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Author Topic: Shahrazad  (Read 1608 times)
BigMac
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« on: December 27, 2005, 09:49:58 am »

I had an idea and was reading the oracle text for shahrazad and couldn't make head or tails of it.

javascript:WizardsAutoCard('Shahrazad')

Oracle text
Players play a MAGIC subgame, using their libraries as their decks. Each player who doesn't win the subgame loses half his or her life, rounded up. After the subgame, players shuffle all subgame cards they own into their libraries. Players don't ante a card for the subgame, and libraries with less than the required number of cards are legal.

Can anybody explain what happens to the cards you used in the second game and are:
a) in your library
b) in play at the time of your win or loss
c) in your hand
d) in your graveyard
e) removed from game

Next to that i have another questionmark as what will happen if you start the second game and one of the two people concedes right away, without even drawing his cards and the other person would want to do the same. Does this "scooping" stack, or what would happen if a judge were to come upon this fact.

This is a serious question with a possible new deck as outcome. Depending the outcome of this off course.
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Jebus
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« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2005, 12:23:05 pm »

Here are the current rules for subgames.

Quote
506. Subgames

506.1. Some cards allow players to play a Magic subgame. A “subgame� is the game created by the card’s effect. The “main game� is the game in which the spell or ability that created the subgame was played. The main game is suspended while the subgame is in progress. It resumes when the subgame ends.

506.2. Any main-game abilities that trigger while the subgame is in progress aren’t put onto the stack until the subgame is completed.

506.3. To start the subgame, each player removes his or her library from the game face down. It becomes that player’s deck in the subgame. Abilities that trigger on cards being removed from the main game face down will trigger.

506.3a A player’s deck in the subgame may have less than the minimum number of cards. If a player’s deck contains less than seven cards, the player will lose the game as soon as it starts, even if he or she mulligans. (See rule 420, “State-Based Effects.�)

506.4. The subgame proceeds like a normal game. Randomly determine which player goes first.

506.5. All objects in the main game and all cards outside the main game are considered outside the subgame (except those specifically brought into the subgame). All players not currently in the subgame are considered outside the subgame.

506.5a Some effects can bring cards into a game from outside of it. Cards brought into a subgame from a main game are considered to be removed from the main game. Abilities in the main game that trigger on objects being removed from the main game will trigger.

506.6. At the end of a subgame, each player puts all objects he or she owns that were brought into the subgame into his or her library in the main game, then shuffles that library. Cards removed from the game in the subgame are not put into the player’s main-game library. Instead they remain removed from the game in the main game.
Example: If a card was brought into the subgame either from the main game or from outside the main game, that card will be put into its owner’s main-game library when the subgame ends.

506.7. If another subgame is created during a subgame, there can be multiple subgames and main games. Each main game has one subgame, and each subgame has one main game. In this case, some games will be considered both a main game and a subgame at the same time.

506.6 covers your first questions.  All cards are returned to the library for the main game except for those removed from the subgame.  Those remain removed from the game.

If I have two players who are trying to concede at the same time, I'm probably just going to call it a draw.

However, I have to question your motives here.  What exactly do you hope to accomplish?


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BigMac
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« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2005, 04:42:01 am »

the second question was hypothetical. Your gameplan could be to have a planar void in your second game to remove as many of your opponents cards as possible. As most vintage decks have one, maybe two winconditions, this would totally wreck their gameplan. However, scooping would negate the whole gameplan and i was wondering if that was possible or how rules would look upon scooping for that soul reason.
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« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2005, 06:21:04 am »

Wow.  That seems like a rules nightmare.
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Fall-Titan
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2005, 06:01:41 pm »

Lol play black/white and make your goal during the subgame be to cast doomsday lmao. It would f with your opponet
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Godder
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« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2005, 08:09:48 pm »

Funnily enough, not only have these questions been answered in Ask The Judge, they were questions involving Shahrazad Very Happy.

Anyway, Chris Richter's answers are that concession ends the game instantly, similar to Time Stop but without the clean-up step (Tormod's Crypt was the example given in the question - conceding with Crypt's ability on the stack would mean that it doesn't resolve), and that the first player to state that they concede wins... er... loses.

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/9479.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/9463.html

Bottom question on the page in both cases.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2005, 05:27:18 pm by Godder » Logged

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BigMac
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2005, 05:29:50 am »

I will be working on the deck and it would be nice to see how many people actually use this ability to concede before it even starts.
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