Magneton Punisher

[Ephraim]

Magneton Punisher

Artifact Creature
1/1

At the beginning of your upkeep, put a charge counter on Magneton Punisher.
Remove a charge counter from Magneton Punisher: Magneton Punsiher gains your choice of flying, first strike, or trample until end of turn; or Magneton Punisher gets +1/+1 until end of turn.

***

Urza's Avenger and Lunar Avenger are two of my favourite cards, so I wanted to create another card along the same lines. The ability set is a little bit different than either of the Avengers, since instead of a creature that gets smaller and gains abilities, I wanted to create a creature that starts small and which may become threatening over time or which can be a slightly overcosted creature all the time (a 1/1 with first strike or flying or a 2/2) The name is kind of meaningless. Magneton is a real word, but I chose it just because it sounds like something that would be associated with charge counters.

***

Current Wording:

Magneton Punisher

Artifact Creature
1/1

Whenever an opponent draws a card, put a charge counter on Magneton Punisher.
Remove a charge counter from Magneton Punisher: Magneton Punsiher gains your choice of first strike, trample, or vigilance until end of turn; or Magneton Punisher gets +1/+1 until end of turn.

[Matt]

Could this be a Slith instead of a natural-grower?

[Jacob Orlove]

This would be neat if it got a counter every time an opponent drew a card.

[Anusien]

Then it actually punishes?

Yeah, the card seems really neat, but at best it's a 20 turn clock (flying) or a 2/2 for 3, which is sub-par.  If it gained counters on the draw, at least it's a bad hoser instead of a bad, neat card.

[Ephraim]

It now gains counters whenever an opponent draws a card. As a bonus, that makes it better in multiplayer matchups.

[Jacob Orlove]

As a bonus, that makes it better in multiplayer matchups.

Yeah, that was the main point of my proposal, although you know people will run this in underworld dreams/teferi's puzzle box decks, which is awesome.

[Ephraim]

24 Hour Clock

[Anusien]

Is there any reason this gains charge counters, and not +1/+1 counters that can remove to give it abilities?

[Nazdakka]

Is there any reason this gains charge counters, and not +1/+1 counters that can remove to give it abilities?

I was thinking the same thing. Creatures shouldn't get charge counters because if the creature then gets +1/+1 counters from somewhere else, things get very confusing. Would this be ok power-wise if it used +1/+1 counters instead?

[dandan]

It depends on whether or not you see a 6/6 for 3 mana being a problem. A 1/1 that can pump itself to 6/6 is another matter (and still not exactly weak). This card is clearly OK in duels but in multiplayer it is already very very strong for 3 mana (it is already an autoinclude in multiplayer with 4+ players)

[Joblin Velder]

In a 3 person game, this is a 3/3 for 3. It gets even more insane with more people. Since this seems to be designed for multiplayer, I'd like to see the cost increased so it isnt a 4 of in every deck.

[Ephraim]

In a 3 person game, this is a 3/3 for 3. It gets even more insane with more people. Since this seems to be designed for multiplayer, I'd like to see the cost increased so it isnt a 4 of in every deck.

Joblin Velder, It is important to note that it is only a 3/3 for one turn in the rotation. That will typically be the turn during which the creature is attacking, but any instant source of damage then kills the Punisher during the next turn's upkeep. This is comparable to Suntouched Myr, which is a 3/3 for 3 under certain circumstances, just as this is. Granted, the artifacts in Mirrodin were more powerful than the norm. Nonetheless, that's nothing that can't be solved by simply making this uncommon (where common-level artifacts from Mirrodin purportedly belonged.) I would also like to point out that the argument against using charge counters here isn't very strong. Consider the Baku creatures from Betrayers of Kamigawa. They acquired ki counters.  An even better example would be Budoka Pupil, which acquired Ki counters and then also used them to pump itself (or something else) up.

Nazdakka and Anusien, I would have to increase the cost a lot if this got +1/+1 counters whenever an opponent drew a card. Particularly since two of the abilities this creature can get are evasive, it would be abusive to grow this to a large size and then attack, giving it flying or trample every turn. I didn't want the creature to grow and then to gradually shrink.  I wanted the creature to be perpetually small with the constant tension present of making it larger or giving it more abilities.

One thing that just occured to me that I'd like to discuss is whether it's appropriate or even interesting that this can get either flying or trample, since they're both evasive in nature. If I were to cut back to just one of those abilities, with what would I replace the third ability? Would it be necessary to replace it at all?

[Joblin Velder]

Oh crap, I read it as getting +1/+1 for each charge counter on it. After careful reading, its fine.

[Jacob Orlove]

Flying, First Strike, or Vigilance would be a nice mix.

[dandan]

I prefer Trample to Flying as it is more logical for a huge lump of metal to roll over you than glide over you. First Strike and Vigilence fit well though

[Ephraim]

I like vigilance instead of flying. I'd like feedback from the people whose arguments I rebutted, though, before I decide that this is done.

[Nazdakka]

Nazdakka and Anusien, I would have to increase the cost a lot if this got +1/+1 counters whenever an opponent drew a card. Particularly since two of the abilities this creature can get are evasive, it would be abusive to grow this to a large size and then attack, giving it flying or trample every turn. I didn't want the creature to grow and then to gradually shrink.  I wanted the creature to be perpetually small with the constant tension present of making it larger or giving it more abilities.

I realise it would ruin the idea of this guy being cheap to cast, but I just don't like the idea of artifact creatures getting charge counters. If you look at Mirrodin block you'll see that creatures always get +1/+1s, while noncreatures always get charge counters. I guess if it's the only way to make him reasonably costed, then I can live with it.

I have one fairly radical idea for keeping the charge counter - +1/+1 counter divide intact - turn this into a kind of enhancement centre which brings along its own token, a la Sarcomancy:

Magneton Punisher
3
Artifact
When Magnetron Punisher comes into play, put a 1/1 Myr artifact creature token into play.
Whenever an opponent draws a card, put a charge counter on Magneton Punisher.
Remove a charge counter from Magneton Punisher: Target Myr gains your choice of +1/+1, first strike, trample, or vigilance until end of turn.

This is quite cute even when it's just pumping the token it brings along, but turning it into a Myr lord as well adds a whole extra range of ideas, plus if you have 2 of them in play, you use them to pump each other's Myr.

PS: If you don't want the tribal thing happening, then change 'Myr' in the above into an arbitary artifact creature type of your choice.

[Upinthe]

I think its foolish to give Goblin Welder and Dismantle a new target just because it's slightly complicated otherwise.

[Nazdakka]

I like vigilance instead of flying. I'd like feedback from the people whose arguments I rebutted, though, before I decide that this is done.

This one's a bit old, but I think this is a great card and that it would be a pity to let it disappear into the wastes of page 2. I really like the enhancement centre idea which I put forward, but if noone likes it the original is cool by me. Anyone else?

[Ephraim]

I've already requested that the current wording be adopted into the master list. I'm afraid I wasn't crazy about your enhancement centre idea, but I appreciate your interest in this card. It's always nice to know that people like my work. ^_^

[Ephraim]

Closed and added.