Yawgmoth's Will in MBC

[DeMarki]

Do you agree that Will isn't that effective in MBC in comparison to other combo/control decks?
I really can't tell if I should include it or not, if yes then I have to replace a Vampiric Tutor.
Here's my decklist:

4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinhole
4 Dark Ritual
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Nantuko Shade

3 Nether Void
3 Powder Keg
1 Necropotence
1 Vampiric Tutor/Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation

1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Polluted Delta
12 Swamp

Many people say that Will should be included in every deck that runs black, but I'm not that sure about this one since after Void hits play, problably on turn 3-5, then Will is totally unplayable while Vampiric can still be played.
Will is supposed to be played usually in turns >4, in order to replay a Ritual or two/wasteland/discard/sinhole etc

Vampiric on the other side can fetch the Void on early turns if needed, but what else to fetch since you get the card on your next turn? Perhaps a Strip mine/wasteland but most spells are played 3-4 copies and they're not hard to get.
What do you you suggest me to do? After weeks of playtesting I will appreciate the advice of more experienced players. Thanx!

[Brutha]

Do you agree that Will isn't that effective in MBC in comparison to other combo/control decks?

Is that a honest question? Will is a bomb. Even when the Void is in play a Will can still Recycle a Wasteland.

Many people say that Will should be included in every deck that runs black, but I'm not that sure about this one since after Void hits play, problably on turn 3-5, then Will is totally unplayable while Vampiric can still be played.

  If you plan to play Void on turn 3-5 in a deck withoud carddraw and you aren't playing 4 Voids than there is something wrong with your gameplan.
If you Netdeck a deck like Nether Void you should at least understand it's gameplan. The deck tries to distrupt the enemy in the first turns and uses Void only to prevent the opponent from recovering.

I would rather play Crucible/Chimeric Idol/Nether Spirit than your creature base.

[Methuselahn]

Yawgmoth's Will does not belong in every deck that has black mana.  You cannot just make this kind of blanket statement.  For example, many Turbo-land type decks don't use Will because it interrupts them going off.  You are probably better off with a different card if it gives you better results.

This list is so old* that I've probably forgotten how to play the deck, but I'd imagine that Vampiric Tutor may be a suitable replacement.

I politely suggest that you do some online research in the field of black based Vintage decks.

*Seriously, Powder Kegs? 

[Brutha]

Yawgmoth's Will does not belong in every deck that has black mana.  You cannot just make this kind of blanket statement.  For example, many Turbo-land type decks don't use Will because it interrupts them going off.  You are probably better off with a different card if it gives you better results.

Naturally their are some decks that want to replay a card more than once, but this deck has no other use for its graveyard.

To quote from a old Void primer:

The Yawgmoth's will is one of the best cards in the format and it is also in this deck a game deciding card, with the help of dark Ritual you can sometimes replay your whole graveyard.
Under a Nether Void the Will may appear useless but it can be played to replay Wasteland or Stripmine to destroy an additional land.

[dre4m]

In a deck such as this, Yawgmoth's Will will often be your saving grace if:
a) You haven't been able to draw Nether Void, but you have a graveyard full of wastelands/discard/dark rituals/sinkholes.
b) Your opponant has managed to deal with your Void, and you have some rituals/discard in your graveyard.
c) All your win conditions have died and you need to replay one.

Many other situations exist in which yawgwin is extremely desirable, and the only situation in which you would not want it would be if you have the game locked  down under Void, in which case you are on the road to victory anyways.

[DeMarki]

I politely suggest that you do some online research in the field of black based Vintage decks.

*Seriously, Powder Kegs? 

I did my research as well as my playtesting and I figured that this is a MBC version that I really like and suits my playstyle.
My only question that I have left is what should be more suitable in this deck, Will or Vampiric?

Powder Keg is my best removal cause it helps against almost every annoying artifact as well as 1-3cc creature. I cannot deal with Colossus nor with Akroma, but really, do you think that I should run Edicts just in case I run into these creatures? cause Keg handles almost everything else including artifacts.

[Draven]

DeMarki:

Yawgs Will is good. I would run it over the vamp. On a side note though, you are correct about the Void/Will interaction. Could you consider replacing the Voids with Withered Wretch? They will basically do the same thing, but it comes with a 2/2 body and it doesn't screw your Will. Otherwise good deck.

Oh, and on the edicts, I would run a couple. DSC and Oath'd creatures run rampant (at least in my meta). Good Luck.

[DeMarki]

DeMarki:

Yawgs Will is good. I would run it over the vamp. On a side note though, you are correct about the Void/Will interaction. Could you consider replacing the Voids with Withered Wretch? They will basically do the same thing, but it comes with a 2/2 body and it doesn't screw your Will. Otherwise good deck.

Oh, and on the edicts, I would run a couple. DSC and Oath'd creatures run rampant (at least in my meta). Good Luck.

In my meta people don't run many Colossus/Morphlings but many stupid weenies and artifacts, so keg takes good care of them.

Why don't people play Vampiric Tutor in these kind of decks? It has too many drawbacks for a MBC deck?

[Draven]

Why don't people play Vampiric Tutor in these kind of decks? It has too many drawbacks for a MBC deck?

My bet is there are a couple reasons:

1. Vamp has always had the negative connotation of costing a card and 2 life.

2. MBC is a really consistant deck, meaning there are alot of 3 and 4 of's and not alot of bombs. Even Yawgs Will isn't a bomb in this deck like it is in say Gifts or Long. So instead of wasting a turn in this slot, people tend to just put more business in this slot.

If you have alot of weanies in your meta, have you considered Decree of Pain (!) You never will cast it, but it cycles for 5, gives everything -2/-2 and you draw a card, so it is uncounterable weanie destruction. Just a thought...

[DeMarki]

Why don't people play Vampiric Tutor in these kind of decks? It has too many drawbacks for a MBC deck?

2. MBC is a really consistant deck, meaning there are alot of 3 and 4 of's and not alot of bombs. Even Yawgs Will isn't a bomb in this deck like it is in say Gifts or Long. So instead of wasting a turn in this slot, people tend to just put more business in this slot.

Do you think that in this kind of deck Yawgmoth's Will would be a better replacement that Vampiric?

[Draven]

Definatly. Yawgs Will is way better in this deck than Vamp. Actually, without Will, Vamp is horrible. Will makes vamp a little better, but still not worth the slot IMO.

In this deck, Will is great for a huge burst of "draw." You are going to be able to replay some Dark Rits, Duress, Sink Holes, Wasteland and a creature. So it is good, just not the instant game winner it is in other decks.

[TheUprisal]

I hate sinkhole in this deck.  Always have;  One of my friends plays MBC and uses 4 sinks, and they always seem win-more. 

A early-game Sinkhole doesn't really do much if it is not followed IMMEDIATELY by a Void.
A late-game Sinkhole can be nuts, cutting off a splash color.  But late-game it is a BB stripmine, when you could be just winning with your Shade.

I agree, Vamp Tutor sucks.  Id run Confidant all day over that card in this deck, or if the lifeloss scares you, Top.

Or (call me crazy) but Phyrexian Arena is SICK in here in place of V. Tutor.

Is B 2life card disadvantage better than 1BB 1 life permadent card advantage? No way.  Plus if it gets scary, you can kill it w/ keg.

[Draven]

I hate sinkhole in this deck.  Always have;  One of my friends plays MBC and uses 4 sinks, and they always seem win-more. 

A early-game Sinkhole doesn't really do much if it is not followed IMMEDIATELY by a Void.
A late-game Sinkhole can be nuts, cutting off a splash color.  But late-game it is a BB stripmine, when you could be just winning with your Shade.

I agree, Vamp Tutor sucks.  Id run Confidant all day over that card in this deck, or if the lifeloss scares you, Top.

Or (call me crazy) but Phyrexian Arena is SICK in here in place of V. Tutor.

Is B 2life card disadvantage better than 1BB 1 life card advantage? you BET.  Plus if it gets scary, you can kill it w/ keg.

I couldn't quite follow you on the Arena vs Confidant argument, so if I am agreeing with you, sorry

I think confidant and Arnea share the same role and therefore should be one or the other. I would opt for the confidant becasue it comes with a 2/1 body. That is the same reason I go for Wretch over Tormads or Furnace.

I really think Sinkhole is a preference card. Some peeps love 'em, some hate 'em. I use a combination of SinkHoles and Shadow of Doubt MD.

[edit] Fixed Typo

[49 Cents]

Is B 2life card disadvantage better than 1BB 1 life card advantage? you BET.  Plus if it gets scary, you can kill it w/ keg.

Keg doesn't kill Enchantments actually.

[TheUprisal]

Is B 2life card disadvantage better than 1BB 1 life card advantage? you BET.  Plus if it gets scary, you can kill it w/ keg.

Keg doesn't kill Enchantments actually.

Excuse me, I just got owned.

But in all seriousness, I think if you dont win with Arena's advantage before it kills you, then you shouldn't have won the game anyway.  And Arena will win you games you don't deserve to win.

[DeMarki]

Is B 2life card disadvantage better than 1BB 1 life card advantage? you BET.  Plus if it gets scary, you can kill it w/ keg.

Keg doesn't kill Enchantments actually.

But it does kill creatures+artifacts, which other cards like Edict, Contagion or Darkblast don't. So it's probably better than those.