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Charlie
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« on: November 24, 2005, 04:10:58 pm » |
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Elven Rites
G
Sorcery
Put a green creature card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your hand into play.
Dark Ritual has been widely deemed broken in combo decks. How about a Dark Ritual redo, in green's flavor, that is not abusable (or hopefully) and quite playable?
Current Wording:
Chrysanthemum Festival
G
Sorcery
Put a green creature card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your hand into play.
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« Last Edit: November 25, 2005, 05:42:17 am by Charlie »
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Guardian
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2005, 04:40:05 pm » |
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I don't think this is a good idea. This basically lets you play turn 3 creatures on turn one. This is no big deal in T1, but I'm sure this is not a good idea in other formats. Acceleration is always risky.
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A winner is you.
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Machinus
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2005, 04:49:23 pm » |
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I think mana creatures are just better than this card anyway. With a bird or elf you can just play the card on turn 2, and still have a beater or mana acceleration.
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T1: Arsenal
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Godder
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2005, 05:07:52 pm » |
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I don't think this is a good idea. This basically lets you play turn 3 creatures on turn one. This is no big deal in T1, but I'm sure this is not a good idea in other formats. Acceleration is always risky. It does? It says "put a creature" - no plural there, so no possibility of putting more than one into play. |
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That's what I like about you, Laura - you're always willing to put my neck on the line. |
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Ephraim
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2005, 08:29:40 pm » |
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Godder, I think he's saying that you can put [one of your] turn 3 creatures into play, but that it makes all of them better by association. I'm going to mull over this card before I pass judgement and offer commentary on the ability itself.
On a side note, the name [card]Elven Rite[/card] is taken. May I suggest "Chrysanthemum Festival" if I may be so bold as to swipe an awesome name from Legend of the Five Rings?
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2005, 11:16:19 pm » |
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I like this, but it is very strong.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
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Godder
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2005, 11:38:47 pm » |
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Oops, my mistake. I don't think this card is broken by any means, just very good. Dark Ritual was a bit on the strong side, but creatures aren't generally especially difficult to deal with, even 3 drops, especially at the cost of another card. Also, if someone makes a Chrysanthemum Festival, I call dibs on Iris Festival  . |
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That's what I like about you, Laura - you're always willing to put my neck on the line. |
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ReAnimator
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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2005, 01:34:15 am » |
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Could someone with better rules knowledge tell me how the interaction (or non interaction ) with Eternal witness works?
If this works with Ewitness then it is wayyy to good for exteded:
Land -> (~this) Ewitness -> (~this) mox / troll / hypnotic / dark confidant / mongrel with walla
That is like affinity fast and with better creatures.
if this doesn't work like that then i still think it is too good for other formats, First turn hyppie would be sooo dumb in standard. If it were not for hyppie this thing would be a lot more fair
If this brought out casting cost 2 guys it would be fair but unplayable as it would be no better than ESG.
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Goobafish: I'll cast lim dul's vault
Opponent: Ok
Goobafish: Sorry its foreign do you know what it does?
Opponent: Yes
Goobafish: Well I don't
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dandan
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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2005, 01:52:09 am » |
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This is clearly very good with Eternal Witness but so are lots of other things. Note that even with Witness you still only get a 2/1 out on turn 1, a play we all know is good but hardly broken. In that hand of Land, Land, X, Witness, Mongrel, Walla, Troll is this being card X stronger than a Llanowar Elf being our power card X?
Turn 1 Cast this +Witness
Turn 2 Swing with Witness Cast this and Troll
Turn 3 Swing with Troll and Witness, cast Mongrel (walla)
Damage so far 7, potential for 8+ next turn
Turn 1 Elf
Turn 2 Swing with Elf or cast something you drew for 1, cast Mongel(walla)
Turn 3 Swing with Elf, Walla and Mongrel, cast Troll (still have Witness to pick up the pieces)
Damage so far 5, potential for 7+ next turn but you still have Witness in hand
Obviously Elf is better in mid-late game.
As far as Hyppie goes, unless they reprint him in Green, we should be OK.
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Charlie
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2005, 05:45:55 am » |
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Ephraim, thanks for names suggestion.
As far as the interaction with Eternal Witness, its black companion Priest of Gix was more brutal, and a turn 1 Troll Ascetic is not Hyppie or Negator, so I hope it is fine.
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ReAnimator
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2005, 09:12:33 am » |
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Yeah reading is tech! I posted my idiotic comments at 2 am and i didn't RTFC properly. with the whole green creature clause this thing is probably fine and probably weaker than a bird or elf or ESG /Dumbass = ReAnimator |
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Goobafish: I'll cast lim dul's vault
Opponent: Ok
Goobafish: Sorry its foreign do you know what it does?
Opponent: Yes
Goobafish: Well I don't
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Matt
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2005, 02:23:37 pm » |
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So it's a green Dark Ritual?
Anyway, green doesn't get one-use mana. Green grows its mana, and that's an investment (in both cards and mana, and also in the biomass that makes up its elf/forest/plantlife) it intends to milk for as long as possible.
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carlossb
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2005, 03:24:27 pm » |
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Anyway, green doesn't get one-use mana. Green grows its mana, and that's an investment (in both cards and mana, and also in the biomass that makes up its elf/forest/plantlife) it intends to milk for as long as possible.
What about restricting it to 2 converted mana and make it return to your hand at the end of your turn? (or put in it a Dredge mechanism?) |
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Slack
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誰が居ますか。
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2005, 04:48:17 pm » |
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What about restricting it to 2 converted mana and make it return to your hand at the end of your turn?
If you do the return to hand at EoT thing, it should probably be be an instant so that it doesn't become completely unplayable. Then again... aren't temporary instant speed creatures white's territory? e.g. Angelic Favor and Walay? |
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"The past is a ghost that haunts you from the moment it exists until the moment you don't"
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SpencerForHire
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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2005, 09:30:20 pm » |
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Current Wording: Chrysanthemum Festival  Sorcery Put a green creature card with converted mana cost equal to or less than the number of lands you control. Slightly safer? |
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Team Technology - Strictly better than our previous name.
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Marco
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2005, 04:48:01 pm » |
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I like "Put a green creature card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your hand into play". It reminds me of Unearth. |
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dandan
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« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2005, 03:12:04 am » |
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This isn't a Green Dark Ritual. It gives you no mana at all. It allows you to put a Green creature into play sooner than you would otherwise be able to. Green has done that a number of times before (and indeed does it again in Ravnica). I like the comparison with Unearth.
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Anusien
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« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2005, 10:08:40 pm » |
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Current Wording: Chrysanthemum Festival Sorcery Put a green creature card with converted mana cost equal to or less than the number of lands you control from your hand into play[/B]. Slightly safer? Gimbles forgot the important part. That version isn't bad, and it essentially doubles your mana. As for the original version, I'm going to say no. A turn 1 Hippie is very scary, because it turns around and starts swinging on turn 2. Nevermind the potential for hasty creatures; imagine Extended or Legacy Goblins/g with a turn 2 Warchief, turn 2 Lackey + Piledriver - that's a turn 3 win easily. If nothing else, an analogy to a fairly broken card is bad. |
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. |
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Fall-Titan
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« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2005, 02:42:23 am » |
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RTFC!!!
It has been stated already that this cannot put down a hippy or a warchief! It clearly says in all versions posted thus far to put a GREEN creature into play. Hippy and Warchief are not green!
Sorry but that issue has already been brought up and i dont want it brought up for a 3rd time.
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dandan
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« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2005, 02:42:56 am » |
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I repeat my earlier comment. Unless Wizards print a Green Hyppie or Green Warchief I don't see a problem with this card. What GREEN creature with CC of 3 or less breaks this card?
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2005, 02:57:00 am » |
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I repeat my earlier comment. Unless Wizards print a Green Hyppie or Green Warchief I don't see a problem with this card. What GREEN creature with CC of 3 or less breaks this card?
Well, obviously Noble Panther. Seriously, though, this is fine. |
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
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Fall-Titan
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« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2005, 03:01:46 am » |
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Sorry DanDan... lol beat you to it
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CRC: Breaking Magic, 1 Format at a Time
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dandan
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« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2005, 07:39:55 am » |
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Sorry Fall-Titan. Without Jacob's time machine you were still 5 days later than me.
I think we seem to have exhausted all objections to this card unless someone can trump Noble Panther (I suspect the casual players will be putting out Veduran Enchantresses)
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Anusien
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« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2005, 09:01:52 am » |
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... Join me with it now: "Oh".
Green creatures less than 3. You still get the huge tempo boost of dumping Watchwolf on turn 1. This is probably fine then, but it bears watching.
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. |
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Ephraim
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« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2005, 09:31:29 am » |
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There are some potentially strong plays with this card. Azusa, Lost but Seeking; Eternal Witness; Troll Ascetic; Anurid Brushhopper. Those are the best I could find and it isn't saying a whole lot. It could also be potent in a deck built to abuse Seton, Krosan Protector; Shizuko, Caller of Autumn, or Budoka Pupil. In any case, I didn't find anything that would break this card. Since Llanowar Elves or Birds of Paradise can give green any of those creatures on turn two and then stick around to accelerate for the rest of the game, I see absolutely nothing wrong with this card.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Anusien
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« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2005, 09:35:15 am » |
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Turn 1 Troll Ascetic might possibly be too powerful, since it'll hit for at least 6 before the opponent can remove it. Turn 1 Azusa is also nasty, but I don't think either play is truly scary, especially since the Land, Elves; Land, Troll play gives Edict protection anyway.
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. |
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Ephraim
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« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2005, 09:49:11 am » |
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Turn 1 Troll Ascetic might possibly be too powerful, since it'll hit for at least 6 before the opponent can remove it. Turn 1 Azusa is also nasty, but I don't think either play is truly scary, especially since the Land, Elves; Land, Troll play gives Edict protection anyway.
Actually, it's possible to get rid of any creature played with a turn 1 Chrysanthemum Festival with Innocent Blood. The Troll wouldn't get to swing for anything in that case. |
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Matt
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« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2005, 12:05:56 pm » |
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This may be fine in power level, but it's still a Ritual in all the ways green cares about. Which is definitely not in green's set of mechanics.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2005, 06:21:11 pm » |
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This may be fine in power level, but it's still a Ritual in all the ways green cares about. Which is definitely not in green's set of mechanics.
[card]Elvish piper[/card]? |
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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Matt
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« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2005, 06:40:27 pm » |
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Elvish Piper is repeatable. This is not. One-shot mana acceleration is not green.
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