylvan Ls is way too much.  After you repeatedly draw two in your opening hand, you'll keep swearing.

[knickers]

This deck keeps getting progressively worst!

I really do like the splash of white ...
I'll be considering it for future versions ...

Mono-Green

Maindeck (60)

(18)
4x Sylvan Library
4x Uba Mask
3x Root Maze
3x Naturalize
4x Chalice of the Void

(20)
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Llanowar Elf
4x Ravenous Baloth
3x Iwamori of the Open Fist
3x Veridian Zealot
2x Eternal Witness

(22)
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
4x Wasteland
1x Strip mine
3x Ancient Tomb
8x Forest
4x Windswept Heath

Sideboard (15)
4x Oxidize
3x Null Rod
3x Ground Seal
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Naturalize
1x Viridian Zealot


EDIT:

3 Sylvan Ls is way too much.  After you repeatedly draw two in your opening hand, you'll keep swearing.

Hate to tell you but they are the only thing keeping this deck remotely fun to play ...

[Kieranwolf]

Splashing White? Why not splash Black??

But seriously, here are some card suggestions:

Life from the Loam (for a crucible of worlds that's resistant to countering) and...

Wild Mongrel, the absolute best green beatstick, EVAR!

This would allow you to use Basking Rootwalla, too. Hey, I may just be rehashing ideas from my other thread, but is your deck really faster without Mongrel and Walla?

4cc seems like too much for almost anything in here. Mana Drain loves it. It's just about the highest cc you ever find in Vintage. I think it's way too much mana for a threat, even one with a four-turn clock. Mongrel's clock is just as fast with Loam, though you still have to give up your draw and tap two mana each turn.

Mongrel would make Uba Mask very, very bad, though. I would test LftL, Mongrel, and Walla, taking out Mask, Iwamori, and Baloth (who is somewhat situational anyway). Tombs might be sub-optimal here, too. You are mono green, so what about Tranquil Thicket instead? It goes quite well with Lftl, drawing you a card every turn and making up for dredge without being prone to most countermagic.

Heck, I might run a list like that, just because it sounds like a total blast to play!

All of this would take down your mana curve to a much more acceptable level, and I think you will like having Mongrel swing for (at least) four every turn while you draw more threats and drop Wallas.

Oh, the synergy!

[Wolven]

I think the W splash is better then a B splash. W allows u to cut Baloth for Lododon Heirarch and lets u play 2-3 copies of StP.

B would allow u to play tutors and disruption, but you need to remember that this deck tries to ramp it's mana with Elves then drop it's threats. If you play duress/therapy it slows your developement down.

Here's an idea Dj, since u arn't MDing Null Rod, how about Sword of Fire/Ice? u have tonnes of Mana elves, and turning them into a 3/3 that shocks and draws cards is pretty good.

[Harlequin]

It seems like your casting cost pie is a bit heavy for having only tappable creature accelleration.

First to cut would be the Trolls.  Your not going to need the "untargetable" ability... because you run pleanty of meatier creatures that will be targeted first.
Next, Ravenous Baloth.. By running beats you should be winning the life race the extra 4 life will rarely save you.  but 1 or 2 are good ... hes still a 4/4 beater for 4 mana - not bad.

I'd suggest looking at a few "bang for buck" early drops.

River boa is always a popular pic
I would rock out the Eternal witness with this deck... because lets face it, your gunna have alot of stuff getting countered.
Of course Mongrel is well worth his Casting cost

Also consider cheaper creatures that get MORE power/toughness than casting cost. to fit your turn 2 - 3 drop.
Rushwood Legate: 2/1 beater for free ... hes nice, good clock against combo (i would say 2 MD - 2 SB)
Skyshroud Elite: 2/3 beater generally for G.
Rouge Elephants: 3/3 beater for G + Sac a forest.  Not bad after a few elves hit the board.

I would try and main deck some Xantid swarms too

Lastly if your going with 4 sylvans + uba (awsome synergy) I would say rock out all the fetches you can.  i would try and work in at least 2 extra wooded foothills to give you more selection before you can resolve and uba.  Remeber control might let sylvan ride, but it sure as hell won't let Uba hit the board if it can be stopped, so a mighty supply of shuffle effects will give you supperior selection.

[Wolven]

Just a thought, but is Blurred Mongoose a relevant enough threat? It can't be countered, but can he apply enough pressure to warrent it's inclusion?

[silvernail]

the problem with mongoose is that he is easily blocked and thusly killed.

Spells cant handle him however, so if a player doesnt see creatures in his field, then BM might be decent.

[elias]

Why not try putting in a wild mongrel?

Putting in elephant guide might be fun.

Try mirri's guile. It's a one cost replacement to silvan lib (but of course the library is more powerful)

[dre4m]

This deck takes me way back, I'm glad somebody had the nads to post it.

I recommend adding Wild Mongrel, River Boa, and Blurred Mongoose for creature threats.
Other cards to consider would be Root Maze and Call of the Herd.  Root maze is great because it hurts your opponent far more than you in most cases, but perhaps Null Rod would be better because you don't run many artifacts to shut off.

Are you having a hard time casting chalice for any amount besides zero before it becomes a dead card?  Even with your 1cc mana accellerators, it seems like you'd rather be playing threats than laying down chalices for higher amounts.  I would also up the E.Witness number to four, because your creatures are going to get killed and countered, and often retreiving a river boa will lend you the win.  Maindeck naturalize is a good idea, as it keeps you from scooping to a Moat, but I hope drop of honey doesn't see much play in your meta.  If you decide to play mongrel, play basking rootwalla as well.