Dark Ritual, in a green way

[Nibble]

One-shot mana acceleration isn't, but getting creatures into play is. Yes, it's a fine line, but the Piper example is a good one. You want one-shot? Lure of Prey. Natural Order. Thicket Elemental. Root Elemental. Myojin of Life's Web.

I think this is directly comparable to Tooth and Nail, in a sense. Tooth is meant to be an expensive spell that gets big creatures into play. This will be a cheap spell that gets small/medium creatures into play.

[dandan]

Elvish Piper is repeatable. This is not. One-shot mana acceleration is not green.

Since Wizards gave a repeatable way of putting creatures into play to all colours with Aether Vial, Green is possibly of the opinion that it is owed more than a little leeway in putting Green creatures into play.

In any case, this is not mana acceleration, it makes no mana. I'm not sure what colour should get putting a smallish Green creature into play if not Green. Red can have a version for Instants and Sorceries if you so desire.

[Matt]

In any case, this is not mana acceleration, it makes no mana.

That's silly. Next you'll tell me that Time Stop is not a counterspell, or that Control Magic isn't removal!

[Anusien]

In any case, this is not mana acceleration, it makes no mana.

That's silly. Next you'll tell me that Time Stop is not a counterspell, or that Control Magic isn't removal!

Time Stop can deal with Boseiju'ed Tooth and Nail.  Counterspells cannot.

[Matt]

These children are picking nits.

[Ephraim]

One-shot mana acceleration isn't, but getting creatures into play is. Yes, it's a fine line, but the Piper example is a good one. You want one-shot? Lure of Prey. Natural Order. Thicket Elemental. Root Elemental. Myojin of Life's Web.

I think this is directly comparable to Tooth and Nail, in a sense. Tooth is meant to be an expensive spell that gets big creatures into play. This will be a cheap spell that gets small/medium creatures into play.

Nibble raises a good point. Green doesn't always put into play big creatures. He also forgot to mention [card]Oath of Druids[/card], which puts into play whatever it first runs into and [card]Chord of Calling[/card], which for a small mana payment will put into play only a small (or at least inexpensive) creature.

That said, green's ability to put things into play seems to follow one of two models. Either you get a discount on multiple creatures (Myojin) or you get to search your library (Natural Order) — or both (Tooth and Nail.) This card may still be feasible, although exploring one of those two themes may be more appropriate.

One avenue that might merit consideration would be one that instead of restricting this to green creatures only, raise the cost and let it put into play any creature within a certain mana cost. That makes it feel more like a mana fixer and hearkens back to the dawn of Magic. (Did you know that during early Magic trials, all creatures were green?) For example:

Fecund Ritual

Instant

Put a creature card with converted mana cost three or less from your hand into play.

***

Being an instant makes this playable in a variety of settings, since casual players will pick it up just so they can surprise drop their creatures at end of turn.  Instant-speed creatures are a green trick anyhow.

[Fall-Titan]

Ephraim, while ur suggestion does make sense, i fell we would be turning this card into a very playable card into an almost unplayable card altogether. 4 mana for a possible 3 cost dude... if we were playing averages a 2 cost dude, just to allow him instant speed is not all that good. And with the mana fixing as good as it has ever been in standard right now, (extended and type 1 etc always have good mana fixing) the ability to put any creature into play seems rather mundane and almost just an excuse to raise the Converted mana cost by 1 or 2. If people are that worried about turn 1 troll ascetic then why not change the card to make it playable but in a different way. One idea would be to give this a more green flavor umm say something like...

Fecund Ritual
1G
Sorcery
Put a green creature card with converted mana cost equal to or less than the number of creatures in play from your hand into play.

That seem really green, although only a suggestion. Minus 3 ornithopters  and a mox on turn 1 I doubt troll ascetic will be appearing. Also this card becomes much better in the late game. If this is too powerful then restrict it to creatures you control and if that is too weak lower the mana cost or make it an instant. Again just an idea but i do not liek the idea of making this a 4 cost card unless it puts 2 or more creatures with cc less than or equal to three into play.

[Nazdakka]

I think this is close to being OK as intially posted. Sure, it's very strong, but if someone had posted Watchwolf, Eternal Witness, or Gifts Ungiven on this forum would they have got through? A turn 1 Troll is a scary prospect, but green doesn't have that many 3-drops which would casue havoc if played on turn one. Let this through to development, if it turns out scary we can make it 2cc and drop 4 mana creatures, or something like that.

[Matt]

1G and dropping CMC <= 4 would be okay with me if it's a sorcery. Giving a creature instant-speed playability AND making it cheaper is a little much.

[dandan]

In any case, this is not mana acceleration, it makes no mana.

That's silly. Next you'll tell me that Time Stop is not a counterspell, or that Control Magic isn't removal!

I thought you would understand what I wanted to say. This makes no mana, this is not fast mana. It has an effect that is in most ways similar to making fast mana but rather than the 'Red' way of expending resources now to get short term gain, as Red cares little for longer term considerations, this is the Green way, thinking about creatures more than cards (thought - a rather Blue thing). I'd compare it to Lightning Bolt and Giant Growth. Both can be used as 'creature kill' or 'direct damage' although GG is neither and Bolt in technically not creature kill. Well in this case, once again we have a Green effect that is similar in many ways to a Ritual but which requires a creature in order to work.

Making this cost 2 mana really means that just about every 1cc creature that can generate mana is superior. I don't see it being too good at 1 mana (playable yes!) as it is only advantageous in your opening hand and is certainly weak after that. At 1cc I'd want to try this, at 2cc, I'd only see the light of day in seriously casual decks (It would strugle to make the cut in my Type II monogren highlander deck for example).

[Ephraim]

One-shot mana acceleration is not green.

Mmmh...
Elvish spirit guide?
Metamorphosis..?

With due respect, those cards are really too old to serve as a benchmark for placement of mechanics within the colour pie.

[Mat]

One-shot mana acceleration is not green.

Elvish spirit guide?
Metamorphosis?

[asmoranomardicodais]

wait... why is ephraim's reply to Mat above Mat's post? PARADOX!

[Ephraim]

Notice the timestamp on my quote. He had previously posted but had made an error in his own quote tag, so I think he deleted his initial post and created a new one.

[eskimo81]

With Burning-Tree Shaman available now, this might be a little too strong.

How about this instead:

G
Sorcery
When you play ~ reveal a green creature card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your hand.
If ~ is countered discard the revealed card.
An opponent may discard two cards that share at least one colour to counter ~.
Put the revealed creature into play.

So now, it's closer to dark ritual, in that you do lose something else as well if it gets countered, and it allows your opponent to force of will it, if you try to do something too broken.

[dandan]

With Burning Tree Shamen around, I think this needs to be changed to putting a monogreen creature into play. Apart from that I think it is fine.