Token_Sligh_Player
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« on: December 07, 2005, 01:40:16 pm » |
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I am playing in a stacks and combo heavy meta(five color stacks and uba as well as some 2 land belcher and grim-long)
4 thirst for knowledge 4 brainstorm 4 force of will 4 mana drain 2 gifts ungiven 2 merchant scroll 2 gorilla shaman 2 pithing needle 1 tinker 1 demonic tutor 1 vampiric tutor 1 yagmouth's will 1 time walk 1 fact or fiction 1 mystical tutor 1 ancestral recall 1 recoup 1 burning wish 1 black lotus 1 mox jet 1 mox emerald 1 mox pearl 1 mox ruby 1 mox sapphire 1 mana crypt 1 mana vault 1 darksteel colossus 1 goblin charbealcher 1 tendrils of agony 3 islands 1 snowcovered island 2 flooded strand 2 polluted delta 3 underground sea 3 volcanic island 1 tolarian academy
sideboard 1 tendrils of agony 1 mana severance' 1 pyroclasm 1 echoing ruin 1 eye of nowhere 2 red elemental blast 1 pyroblast 2 pithing needle 2 tormod's crypt 1 hurkly's recall 1 rack and ruin 1 rebuild
tomorrow i will give a card by card breakdown and all advice, questions, comments and queries are welcome
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49 Cents
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Von Dutch
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« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2005, 01:56:56 pm » |
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You play with Tendrils maindeck, but no Rebuild? Play one, it houses Staxx..
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MoxMonkey
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All your Moxen Belong to Me.
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« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2005, 02:16:34 pm » |
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1 Vampiric Tutor - 2 merchant scroll - 2 gorilla shaman - 2 pithing needle - 1 goblin Charbelcher - 1 tendrils of agony -
You should go for 1 alternate or the other combining many win conditions in SSB/Gifts decks is not that great trust me I'm trying it out too. Sine your in a Stax heavy Metagame now I would suggest going with the Tendrils 2 Rebuild Echoing Truth plan with other maindeck hate cards. I would drop a Needle and Belcher for 2 Rebuilds and play around with the Merchant scroll and shamans changing for different cards that are metagame dependent. I also like Echoing Truth main as an out but thats more my play style.
Those are for the most part your random maindeck cards that are different and should/can change depending on your metagame.
sideboard 1 tendrils of agony 1 mana severance - if you drop Belcher like I suggest replace this with Imperial Seal 1 pyroclasm 1 echoing ruin 1 eye of nowhere 2 red elemental blast 1 pyroblast 2 pithing needle - I have never seen a need for more than 2-3 Needles between Main and Side I only run 2 in my build 2 tormod's crypt 1 hurkly's recall - Probably not needed since you have the 2 Rebuilds main 1 rack and ruin - Annuals are awesome since you have rebuilds main if your going with Tendrils 1 rebuild - Main already
For your SB I would put a Bounce spell like Rushing River and Engineered Plague so you kill Welders Annuls are great vs Stax Darkblast if you see Welders Misdirections are good Other than that its fine if you like the belcher leave it but I would put the severance main so you can tutor for it. A lot of people hate Vamp in the deck I'm not one of them but thats something to say.
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PucktheCat
My interests include blue decks, arguing, and beer.
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2005, 03:50:30 pm » |
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Are the 5c Stax you face Welder builds or no? Do they run enchantment heavy locks or closer to the pure artifact lock? If the 5c decks are running Welder and aren't using a lot of enchantments (In the Eye of Chaos and Choke) then you can run one plan to deal with both decks, but if the 5c decks are more Cron style builds you will have to have somewhat seperate approaches. Regardless of which versions you are facing, running 6 duals/4 Island/4 fetch is terrible. To beat Stax you need to make basic land drops every turn until you can cast your bounce and win. I think 4 duals are the most you can afford in a Stax heavy metagame. Oh and: You play with Tendrils maindeck, but no Rebuild? Play one, it houses Staxx.. What he said. Leo
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Token_Sligh_Player
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2005, 10:21:37 am » |
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As promised i will give a card by card breakdown of my current deck.
4 brainstorm and 4 thirst for knowledge-This is the basic draw engine of the deck, very standard and that is the end of it.
4 force of will and 4 mana drain-The main defense of this deck, buys you time till you can find your win condition of the deck. Also the mana drain is the most important spell in the deck allowing you to go off and win on a regular basis.
2 gifts ungiven-Usually nets you land or combo pieces and sometimes in the control or mirror match gives you counter advantage.
2 merchant scroll-allows for early game recall or late game gifts. Will also on occasion net you a drain to protect your win condition.
2 Gorilla Shaman and 2 Pithing Needle-allow for early game disruption and to get around chalice for 0 and 2 which are the worst for the deck. Pithing needle allows you to have a chance against wasteland/stripmine lock plus stops 2 land in its tracks.
Tinker, Demonic tutor, Vampiric tutor,Yag will, time walk, FoF, Mystical, Recall, Recoup-If you do not know why you play these in the deck why don't you go outside and hit your self in the head with a tack hammer.
pearl, emerald, ruby, jet, sapphire, lotus, crypt, vault-if you do not know what these do refer to above statement.
DSC, belcher, burning wish, tendrils-because of the number of stacks deck which usually run the artifact lock, running 4 conditions of victory allows you to get around jester's cap even if the get through a welder some how or cast the cap you can still win. This is a problem since not only stacks plays it but also the control slaver decks in my area.
I will breakdown the sideboard soon but i would like to thank everyone for there imput and keep the comments comming i need to do better than what i did at the last RIW tourney. Hopefully J-Dizzle doesn't mull to 5 and beat me this time and hopefully i can remeber how to use pithing needle and not feel like a noob. Oh well i am ranting now so i guess i have to go to class goodbye.
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forests failed you
De Stijl
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2005, 11:26:48 am » |
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Darkblast isn't a terrible way to deal with opposing Welders, Shamans and Xantid Swarms.
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Grand Prix Boston 2012 Champion Follow me on Twitter: @BrianDeMars1
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Gaagooch
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2005, 11:43:11 am » |
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If you are really worried about Stax you can do what we did and throw a single tundra in your deck and sideboard sacred grounds. They are not that great thus the reasoning behind me cutting them. An amazing card to run in the board for Stax is Annul, it stops them from playing their artifacts, its more counters. I would also agree with the sideboarding of darkblast to deal with their welders. Try testing a decklist like this or very similar. I have used this deck for consecutive top 8's at the beanie exchange events and have been testing it for a few months now with three win conditions in the main. The only thing i would change is the sideboard me and my teammate decided on what to do with the sideboard and then i forgot, the only thing i remember is the sideboard needs a rebuild so you can board it in, because rebuild is that good.
GAGOOCH 4 polluted delta 1 flooded strand 2 volcanic island 2 underground sea 5 island 1 tolarian academy 7 SoLo moxen 1 lotus petal 1 mana crypt 1 mana vault 1 yawgmoth will 1 recoup 1 time walk 1 ancestral recall 4 mana drain 4 force of will 4 brainstorm 4 thirst for knowledge 1 gorilla shaman 3 gifts ungiven 1 mana severance 1 burning wish 1 tendrils of agony 1 rebuild 1 echoing truth 1 demonic tutor 1 mystical tutor 1 fact or fiction 1 goblin charlbelcher 1 sundering titan
sb: 1 rack and ruin 1 pyroclasm 1 deep analysis 1 tendrils of agony 2 pithing needle 3 annul 2 pyroblast 2 red elemental blast 2 darkblast
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Fantaman
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2005, 04:44:56 pm » |
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How about one cunning wish main deck?
and...why you put tendrils maindeck?
mhm change it....
More powerfull a cunninge main deck for your darkblast or reb or another draw/solution card in the side!
thanx!
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Anusien
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2005, 12:46:52 am » |
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Yeah, you may want a Rebuild main, so you can use one before going off with Tendrils in order to buy yourself some time. I've heard running a basic Swamp main isn't bad either because it guarantees you get Waste-free access to black, which gets you Darkblast on Welders, and possibly Duress.
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
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Gaagooch
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2005, 07:07:05 pm » |
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My decklists mana base is super tight, and i never really have a problem with not having black. the only instance i did was when i was playing against belcher of the two land variety. cunning wish really is not needed in this deck as the sideboard is super tight as well there is no room for any draw spells other than deep analysis. Not only that but running cunning wish would mean i have to change the maindeck as well. This deck plays amazingly at least for me. i love the way it performs and i think the decklist is about where i want it to be. Running the tendrills and the mana severance main allows me to actually use burning wish as a utility card as opposed to a tendrills or severance target. I mean there are only four targets in the board anyhow, but i would much rather use the wish for deep analysis so i can get some cards, than have to save it for tendrills or severance.
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--I am the walrus..Goo Goo Gaagooch--
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shoeboxtony
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2005, 04:07:03 pm » |
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i was running a gift build w/the thirst (since i run 2x md needles) but i ended up dropping 2 of them and the lone cunning wish for 3x duress. dropping the cunning allowed me to shore up the sb rather than have it be a huge tool box of wish targets. here's my current sb.
1x boseiju - i know some md it, but i hate seeing it early, esp vs stax 1x needle - jst too good, naming bazaa, welder, waste/strip, shaman, karn 1x darkblast - welder, xantid, shaman, hate 1x chainer's edict - post sb oath match up esp. when the bring in the untargetable creatures i cant bounce 1x tendrils 1x pyroclasm - fish will truely never die, lol. 1x mana severance 1x sacred ground - wasteland/stax hate, i md 1x tundra 1x balance 1x rebuild 2x rack/ruin 1x pyroblast 2x reb
hope this helps... -tony
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Gaagooch
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2005, 06:22:15 pm » |
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Your sideboard is completely different from mine i assume because you play in a different metagame...here is my most recent sideboard for reference...
1 rack and ruin 1 pyroclasm 1 deep analysis 1 tendrils of agony 2 pithing needle 3 annul 2 pyroblast 2 red elemental blast 2 darkblast
We are going to test an echoing ruin in the rack and ruin spot so we have artifact destruction as a wish target, it is that or primitive justice, and so far echoing ruin has proved to be the better of the two. Why do you run Boseiju, i understand that post board it allows for you to play your spells un-checked, but its just not that good anymore, at least where i play. I also do not see very much oath so i have no reason for chainers edict, and if i do face oath i can board in annul if i feel it needed. There is an ongoing argument about whether or not mana severance should be maindecked or sideboared. I personally prefer to maindeck it so that my burning wish is a tool card, not always a win condition. As my maindeck list above states i also run one maindeck tendrills, again making my burning wish a utility card. Running one sacred ground in the sideboard is about as good as running none. When i did play it in my sideboard i played three of them, but i never boarded them in once until the top 8. i lost in that match up pretty easily due to nuts draws by him in games one and three and him being a very good stax player. Balance does not help you at all, i don't board it in against fish, and that is the only deck i could see playing it against, but what does balance do that pyroclasm does not to fish. If the fish match up bothers you try running a few old man of the sea in the sideboard, they are a pretty hot answer sometimes. Rack and Ruin just has not really proven itself to me even as a one of in the sideboard so as i said it has probably been cut for something like echoing ruin. I don't have a clue what your maindeck looks like but it has to be cramped for space you are running 4 drains, 4 force, and 3 duress? In the main? Thats 11 disruption spells, thats a little excessive, one of the main problems we had with this deck was its inherent lack of draw, so we fit in thirst for knowledges as a four of, and i couldn't be happier with the deck. You run all of the artifact acceleration, so a higher percentage of the time you will have an artifact to discard. I understand that duress helps you win the gifts mirror, but do you know what card is better in the gifts mirror? Sundering Titan, obviously my oppinion, you basically play the same mana base as every other gifts deck so tinker/titan usually means they keep no land in play, and you usually don't lose any, but may lose one. Can you possibly post your maindeck list so i can see where everything fits in and compare it to my own? I'm intrigued to see the differences to be honest.
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