RunawayTrain (Oath Discussion)

[VarienTanafres]

Just a discussion about my particular Oath deck and it's results from playing with it at the last beanie exchange tournament.Wasn't sure if this belonged here or in the Deck Improvement Thread.
I have been playing with Oath for a little while now, just haven’t entered into tournaments due to lack of confidence. (Lack of confidence due to the pronounced players around here and some trash talking by Nate Pease)

Runaway Train

Land: 18
4x Forbidden Orchard
2x Underground Sea
2x Tropical Island
2x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
1x  Island
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Sapphire  
Mox Emerald
Mox Ruby
Black Lotus
 
Creatures: 3
2x Darksteel Colossus
1x Eternal Witness

Control: 13
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
3x Dispersal Shield
Balance
1x Rushing River
1x Pernicious Deed

Instants: 14
3x Brainstorm
3x Thirst for Knowledge
3x Accumulated Knowledge
2x Intuition
Vampiric Tutor
Ancestral Recall
Gush

Enchantments: 10
3x Oath of Druids
2x Ground Seal
3x Berserk
2x Dragons Breath

Sorceries: 5
Tinker
Demonic Tutor
1x Life from the Foam
Yawgmoth’s Will
Time Walk

S/B:
1x Gaea’s Blessing
1x Rushing River
2x Tormod’s Crypt
2x Smother
2x Energy Flux
2x Arcane Laboratory
1x krosan Reclamation
1x Platinum Angel
3x Oxidixe

I ended up going 3 -3 at the last Beanie Exchange tournament. Losing to Kyle Leith with 3 land gamble belcher, Jaris Wicklund with 5cStax I believe it was, and Travis Laplante with a pile of cards that owned me.

Card discussion:
Darksteel Colossus- He’s big, bad, and generally not to easy to deal with. Welder is his only real enemy. But as any other creature is with Oath, you need to protect them. I made sure that I had this guy in play and moving. Two turns with D.S.C. in play is just TOO long nowadays before he’s dealt with.

Eternal Witness- She’s handy, generally. Oath + Witness + Will = GG, generally.

Dispersal Shield- WTF am I thinking? And I definitely had the question asked a few times as well. As I see it, it’s either this or Mana Leak. You can’t get UU open easily with Oath I have found b/c of lots of turn 1, 2, and 3 drops. U1 is a lot easier then UU. With Oath in play, not many GOOD spells worth countering are over 2. Then with D.S.C. in play (or Akroma/Spirit/Razia) their high mana costs make this card a U1 counterspell. I used this over Drain b/c I don’t feel I have much to Drain into and didn’t feel like taking mana burn. This card worked well for me. Besides, it makes me different, ha!

Pernicious Deed- It blows things up and adds a great control factor to the game, takes care of all the cantrips and Welders. This is a great late game bomb against Control and Combo decks if they get that long.

Ground Seal- Main decked? I have to protect my big guy and it does a lot against a few decks. Draw off it anyways, so I saw no disadvantage to using it M/D.

Berserk- I was once told that this is a wasted slot. As I stated before, two turns with Colossus in play is just TOO long nowadays. Berserk ends game if they have no counter 8 out 10 times and lets your reshuffle D.S.C. into library, ready to go next turn to finish off if there’s a need for it.

Dragons Breath- This quickens the process of D.S.C. getting moving and putting my opponent on a very limited clock. It’s generally Oathed into the graveyard and it’s free anyways, I don’t see how two extra cards over 60 are useless if they end up in the graveyard anyways..


S/B-
Honestly, it’s just what I threw together before the tournament. I did not have the proper S/B.
Smother- Specifically for Welders.

Tournament playtesting: Since this is my first time doing something close to a report, I won’t add the before hand action.

Against Mindslaver: This deck is quick enough to beat it out before lock is maintained. A bad draw will leave the deck helpless as it happens to all decks. Handles the Welder easily enough, generally coming in play and dealing the damage before he is welder’d out. The counters come in handy when forcing things into play or keeping them in play. (Balance won me one game actually, so though it’s the only white card in the deck, it’s nice)

3-Land Belcher: Oath is fast enough to beat it out, but that’s if you counter needed spells or they aren’t able to combo out fast enough. It’s a toss up between the two. (Need more playtesting against 2 or 3-land belcher decks)

5cStax: Stax is just better. Protect yourself from letting them obtain a game lock and you should be fine. Counters end up getting sac’d to Stax so it’s harder to keep Oath going for long periods of time. I personally had to hope for turn 2-4 kills in order in win, but Tangle Wire shuts me down. Life from the Loam is a major help when in a jam though.

Aggro-Workshop: Oath puts on the bigger beats within the same amount of time that Workshop generally does. Just as long as you handle the Welder finely enough, Oath means GG.

Other Oaths: It comes down to whoever gets Orchard working first. When facing another D.S.C., the Berserks really come in handy, as does the Rushing River.

BelcherGifts: I’ve had the most experience against this deck. Gifts is just plain better and the only thing to do is try to beat it out and make sure they don’t cast Gifts. Careful when you attack b/c you want to make you have enough power to kill them, otherwise, you’ll be dealing with their D.S.C. on the field as well. In that case, that’s their defense until they go off. It is possible to beat it out, but not all the time. It’s a clocked game more or less.

FCG: Oath should be able to beat it out. Just cast Oath and swing away as fast as possible. Play the control game with it to beat it.

I need more playtesting against all of these decks, perhaps except BelcherGifts, and a few other decks out there as well. Oath is not a dead card, we just need to start playing around with it.


Future Changes- From tournament
Dispersal Shield - I'm sticking with the card. It was actually a very helpful card throughout my plays. I love countering Black Lotus or Mox Sapphire, *shrugs*

Cutting Eternal Witness- After using her, I ended up using her as S/B space. With D.S.C. + Dragon Breath, she just got in the way. She’s good in some cases, but I plan on replacing her with some other card.

Pernicious Deed/Rushing River – Too many 1 of’s in the deck and that effected the consistency of the deck. I only used River as FoW fodder or a S/B slot. I never saw the Deed except for when it was in my graveyard.

Intuition – The card is good, but not really all that good in the deck. I’m going to playtest with Gifts over Intuition as I find that Gifts will more likely be involved in ending the game faster. (for ex. Gifts for Berserk, Berserk, Berserk, Time Walk)

Accumulated Knowledge – I’m losing the Intuition, than the rest of engine should go. I am adding 4x Mana Drain to the deck.

My S/B will be better suited for my Metagame next time. I’ll up my Energy Flux one more and probably add 2-3 Null rods over the Oxidizes.
The rest will take more thought.

Anywho, this is my first shot at this sort of deck discussion/report, so tell me what I can to make it better next time, deckwise and with the report. Thanks.

(BTW: i named it Runaway Train b/c a Berserked D.S.C. with Haste reminds me of one. I am in NO WAY trying to say that I am the first to make this deck and claim credit of whatever.)

[MoxMonkey]

Balance did win you that game and me thinking Ancestral was worth casting when I was at like - life with 2 forces in hand.  The deck is very cool and can pull stuff out from no where.  DSC is good but the question has to be said is he better than a akroma with all the STP and Bounce going around and that random Platz that some crazy monkey is running.     
I think Witness was the reason I was able to pull out Game 2 because I knew everything you had MB and could figure what you might bring in.  I think with some work it could be a houe but first we have to cut Witness and the Shields they are nice but not like Duress or Drain nice.  I would also look into trying to fit in a couple of Watselands and strip mine since LftL is awesome with them.  After some testing you'll be able to pull a mox with this no problems and nice match.  Berserked DSC so Owned me.

[VarienTanafres]

Yea, i'm adding 2x Living Wish and taking out Witness. I know about the Swords and that's why I'm keeping the shields and adding Drains. Higher amount of counters.
As to adding more land period is a good start b/c I got mana screwed a few times over the day.

Cards I'd like to Cut/Add:
- Gush
- Rushing River (to S/B)
- P. Deed
- E. Witness
- 3x Accumulated Knowledge
- 2x Intuition
- 2x Ground Seal (To S/B)
- 1x Dispersal Shield
- Island ?
- Swamp?

+ 3x Duress
+ 2x Gifts Ungiven
+ 4x Mana Drain
+ Strip MIne?
+ 1x Wasteland?

For right now, I added Arcanius Omipotent for fun. A. Recall every turn since Dragon Breath goes to him. But he's just for fun for now.

[Rafka]

Intuition – The card is good, but not really all that good in the deck. I’m going to playtest with Gifts over Intuition as I find that Gifts will more likely be involved in ending the game faster. (for ex. Gifts for Berserk, Berserk, Berserk, Time Walk)

You must search for 4 different cards when Gift resolves so that plan doesn't work. If you put in Recoup, Y. Will, Tinker, and Time Walk in a pile, I'm sure good things will happen as long as you have a red and black source in play.

[VarienTanafres]

Intuition – The card is good, but not really all that good in the deck. I’m going to playtest with Gifts over Intuition as I find that Gifts will more likely be involved in ending the game faster. (for ex. Gifts for Berserk, Berserk, Berserk, Time Walk)

You must search for 4 different cards when Gift resolves so that plan doesn't work. If you put in Recoup, Y. Will, Tinker, and Time Walk in a pile, I'm sure good things will happen as long as you have a red and black source in play.

Ah, proving my name ot be Uber Noob. I missed that part, but I'm sure I can still work something out. I was thinking about Recoup in the deck....thanks for the correction.

[MoxMonkey]

Regrowth is really fun to throw in a gifts Pile if your going to run a couple of Gifts.  I would rethink the counter base cause Mana Leak should be solid as well since it can be on turn 1 with a mox and land and pay 3 mana in T1 thats a hard counter from Turn 1-5 and if you didn't win before then your not going to be winning most likly.  Just a thought.

[VarienTanafres]

Regrowth is really fun to throw in a gifts Pile if your going to run a couple of Gifts.  I would rethink the counter base cause Mana Leak should be solid as well since it can be on turn 1 with a mox and land and pay 3 mana in T1 thats a hard counter from Turn 1-5 and if you didn't win before then your not going to be winning most likly.  Just a thought.

no your right, the wins I got on Sunday generally happened within the first 5 turns. I only won late games like 3 times. I'll take the Dispersal Shield out and try Mana Leak over it.

[Khahan]

From your original list try:
-3  Dispersal Shield
-1 Daze

+4 Muddle the mixture.


Muddle will stop anything you would want dispersal shield to stop (STP). Before you need to stop STP, you can use muddle as a tutor to fetch out your Oath.  I don't know why you seem to think that you can't get UU open in Oath easily.

-3 AK
+1 Brainstorm (always, always run 4 in Oath. Never, never play w/ less than 4 in oath).
+2 Telling Time

-1 Ground Seal
+1 Oath  You aren't going to win unless this is in play. Put 4 in your deck, always alway always to increase your chances it having it opening hand.

I won't touch your win condition base (creatures, dragon's breath/berserk). How you win with Oath seems to be more a personal preference and I don't see why that shouldn't work out ok for you.  Though if you want another creature, try [card]woodripper[/card]. It deals with a lot of artifacts. Its a 5/5 body and if you fail to find oath, you can hard cast it.

[VarienTanafres]

Yea, i saw someone else using Muddle the mixture in his Oath deck there. I suppose I could try it out, Transmutate makes it interesting for sure.

I find Woodripper awesome as well, but I don't have any and have yet to find some around here. I am working on getting 1 into my S/B.

4x Brainstorm I found isn't really necessary in Oath and I have playtested with only 3 of them and discovered that 3 is enough. I really don't even run Brainstorm in other blue decks b/c it's not THAT good.

thanks for the input, I'll get some testing in and see what cards work.

[nataz]

4x Brainstorm I found isn't really necessary in Oath and I have playtested with only 3 of them and discovered that 3 is enough. I really don't even run Brainstorm in other blue decks b/c it's not THAT good.

but seriously,

I would reconsider the Brainstorms. You really dont want to be caught with a DSC in hand, with no way to get it back into the Lib. Sure, you can TFK it, but you only run 3, and sometimes it just will not be doable. Not to mention the fact that BS draws 3 for 1 mana at instant speed, and you have about 9 ways to clear dead cards off your lib post Brainstorm. 

Also, since Oath is supposed to be your main win condition, I think you absolutely have to run 4, especialy if you are running a 60+ card deck.

As far as running Zerk and Dragons breath, meh. If you have to keep zerk I suppose thats fine, although it seems situational/win more. Generally, once a DSC is on the board, id rather have spots devoted to protecting him, then spots trying to speed him up. If you are worried about speed, one of the things you should constantly be thinking of is the ability oath DSC, then tutor in your upkeep for TW. That functions the same as the breath, but again, less wasted spots.

anyways, good luck with everything. You certainly have an odd build, but there are some very intersting choices such as muddle LFTL.

[VarienTanafres]

I would reconsider the Brainstorms. You really dont want to be caught with a DSC in hand, with no way to get it back into the Lib. Sure, you can TFK it, but you only run 3, and sometimes it just will not be doable. Not to mention the fact that BS draws 3 for 1 mana at instant speed, and you have about 9 ways to clear dead cards off your lib post Brainstorm. 

True I know, I'm currently around with 3. If it continues to work, then I save a slot, if I decide that it's better with the 4th, I'll kill a different card and add the 4th.

If you are worried about speed, one of the things you should constantly be thinking of is the ability oath DSC, then tutor in your upkeep for TW. That functions the same as the breath, but again, less wasted spots.

not the same as Dragon's Breath. Gives my opponent a full turn to deal with Colossus. In many cases, it's not that hard. Dragon's Breath + Berserk = GG. No extra turn about it. Bersek isn't restircted, so I have a better chance of having one in my hand then having mystical or TW, or drawing into them.

You certainly have an odd build, but there are some very intersting choices such as muddle LFTL.

heh, yea, originally i had mana issues, that helped a bit, besides, LFTL helps DSC get back into the Lib after a Brainstorm. I added Strip and Wasteland to the deck, so recurring Strips help keep some other decks at bay and helps me against Stax.