The Many Faces of Control Slaver

[MoxMonkey]

This is the list I ran at Waterbury.  I had few problems with it other than being up for 48 hours before entering the event.  I made a ton of stupid playmistakes that cost me the last rounds and My forth Round Fish opponent was the biggest Lucksack Ever.

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Burning Wish
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Triskelion
1 DSC
1 Mindslaver
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical tutor
1 Echoing Truth

1 Tolarian Acedemy
1 LOA
3 Island
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Fetchlands
3 Volcanic island
2 underground Sea
1 Black lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana crypt

My SB had Tendrils, Recoup and some other stuff I don't Remember.
If i could go back I would have run Titan over DSC.  I would have cut burning Wish for Something else. and I would have put 2 PyroClasm in my SB instead of My Uber tech Lava Darts.  I think Rack and Ruin could make a Comeback at least in my list to the main since I saw Aether Vials and Null Rods and or 4 Triskelions on the board in almost every match up.  I will be testing and hopefully can come up with a better build for the metagame.

I do not think you need more than 2 Gifts Ungiven in Slaver and I would cut 1 for FoF anyway.  NE is also now the new home of Mishra's workshop since them and Oath Tried there best to over run everything.  Also Hopefully Tog gets picked up again thats a Match up I love

[Penguin]

@ MoxMonkey: I assume you made your list from Brian's since you guys are on the same team I think (right?) and I question why did you decide to cut Vampiric tutor as well as mana crypt?  I could understand cutting mana vault but vampiric tutor and mana crypt seem like solid choices for this deck.  I would also agree on putting pyroclasms in the board over lava darts as they are practically wrath of gods and could be used defensively at worst case scenarios against Oath killing your tokens.

I always keep a couple Rack and Ruins in my Sideboard just in case I end up playing matches like you did seeing multiple vials, and other pesky artifacts.

Yes, I have noticed now that Workshops are going through a craze up in NE since I believe 1/8th of Waterbury was Workshops, maybe more.

[Akuma]

General comments not directed at anyone in particular, feedback is always welcome:

Re: Mana Vault

I absolutely hate this card in Slaver. It's a non-reusable mana source that provides a +2 mana advantage. If you are not running an artifact land (Seat or Citadel), I can maybe see running this card. Null Rod and Chalice for 1 are also prevalent issues. Why are people still running this?

Re: Burning Wish

Does this card do enough for those of you who run it? How many sorceries do you actually run in the sideboard? The only thing I would use this for is Pyroclasm. Might as well just use Cunning Wish. The tempo loss is comparable, but there are at least more targets available, and you don't need to butcher your sideboard. And Tendrils is just not really happening, if you can play x spells and fire off a tendrils for the win, you could have probably beaten your opponent with just about anything at that point.

Re: Vampiric Tutor

If you are only running 2 Seas, this card starts to look really unattractive. It's better to stick to blue and red options, aside from Demonic and Will of course. It seems like duals are much like Lotus Petals these days.

With all that being said, I like MoxMonkeys list, it looks pretty solid + plus he said he would dump the Burning Wish 

[MoxMonkey]

Edit one more time I think I had to cut the 4th Volcanic Island for Crypt at Waterbury I could be wrong we see when the decklist go up/.  Crypt wouldn't leave my list cause it goes away via Tinker and can be pitched to Thirst and or cast thirst early.  Maybe I didn't run Gifts and had 26 mana sources I'm not sure.  I will fix my list once it goes up.

I don't like Vampiric Tutor unless I'm running Tormod's Crypt or something like that mainboard and then it goes instead of Mystical.  I do have a couple Racks SB but it doesn't help when you need something gone Game 1.  I have a better SB now with Pyroclasm's and my Savage Lava Dart's.  I do not think having Vamp Mystical and Demonic is really needed in Slaver if you can find the room then props but I like how it ran without them. 

Props on the Awesome Name too. Penguin. Oh man savage.

RE: My list has been very Savage and I love Burning Wish cause I have lost Games due to Yawg Will not ending the game but I drew it a million times with that DSC and got pissed off all day.  That is the reason I would cut it.  Mana Vault is very Good but with all the Null rods it isn't hardcasting Triskelion like it use too.

[Lou]

General comments not directed at anyone in particular, feedback is always welcome:

Re: Mana Vault

I absolutely hate this card in Slaver. It's a non-reusable mana source that provides a +2 mana advantage. If you are not running an artifact land (Seat or Citadel), I can maybe see running this card. Null Rod and Chalice for 1 are also prevalent issues. Why are people still running this?

Re: Burning Wish

Does this card do enough for those of you who run it? How many sorceries do you actually run in the sideboard? The only thing I would use this for is Pyroclasm. Might as well just use Cunning Wish. The tempo loss is comparable, but there are at least more targets available, and you don't need to butcher your sideboard. And Tendrils is just not really happening, if you can play x spells and fire off a tendrils for the win, you could have probably beaten your opponent with just about anything at that point.

Re: Vampiric Tutor

If you are only running 2 Seas, this card starts to look really unattractive. It's better to stick to blue and red options, aside from Demonic and Will of course. It seems like duals are much like Lotus Petals these days.

With all that being said, I like MoxMonkeys list, it looks pretty solid + plus he said he would dump the Burning Wish 

I'll hit ya up.

Re: Mana Vault - This card is busted in Slaver.  Are you kidding me?  Even with a Citadel or a Seat, I want this card in here just in case of Chalice at zero and I really need an artifact in play to Weld out.  If this just so happens to be a Slaver I want to Weld in, I am now halfway towards activation as well.

Re: Burning Wish - I don't play this card in Slaver.  It is slow, and it is clunkier than the clunk you already have.  I don't like Burning Wish in Slaver.

Re: Vampiric Tutor - What a great tutor.  I don't like Vampiric Tutor in Slaver, however.  Cracking a fetch or laying down an Underground Sea any earlier than is absolutely necessary is just not worth it to me most of the time.  I would rather have an answer in this slot, such as Rack and Ruin, bounce, or some other metagamed choice.

Now, I am not by any means saying that the Wish or the Tutor are bad in Slaver.  They are good, in the right build.

[Metman]

Mana Vault:  It is far to necessary to discard and weld artifacts in Slaver not to run a cheap mana producing artifact like mana vault.  I personally have stuck with 4 welders because I find them too useful even when not absolutely necessary to get the Slaver online.  The Mana Vault stays in along with an artifact land and Lotus Petal.

Vampiric Tutor:  CS is full of bombs ie Ancestral, Yawg, Tinker, Shaman, plus the big artifacts that are essential to dump and weld using Thirst and Welder.  Although I think Vamp is the weakest of the big three I think it is necessary to fill the gaps your opening hand and first couple draws don't fill.  I run 4 Fetchies, 2 Undergrounds, a Lotus Mox Petal and 4 Brainstorms.  I've never had a problem getting and keeping a black source on the table. 

Mana Crypt:  I'm not sure why this wouldn't be included in any deck that can use a quick boost.  Plus with Thirst and Welder its never just lying around nor a dead draw.  It's better than the MV; it's an auto-inclusion IMO.

Burning Wish:  I like Cunning Wish better and I hate Cunning Wish in CS.  It's janky and slow.  The only reason to play the Burning Wish is to play the alternate kill with Tendrils.  It's been said before, but if you just spent your resources getting CS's gameplan rolling you would have finished the game anyway.  There aren't enough sorcery sources that you could play SB that you aren't playing in the MD.

Gifts Ungiven:  It's a bomb!  I currently play one and have considered a second.  The only problem that I find with it is the lack of Recoup in the deck.  I will often get Ancestral and but I'll lose my Yawg or Tinker which I value much higher.  The Recoup would be a bomb that I would include if I decided to run 2 or more copies of Gifts.  But then I would just play Gifts.dec

My biggest dilema is the decision to play a bounce spell and if so which.  Anybody that could provide some insight as to include/exclude from their list would be helpful.  If you advocate playing one, which one have you chosen and why.  Another question I have is including a Crucible of Worlds and Strip Mine.  I feel like it would protect my mana base in significant ways plus include a nice way to hamper their resources along side the Shaman.  Who has tested the Recoup, Crucible/Strip, and the bounce MD and what have you found to be useful and worthy of inclusion?

[Lou]

Re: Crucible - If you are running Crucible, I unfortunately think that you should not be running Pentavus.  This is such a tough call, because the Bus is so good against not only Stax, but also Fish.  The synergy with Tolarian Academy can get quite stupid.  Crucible is the easier hard lock however, and if that is your goal, then give it a try.  I really don't know about the Strip Mine slot, either.  It seems like a natural inclusion with Crucible, but I can't even bring myself to use Library any more, so I really don't know about Strip Mine being in there.  The more tutors you run would help with selecting Strip Mine over not.

[MoxMonkey]

I have had Recoup an Echoing Truth and Crucible of worlds in Slaver.  I think Recoup is ok but it is a bad card in your opening hand.  I ran it over Wish in My list above and it was alright not that great though.

Bounce possible, Chain of Vapor / Echoing Truth / Rushing River
I pick Echoing since it can bounce Decree token and Orchard Tokens when you need too.  Chain gets hit by Chailce for 1 and River is for me to expensive for the mainboard

I disagree with you Lou being able to mana screw someone and or take out a Workshop, Bazaar or Black mana is Very big at times.  I beat the Gro player because I ran Strip and Wasteland.  They also help out in the fish matchup since Factory beats can add up and having a way to deal with them is nice.

[Metman]

Lou, if I ran a CoW I would automatically run a Strip Mine.  I have tossed the LoA, it has had a special place for me for years but I just can't justify its inclusion anymore; therefore I could find something to take out to replace with Strip Mine.  If I ran Crucible and decided to take the Pentavus out I would without a doubt put it into my SB for the Fish and Stax matchups.  I tend to use my CS SB as alternative artifacts that would help out different matchups.  MD I run Plat, Slaver, Titan, and Pent.  In the SB I have Trike, Crucible, and am trying out Mind's Eye for specific matchups.  Lou, how much experience do you have playing the Crucible?  If you have playtested it what have you concluded in general?

Mox Monkey, I have tested the Recoup and I've found the same as you.  Sometimes its a bomb but often it is dead.  My biggest question though is how usefull is it for those CS players that are running 2plus Gifts?  The Recoup would ease the addition of Yawg, Tinker, and DT for a Gifts pile.  Also, have you found the bounce necessary in most match ups.  I know that sometimes a Chalice, Null Rod or DSC can really really hamper the game plan but does it prove more useful than dead?  If so which are the most common targets chosen for the bounce?

Thanks for the feedback.  I'm really interested in really finetuning my build since I travel frequently and play in unknown metegames. 

[MoxMonkey]

My bounce Has often Hit a Null rod, Random Enchantments (Root Maze, Ground Seal) and DSC and or An oath or Oaths Creature from Time to time.  If your runnign 2+ gifts and still have Welders and stuff I would highly say look into Brassmans Gifts and or Meandeck Gifts since they are just plain better at using them than Slaver.  I like Gifts since it can Super Entomb and or Set up a Stupid good Yawgmoth's Will when I it or Mystical, Demonic in hand. 

I sometimes have 1 SB be for an Artifact I want MB at times but having 2-3 in the board seems like your wasting spots to me.  In a Random Metagame I want at least 3 REB, 2 tormod's Crypt, 2 Rack and Ruins, 2 Fire/Ice or Pyroclasm that only leaves 6 spots and I have nothing against Oath yet if its there.  I have Slaver, Triskelion, DSC or Titan, and Crucible Main and Pentavus is in the board for Fish and Stax but hes really not that great mainboard for me anyway.

[forests failed you]

Mana Vault is retarded in Slaver; if winning is your objective cutting it actually isn't even an option.

Burning Wish is perhaps the best utilitiy card Slaver has:  it gives you the option to answer any card in the format; the cost is that it is slow by two Mana.  The trade off is two mana to not have to run two or three additional cards in place of better more strealined cards maindeck.

Either choice is acceptable.  I just hate drawing dead cards.
Not to mention it is also a huge threat;  It gets Tendrils for the win.

[nataz]

Vampiric Tutor:  CS is full of bombs ie Ancestral, Yawg, Tinker, Shaman, plus the big artifacts that are essential to dump and weld using Thirst and Welder.  Although I think Vamp is the weakest of the big three I think it is necessary to fill the gaps your opening hand and first couple draws don't fill.

Everything but the shaman can be fetched by Mystical, hence why I assume people are questioning the use of Vamp. Is fetching the shaman really worth losing two life and putting an underground in harms way?
 

[Lou]

Lou, if I ran a CoW I would automatically run a Strip Mine.  I have tossed the LoA, it has had a special place for me for years but I just can't justify its inclusion anymore; therefore I could find something to take out to replace with Strip Mine.  If I ran Crucible and decided to take the Pentavus out I would without a doubt put it into my SB for the Fish and Stax matchups.  I tend to use my CS SB as alternative artifacts that would help out different matchups.  MD I run Plat, Slaver, Titan, and Pent.  In the SB I have Trike, Crucible, and am trying out Mind's Eye for specific matchups.  Lou, how much experience do you have playing the Crucible?  If you have playtested it what have you concluded in general?

Mox Monkey, I have tested the Recoup and I've found the same as you.  Sometimes its a bomb but often it is dead.  My biggest question though is how usefull is it for those CS players that are running 2plus Gifts?  The Recoup would ease the addition of Yawg, Tinker, and DT for a Gifts pile.  Also, have you found the bounce necessary in most match ups.  I know that sometimes a Chalice, Null Rod or DSC can really really hamper the game plan but does it prove more useful than dead?  If so which are the most common targets chosen for the bounce?

Thanks for the feedback.  I'm really interested in really finetuning my build since I travel frequently and play in unknown metegames. 

Testing has revealed that Pentavus is really much better than Crucible/anything.  Strip Mine does nothing for what Control Slaver wants to do, and that is to activate Mindslaver.  Crucible/Citadel is a nice lock, and Crucible will even help you win some games you shouldn't.  But so does a single Mindslaver activation, almost everytime.  If a hardlock is necesarry, and it never is, you can still achieve this with the Bus.  He also does many things better than Crucible.  He puts Stax on a serious clock.  He blocks fishes shenanigans all day.  He is permanent advantage.  The list goes on.  When you run things like Strip Mine, you have to take out cards like Mana Vault.  I think you have heard the concensus on that.

Also, I feel a bounce spell is very necessary.  Right now the spot belongs to Echoing Truth, as it will pretty much hit any hate thrown your way.

[SiegeX]

What do you guys think of Electrolyze as a drop in replacement for Fire/Ice in the SB?  Is the extra U worth drawing a card all the time or would you rather have the option of always paying 2 mana to do one or the other?

[MoxMonkey]

Pentavus should be main again over My Crucible of Worlds.  He is big and does infinte lock when needed.

Me cutting Vault was My metagame Call due to walking aroudn waterbury and seeing Fish and Stax EVERYWHERE.  I hate Vault when every matchup I was looking at and this was about 60 people I saw had Rods in their Deck.  I might put it back I am not too sure yet.

Electrolyzse cost 3 Mana to try and deal with something.  That extra mana means an Extra turn of beats.  It is a very strong card but I'm not sure if it is better than Old Man of the Sea or Fire/Ice.

[Akuma]

Mana Vault is retarded in Slaver; if winning is your objective cutting it actually isn't even an option.

I think a sweeping statement like this is a bit much regarding Mana Vault. I know forcefieldyou has performed well playing Control Slaver, but is there no room to question the inclusion of Mana Vault? As far as I'm concerned Mana Vault can be placed under the "metagame" slots of a Slaver list, and not one of the "core" cards. I playtest a good amount, and would probably play at more tournaments if there was such a thing here in the Southern California, and Mana Vault has been "bad" in more occasions than it has been good. Is it a win-more card? I think it's one-shot nature is garbage by the way...

Mana Vault does cost 1, and gets around Chalice for 0. That's not really a good arguement. I'm playing Control Slaver, I'm really not too concerned with Chalice for 0, as opposed to Chalice at 1. Besides, most of you are running Gorilla Shaman aside from Welders. (Keep in mind, this is relative. I'm not saying that a Chalice for 0 is irrelevant, I'm saying that a Chalice for 1 is a much greater problem.)

Ugo Rivard, who has won 2 SCG tournaments playing Control Slaver, has opted not to use Mana Vault. Why?

[Komatteru]

Ugo Rivard, who has won 2 SCG tournaments playing Control Slaver, has opted not to use Mana Vault. Why?

Because he likes bad cards like Mana Leak and Platinum Angel.  Also, he apparently doesn't think Gorilla Shaman beats like half the decks in the format, which it does.  I know I never pass up an opportunity to use Gorilla Shaman and say "Nice board, barn" or "Nice Welder, chump."

[dicemanx]

Ugo Rivard, who has won 2 SCG tournaments playing Control Slaver, has opted not to use Mana Vault. Why?

Because he likes bad cards like Mana Leak and Platinum Angel.  Also, he apparently doesn't think Gorilla Shaman beats like half the decks in the format, which it does.  I know I never pass up an opportunity to use Gorilla Shaman and say "Nice board, barn" or "Nice Welder, chump."

Holy inaccurate statements batman. Ugo came prepared to beat the good Fish and Oath decks; Shaman is weak against both decks (in comparison to what else you *could* run), while something like Platz can steal a ridiculous number of games because its far less expected in CS these days. Leaks are also quite good in control mirrors and against fast combo. Were you under the mistaken impression that Ugo won because of solid technical play that offset his "suspect" MD/SB choices?

[Metman]

Vampiric Tutor:  CS is full of bombs ie Ancestral, Yawg, Tinker, Shaman, plus the big artifacts that are essential to dump and weld using Thirst and Welder.  Although I think Vamp is the weakest of the big three I think it is necessary to fill the gaps your opening hand and first couple draws don't fill.

Everything but the shaman can be fetched by Mystical, hence why I assume people are questioning the use of Vamp. Is fetching the shaman really worth losing two life and putting an underground in harms way?
 

Just about any of the bombs in Slaver can be fetched with Mystical except Shaman and the artifacts the decks relies on...that is a fact.  I would run two or three Mysticals if I could be I can't.  I'm not looking to replace Mystical with Vamp, it is an in addition card.  The deck is full of bombs and many one-ofs, I feel that Vamp is very necessary to finding the right cards at the right time.

Mana Vault is retarded in Slaver; if winning is your objective cutting it actually isn't even an option.

Burning Wish is perhaps the best utilitiy card Slaver has: it gives you the option to answer any card in the format; the cost is that it is slow by two Mana. The trade off is two mana to not have to run two or three additional cards in place of better more strealined cards maindeck.

Either choice is acceptable. I just hate drawing dead cards.
Not to mention it is also a huge threat; It gets Tendrils for the win.

Other than the Tendrils and maybe Pyroclasm what else are you running as a B. Wish target?

[God_Campbell]

Other than the Tendrils and maybe Pyroclasm what else are you running as a B. Wish target?

Well personally I run a echoing ruin to deal with annoying artifacts and a deep anal for card draw if I REALLY need it.
As I see it Mana Vault is some good when it shows up, and true it does suck in certain situations it also shines in others, and it is a card I am never unhappy to see when I have a thirst in hand.
So I see it as a personal taste argument, some like the vault some don't.
And as for the bus/COW argument if you are playing in a wasteland heavy metagame then crucible would be my choice but if not then the bus is going to be a better option.

[Flux]

Both Crucible and Pentavus are in the deck for different reasons, and I feel there is no reason not to run both, along with strip mine.  Pentavus destroys fish, in my opinion, along with goblins.  And I know that it is highly unlikely, but you can randomly get stripmine/crucible lock, which is savage, as any type one player should know.  And if I felt that I didn't want to run mana crypt, I would cut a mox pearl before I would cut it completely.  Mana Vault is perfect for the deck and I agree with Demars, it helps do what control slaver was made to do, win.

Flux

[Metman]

I'm not advocating replacing Pentavus with CoW.  I think they should be played for different reasons.  What I'm asking is have people played CoW with a lone Strip Mine and if so how has it been in the deck?  Although it's not CS goal to completely shut down the mana resources of the oppenent I think that the random "hey there's a CoW in my grave" and "what do ya know I've got Strip Mine too" can be savage random lock down.  Plus neither card is dead when you run fetchlands and a heavy Wasteland meta.  Also, Strip Mine is never a waste to see in the opening/first couple draws. 

[forests failed you]

Other than the Tendrils and maybe Pyroclasm what else are you running as a B. Wish target?

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Echoing Ruin
1 Deep Analysis

[SiegeX]

Is it just me or does CoW and Titan have alot of synergy? I think if you are going to run CoW, Titan should at least be one of your two fatties.  Even if you have to nuke islands with titan, who cares as long as you have CoW out.

[pyr0ma5ta]

Is rolling earthquake better than pyroclasm?

CoW is amazing in my meta (strongly oath and stax).  And even just being able to fetch twice more than you would have been able to is good times.  I'm not sure how good Strip Mine is, since it disrupts my mana base too much.  I'm currently running 4 Islands in my wasteland heavy meta, and I'm not sure if I want to drop 1.  I'm not running Library either so I don't have a good colorless source to cut.  Suggestions?  Is the strip mine even worth it?

[Quality_Bear]

Would there be any advantages in running a u/r version of slaver? Clearly you would lose card quality without tutor/s, and miss out on darkblast, but you would on the other hand have a more stable manabase, and perhaps be able to open up other doors. Thoughts?

[cophos]

You´d loose Will. So: no way.

[The Atog Lord]

Would there be any advantages in running a u/r version of slaver? Clearly you would lose card quality without tutor/s, and miss out on darkblast, but you would on the other hand have a more stable manabase, and perhaps be able to open up other doors. Thoughts?

In response, please allow me to quote myself from February of last year, from the TMD discussion of my article on why Intuition/AK doesn't belong in Slaver.

Yawgmoth's Will increases my match against everything. Even against a deck like Stax, which can Waste the two to three Underground Seas that I play, and which can temporarily nullify Will with Trinisphere, I love what Black does for the deck. As for the Wastelands, remember that I play a hefty 26 mana sources. Goblin Welder can very often get rid of Trinisphere, and post board, Rack and Ruin can clear the way for Yawgmoth. You only need one Trisphere-free turn to end the game with Will.

Against a deck like Stax, or any sort of deck, Yawgmoth's Will allows Control Slaver to come back from nowhere. I have gone countless times from two lands and nothing in my hand to having a complete lock. I play Control Slaver as though the deck were based on Yawgmoth's Will. I would sooner cut Ancestral Recall than Yawgmoth's Will.

[Eandori]

Lots of what I'm going to state has already been stated by some others in one form or another.  So some things I'm just backing up what others have said, but I have a few comments of my own in here

I absolutely choose Vampiric Tutor over Mystical, IF that is the comparison.  Why?  Because slaver lock requires key components, and Vampiric can get everything mystical can, AND it can get a key lock card.  Yes I have absolutely played many games were a Vampiric tutor for Mindslaver, crucible, citadel, welder, or pentavus resulted in a slaver lock for the win.  Here's a second huge reason for Vampiric.  My deck list is VERY versitile.  I have tools to deal with everything and many different options I can choose to attack my opponent with.  If I cast Mystical, I give away my game plan.  Vampiric keeps my opponent guessing.

About Pentavus Vs. Crucible, yes they are both methods of slaver lock.  But that's a GOOD thing.  Crucible also fixes my mana, gives card advantage (searchlands), lets me shuffle my deck every turn (Brainstorm, searchland), lets me play mana denial if I choose (strip mine), and makes my Thirst for Knowledge, Gifts Ungiven, and Fact or Fiction all more powerfull because I don't care about discarding lands. 

Pentavus, just like others said, is a bomb against fish, goblins, stax, insane with Tolarian, and gives me a very solid defensive creature, and win condition.  You can make him big enough to bock and kill a Sundering Titan/DSC, you can attack/block and move pentavites on/off at instant speed, and if I have mana open, I have a very hard to stop win condition since I can remove pentavites in response to disenchant, rack&ruin, etc.

I like 2 mindslavers for a few reasons.  If I have a slaver in the yard, all I probably need is an active welder and 4 mana with 1 artifact and the chances are huge I will win.  With 2 slavers my chances of drawing one are twice as high.  Also, if I cast a gifts ungiven and have a slaver in in hand or in the yard, it can still be hard to activate with no welder or small mana.  BUT I still can draw a tinker and get a slaver out that way.  Also, if I have to burn an early yawgmoth's will, I can activate a slaver later during that Yawg's will turn and still have the ability to slaver lock later because I have another silver bullet in the deck.  Again, this goes back to one of my very original reasons to play this deck, it has many ways to win, and it's very hard to stop by removing even up to 6 cards from the game!

Between Triskelion, and Plat, it's a judgement call based on your meta really.  But DON'T THINK either card is bad, BOTH of those creatures are huge and have huge benefits.  Again, lots of times I will use Platinum Angel as a threat that forces my opponent to change his whole game.  With her on the board, I can go right ahead on my MAIN deck theme... achive slaver lock.  During all the while, my opponent now MUST stop not only the Plat, but my normal theme as well.  Both of those will lead me to a win if they do nothing to stop them BOTH.  So if my opponent empties his hand winning the counter war to remove Plat, and my slaver activates right after, then I still win.

Gorilla Shaman is huge.  Believe me, I have really considered adding him main deck.  But he really does do nothing against many decks out there.  If I REALLY believe that most decks I'll run up against play moxen, etc.  I'll probably put him main deck also.  Totally a meta game call.  I'm not sure about removing a welder though...  Welder has HUGE synergy with the rest of the deck.  It's built around him.  With an active welder on the board, EVERYTHING I DO is FAR more threatening.

About the Snow covered Island, I suppose that's a great idea.  I can't think of a reason NOT to do it.  And it would let me Gifts for 2 islands.  Having said that, I don't think I have ever wanted to gifts for 2 islands.  When I get lands with a Gifts Ungiven, it's usually 4 of these 6 options: Strip Mine, Darksteel Citadel, Flooded Strand, Polluted Delta, Tolarian Academy, and Library of Alexandria.

Good thread guys, keep it up.

[rureddy31]

Ugo Rivard, who has won 2 SCG tournaments playing Control Slaver, has opted not to use Mana Vault. Why?

Because he likes bad cards like Mana Leak and Platinum Angel.  Also, he apparently doesn't think Gorilla Shaman beats like half the decks in the format, which it does.  I know I never pass up an opportunity to use Gorilla Shaman and say "Nice board, barn" or "Nice Welder, chump."

Lol. I love it when people criticize winners. Especially two-time winners. Ugo's deck was excellent, and like diceman said, it was metagamed to beat a fish and Oath meta. What deck did Ugo beat in finals again? Oh, that's right, it was Oath. Your statement about Ugo's deck is like Juggernaught stating that demonic tutor for recall is a bad play. I like Mox Monkey a lot, and I play 2 MD. However, leaks are fine in a certain meta. Also, I notice people running Crucible & Pentavus. How can you do this? I think the Robots should be limited to three. You have to understand, CS is the slowest deck in the format. You need to save room to make sure you control the early game, because if you don't it doesn't matter how many robots you have, you ain't staying alive.