Life from the void

[Guli]

After some doubt I decided to open up a thread about my idea. The new card LOTL from ravinca inspired me a lot. I love the crucible/strip lock in uba or normal stax. But the same result can be archived with a strip mine and Life From The Loam. It is cheaper to play with, LFTL fills your graveyard wich can be used for threshold or flashback or a deadly will. The big downside is that you don't get a draw. My idea was to use LFTL with Nether void and build a deck around it. If the lock can be set up it really is great. Nether void hits and when your opponent does'nt have more then 3 lands and you can strip/waste he will have a hard time getting out of the lock. It is nearly impossible without graveyard tricks or uncounterable effects.

I am going to talk more about my ideas before i post some list or something. In my opinion if you want a nether void to be effective you need to shut down artifact mana or any kind of artifact tricks. There is a cheap way of doing this. Null Rod is such a powerfull card. And it can be played before the void making it logical if you asked me. It serves as a mini void if you look closer. You stop those 9 mana producing artifacts. You stop belcher,slaver,trisk,pentavus,vial,jitte.... i can go on. So there are 2 permanents serving as lock components and 1 sorcery that keeps destroying land. I think it is safe to say these 3 card choices are correct. I am no expert that is why i post here. To learn something about building decks. So please keep that in mind when you comment something. I don't mind criticism at all if it is constructive.

The classic nether void deck is in my opinion slow. It is not explosive unless the void player draw a mox and lotus and a ritual. And i don't want this to be a slow deck. I want to maximize the effectivenes of Null Rod so i am not going to use artifact mana. Instead i thought using green to give me mana. Birds of paradise was the first thing that came ot my mind. I really don't know if it should be added or not. The reason I say this is because the bird is not doing anything to disrupt or hurt your opponent. It is an investement that only pays of if the opponent doesn't kill you in 2 turns. Then i thought about Elvish Spirit Guide. These will not be affected by a void or null rod and they will give me the option of playing a null rod first turn. This is important and it should be THAT fast if this deck wants to have a shot in the current metagame.

I think it is possible to get a void on the table turn 2. If not it will hit the table turn 3. But this will give the void player a hard time aswell. You cant simply play a nether void and expect to win automaticly. And with elvish spirit guide you will only have that 1 green mana that turn. Suppose you drop a void seccond turn with the help of the spirit. next turn you will have 3 lands. Maybe that is the way to go. Filling your deck with treetop village and mishras. Still i think it is too early to make that claim. I rather play a healty void after removing or neutralizing any threats and start pounding away my opponents life and kill his lands so he cant come back in the game. Maybe it is posisble doing this with a lot land in your deck using 4 exploration and 1 Fastbond.

In order to push trough your threats the addition of 4 Duress speaks for himself. Duress is duress i can't think of anything better as a disruptive,control card. I am sure all of us agree on this card choice. What i was really thinking off is additional hand disruption. Since this deck wants to somewhat explosive and there is no real way of drawing cards i thought Chains of Mephistopheles would be nice. However i feel like both duress and chains will not help my matchip against aggro. Actually non of the cards mentioned so far will do anything against a fast deck. Null rod,void,spirit,BOP,duress,chains all are nearly useless against a fast creature deck. Mishras could help out but they will get wasted anyway.

Now i think darkblasts are needed (i dont know how many though). It removes welders, BOP and it helps against weenies. And it has dredge ofcourse. What i fear is how this deck is going to handle a big fat creatures. I thought of diabolic edict. Maybe a single edict would suffice. There is also Pernicious Deed wich i would like to use but considering i have some key cheap permanents planning to put in the deck myself and maybe that is not the way to go. The cheapest card to handle this problem the best way is swords to plowshares. But that is white. But white has some interesting cards aswell. Kataki really sounds nice under a void. It is not a null rod but it man it sure does help out a lot against artifacts. And there is suppression field. This card seriously hurts a lot decks aswell.  But when i playtested it i had a hard time fetching and wasting/stripping myself so it is dangerous. I would like to combine creatures that help me out with a void. Again i looked in the green section and i found Werebear. It works nice with dredge it helps out with void giving me mana... but it is slow and doesnt give me immediate board control. But yea in the classic void deck a shade also starts out as a normal 2-1 but it becomes a monster the next turn.

Pff i am writing and writing on. I am going to put down a list of cards now and maybe you guys could help me with the mana base and card choices.

Lock/Disruption
Nether void : i think 3 is enough
Null rod : in this deck i would go with 4 because your really want this to resolve as fast as possible
Suppression Field : I have my doubts on this one
Chains of Meph : Looks like a great add, i think 2 should be added
Duress: 4 please
Wasteland: 4

Removal
Darkblast : Well it is important to run MD welderremoval but darkblast also kills BOP and ManaElves. Also nice against Savanah Lions kinda creatures (2/1)
Swords to plowshares : i would like to run 1-2 when i need an answers against an early tinker or oath
Diablic edict (or chainer's edict) : If white isn't splashed this is needed imo.
Ray of Revelation : cute flashback

Creatures
Birds of paradise : These will probably be needed if i am going for 2-3 colors.
Elvish spirith guide : definitly 4, i need the free extra mana early turns. Also don't forget this is a creature. It might get hardcasted for 6 if you would need a creature under a void...
Kataki, War's Wage : At first i thought this would be bad with a null rod but it actually has good synergy aswell. All i need to do is pay 1 mana to keep my null rod alive but they can not use their moxes or artifact to keep theirs alive. They need to use lands to do this and that is strong play if you ask me If white would be added this is my strongest 2cc drop creature.
werebear : Maybe, just maybe ... it looks strong once it hits the table but damn i think he might not make it i could be totally wrong though
Tinderwall : i don't think so but it crossed my mind

Tutors
Demonic Tutor : ofcourse
Demonic consultation : yea why not, sometimes risky but this deck runs a lot 4 copies and if u really need a void or rod just go get it
Vampiric and Imperial Seal: i wanna but i don't know, might be important to find your fastbond if explorations are not used. Depends on the deck list
enlightened tutor: hmmm interesting
Living wish: I didn't mention these before but these are important. You will get your strip mine in the SB. Also having acces to your SB gives the deck a variety of solutions. You can get Blurred Mongoose or something or Boseiju, Who Shelters All nulifying the void effect for you. Maybe Boseiju, Who Shelters All should be added MD aswell but it comes into play tapped so that is probably not correct.

Fastbond/Exploration : definitly a 007 but adding exploration will change the deck a lot so i don't wanna make early comments on that one.
Life from the loam : i think 3 is enough


I think that is it. These are my card ideas. It is still in his very early stages so every comment is appreciated. Every card idea is welcome. I hope this thread gets some attention because i can't wait working on this deck.

Thanks

[zeus-online]

.

[Guli]

One of the reasons Null rod is listed as a card is vial. I have to stop that kinda play. I want to play a lock deck with disruption. Unmask would be bad in this deck. I like the idea of the withered definitly. But maybe i could simply use living wish to wish him.

After some thought i think these cards are definitly a must

4 elvish spirit guide
4 birds of paradise
4 null rod
4 wasteland
3 Kataki, War's Wage
4 living wish
3 nether void
3 life from the loam
4 Duress
1 fastbond

SB
1 strip mine
1 dust bowl
1 rishadan port
1 maze of ith
1 Kataki, War's Wage
? withered wretch
? Blurred Mongoose
? Mishra's factory
1 mother of runes
? xantic swarm

I am having trouble with the mana base. How many fetch? How many basic and wich one? Wich duals and how many? I think the mana base should be without errors.

[Manpriest]

     I would immediately add one copy of crop rotation.  Also, what about crucible?  Also, what do you think about bazaar?  Possible in here as a draw engine?

     I would probably need to playtest it with and without exploration before that decision could be made, though leaning toward probably not.

     

[Guli]

Crop rotation and crucible would work wonderfull but are they really needed? With living wish you get strip mine and with 3 life of loams in the deck i don't know if crucible would be overkill or not. A crucible also costs 3 mana and is an artifact. I am ok with null rod and kataki. I would be glad to pay the 1 mana in order to put that kinda pressure on my opponent. Adding crucible would make it very hard to work out in my opinion. And besides i already run a deck with bazaar/crucible/null rod/workshops ... its called uba stax .
I just want to give the card nether void another chance and try to make something else with it than the classic versions. Since crop rotation is only 1 green mana it would work nicely under a void aswell. Acting as a tutor to het a wasteland maybe. I can see crop rotation find a place in this deck idea but crucible would be hard.

[Guli]

Try imagening kataki/null rod/Void on the board and 4-5 lands with a strip mine and life of loam in your graveyard

Not many decks can break that. The cool thing is a kataki is strong on his own and so is null rod. All we got to do is find cards that fit in and have good synergy. Preferable cheap cards like duress/crop rotation/Life from the loam/darkblast so they can be played even if the void hits. I think swords to plowshares is a good idea.

[Fall-Titan]

The beautiful thing about Life is that you only need a single copy and at maximum give it 2 slots in your deck. This is good because you then have the ability of playing crucible of worlds. If your true plan is to lock down the opponents lands, crucible is a must. You say that life is cheaper but in fact it is not. A) You are costing yourself a draw every turn. B) It costs 5 mana a turn underneath a void. Crucible is a 1 time 3 mana and you no longer have to worry about countermagic or having 5 mana open, not to mention you are allowed a draw every turn. I would suggest running 2 of each or a 2/1 combination.

Secondly, fastbond and or exploration is a must because this deck is useless without it. If the opponent has a crucible out himself or a life a 5 mana then essentially both of you are just staying where you are in mana but your opponent is getting to draw every turn. You need to be able to play multiple lands in a turn to keep this deck from stalling out.

Lastly, i think you have to run lotus or dark rituals in here. I realize they are one shot mana but this deck rolls to combo without some sort of turn 1 lock. Null rod is available on turn 1 but you need an ESG in hand as well which will not happen as much as you would like. Dark ritual i believe is your bet bet and it allows a more consistent turn 1 null rod and even the possible turn 1 nether void. Combo automatically loses to nether void, especiallly with their non-inclusion of enchantment removal. And null rod of course buys you 3-4 turns usually which should be enough to lock them down.

I realize combo is not as played as it used to be but even if 10-15% of decks are grimlong etc, you dont want to have an automatic loss to those decks. Also the turn 1 nether void hoses fish as well leaving some builds with only mishras factory to win with. (Yes i know they can FoW but im disregarding that for the sake of this argument)

Also be sure to have a treetop village or some type of man land in the board for wish to retrieve. I also think that Root Maze is definately worth looking at for the sideboard or maindeck. It gives you temporary null rods 5-8 and that might be necessary since u say null rod is essential to winning

[Guli]

The beautiful thing about Life is that you only need a single copy and at maximum give it 2 slots in your deck. This is good because you then have the ability of playing crucible of worlds. If your true plan is to lock down the opponents lands, crucible is a must. You say that life is cheaper but in fact it is not. A) You are costing yourself a draw every turn. B) It costs 5 mana a turn underneath a void. Crucible is a 1 time 3 mana and you no longer have to worry about countermagic or having 5 mana open, not to mention you are allowed a draw every turn. I would suggest running 2 of each or a 2/1 combination.

Yes, very true. A crucible is in fact BETTER than a loam if it should hit the table. But don't you think it is possible building this deck in a way that it doesn't matter anymore that i draw or not? I know this sounds crazy but. When i wish for my strip and there is a loam in my graveard or my hand it seriously means trouble for the opponent and if he can not find an answer soon. Hmmm i will try to explain otherwise. From my experience once i got the loam/strip going my opponents are screwd so much mana wise that its like playing 2 time walks sometimes. And don't forget null rod it is a serious threat to their mana base. It happened a lot that they don't even play a land(or just cant because they dont have any left in hand). Then i can simply draw. I will only loam when i need to. And wether i draw or not they can not play any spells anymore. Null rod + loam them to 1 land is also a small lock because they can not play anything anymore that costs more then 1 or 0. And the cards thgat cost 0 are simply shit down by Rod. You know what i was thinking of? Playing with workshops. I can play crucibles with it and null rods. But then the white splash has to go. I could run other interesting artifacts then. Like trinisphere. But i somehow do not want to go that direction. Maybe i still havent given a good argument not to add crucible. But i think every single card should be either CHEAP and STILL playable under a void or completely unaffected by a void. Dark rituals are a must in mono black voids even if the rituals becomes dead once the void hits. So maybe i should work with workshops.

Secondly, fastbond and or exploration is a must because this deck is useless without it. If the opponent has a crucible out himself or a life a 5 mana then essentially both of you are just staying where you are in mana but your opponent is getting to draw every turn. You need to be able to play multiple lands in a turn to keep this deck from stalling out.

Yes agree, i should be running something against crucible aswell. Maybe the cheap Oxidize is an option? Or at least in sideboard. And yea fastbond is so broken in this deck. It is restricted though. There are 4 tutors to get the card at my disposal. Enlightened,demonic,imperial seal and vampiric tutor. Is exploration still needed in your opinion?

Lastly, i think you have to run lotus or dark rituals in here. I realize they are one shot mana but this deck rolls to combo without some sort of turn 1 lock. Null rod is available on turn 1 but you need an ESG in hand as well which will not happen as much as you would like. Dark ritual i believe is your bet bet and it allows a more consistent turn 1 null rod and even the possible turn 1 nether void. Combo automatically loses to nether void, especiallly with their non-inclusion of enchantment removal. And null rod of course buys you 3-4 turns usually which should be enough to lock them down.

I havent posted a mana base yet. Lotus is auto for me in every deck. Even with 4 null rod. But i rather use workshops instead rituals to cast those crucibles and null rods. Maybe siding some warbeasts is not a bad idea. Even under a void i only need 4 lands to get him in play.

I realize combo is not as played as it used to be but even if 10-15% of decks are grimlong etc, you dont want to have an automatic loss to those decks. Also the turn 1 nether void hoses fish as well leaving some builds with only mishras factory to win with. (Yes i know they can FoW but im disregarding that for the sake of this argument)

Also be sure to have a treetop village or some type of man land in the board for wish to retrieve. I also think that Root Maze is definately worth looking at for the sideboard or maindeck. It gives you temporary null rods 5-8 and that might be necessary since u say null rod is essential to winning

I have duress, null rod and nether void i think the matchup against combo should be ok with a decent opening hand. And root maze is indeed very interesting but i lack the explerience with that card. What effect will it have you think?

[Fall-Titan]

Unless you are playing your win condition as ichorids, you need to draw cards to find a kill spell. Your lock, while good, is the focus of the deck right now and i would see you mulliganing to find that lock rather than mulliganing to find a kill. Therefore if your lock is the intent of the deck as it should be, you need to be able to find a kill spell after you are no longer drawing cards. Mishras workshop is good. But you cannot run a card that is strictly for artifacts in a deck where less than 40-50% of the cards are artifacts. It is uselss to cast a void, a bird, loam, kataki, ESG, Living wish, and duress.
If you add workshops, your better just playing stax and i think after some testing you will realize your better just playing stax in the first place but who knows. Of course if your building on a semi-budget in a 5-10 proxy tourney this is better with the only hard to get cards being voids. I say you take out white altogether and build this either with the graveyard as your toolbox or land still style. Otherwise it is just too slow and too inconsistent to be even semi-viable as a deck.

So in my opinion your options are

Green/Black Bazaar Dredge
Green/Black Bazaar Madness - seems much weaker but psychotic haze does deal witht he aggro matchup
Green/Black Land Lock

The 2 best of those are as follows

Green/Black Land lock
This deck would utilize the free costs of man lands obviously and their interaction with nether void and null rod. Crucible is essential in this deck but you also recieve aid from sidboard cards like Pernacious Deed and rootmaze which slow down aggro. The deck must have a goal of a turn 1 nether void or null rod, with the backup plan of turn 1 duress and in the best case scenario, duress followed byu null rod or void. Life from the loam becomes a 1 of or at most 2 of and crucible becomes a 2 or 3 of. The strip lock is still in the deck and fastbond becomes broken with 8-12 man lands in the deck. Cards like Chains become available to try out as well since the deck relys less on drawing. Tutors and crop rotation are a must.

Green/Black Bazaar Dredge
In this version you have access to a pretty good draw engine in bazaar- life from the loam. Your kill comes out of your graveyard in the form of Ichorid and even Akuta, Born of Ash, who in my personal opinion is better than Ich in here due to its larger butt and the fact that it can stay in play as well as the fact that it uses a resource which is much easier to recover in the form of a swamp. The downside is that you must have more hards in hand than an opponent and with void on the table that is a hard task to accomplish so if she is chosen as a kill that factor must be dealt with. Ichorid on the other is also good because removing black creatures from the game is good when you have Living wish in hand as ist acts like a regrowth. Root maze is out of the picture here as your kill spells coming into play tapped hurts, like ich. You do have access to darkblast which improves alot of your matchups. In this scenario you would use 2-3 lifes and maybe 1 crucible.

In my opinon those are the only 2 ways to be able to run a lock deck, using nether void and null rod. Any other options are too slow and too fragile.

[Manpriest]

Re: Root Maze


It seems that this card would be just a touch too anti-synergistic (sp?) with this type of deck.  I understand that you should be able to one-up them as far as your strip lock goes, but it still keeps you tapped down for a turn when you're behind on the first land count.  Just seems like there are probably better options.

[Fall-Titan]

Root maze appears to slow you down a turn but with fastbond in play ir doesnt and under a void it really doesnt, the benefits from root maze are not outstanding and i simply meant to say that it is an option against combo decks from the board. If combo is heavy in ones meta game then root maze seems to be null rods 5-8 and easier to cast turn 1. In no case would i run it main unless i knew that 50% or more of the meta was combo.

[Manpriest]

Misunderstood then, my apologies.

[zeus-online]

.

[Guli]

I think against that many control/counters i don't have to worry that much at all. Is he going to keep countering my loam?

I don't need unmask i need several cheap threats and  he can not counter them all. And if 1 slips through it will help me to get the void in aswell. And i can side Xantic Swarm and wish for it if needed...


I would like say something about uba stax with crop rotation and fastbond. There are not tutors there. I guess im trying to do the same thing with the fastbond. But with my idea we have access to the BEST tutors in the game while uba stax is using bazar to find his cards. I am wondering what is the better way to go:
4 tutors and 1 fastbond, 4 exploration and 1 fastbond or tutors fastbond + exploration... I think if i do not use tutors i should go play my uba stax because it is simply stronger. I don't think using 4 exploration and 1 fastbond is that good. I think i should use the tutors. And when i do use them is exploration needed any longer? I am going to test the version with exploration first

1 demonic tutor
1 demonic consultation
1 fastbond
2 life from the loam
3 nether void
4 null rod
4 crucible of worlds
4 exploration
4 living wish : strip mine, rishadan port, dust bowl, blurred mongoose, phyrexian war beast,treetop village,mishra's factory, duplicant!,...
4 wasteland
4 Duress
4 chalice of the void

1 black lotus
2 forest
2 swamp
3 mishra's workshop
4 bayou
4 elvish spirit guide
4 Birds of paradise
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Windswept Heath

What ya think?

[Crankster]

He really only needs to counter once and then win, you need to make surer that doesn't happen.

[Chamelet]

Man, you should check the old Nether Void lists.
If you're playing 3 Voids, you really need a deck that works under it.
And by doing that, you need cheap spells.
That said, things like Duplicant are terrible, since you have to pay 9 mana to it. And since you're replaying a land everyturn, you will take a lot of time to do that.

2nd: if your opponents play first, your mana denial strategy is gone. And since this is the only strategy your deck has, your pretty much done.
Again: spending 5 mana every turn with LftL is not smart. Crucible is MUCH better than that. Really. I know you like Loam and won't give up that idea that soon, but it's really not that great.
Get rid of useless exploration and put some Kegs in, so you can take moxen out.
another important thing: you NEED a deck with cheap spells and your playing 4 CotV. What does that mean? Think about it.
Why not moxen at all? Because of Null Rod?! The hell with that! Play at least G and B moxen and Lotus Petal.
last thing: Your kill condition is Living Wish?! Mishra's Factory hello!
(I guess you meant Factory instead of Workshps right?)

[Guli]

4 crucible is too muc i should make that 3 cotw and 1 crop rotation.

this deck can land lock you turn 1 - turn 2

duplicant is just a SB card i 'COULD' wish it was not that serious.

I want this deck to focus mainly on locking down an opponent. it is still raw and needs to be sharpened.

the workshops are in there to maximize my chances to play a turn 1 Rod/chalice/cotw
1black lotus/3workshop, 5 explorations (1 is bond ofcourse),4 ESG chances are pretty good i can get the lock pretty fast.

ELVISH SPIRIT GUIDE is basicly lotuis petal that doesn't get affected by null rod or void

-1 Crucible of the worlds
+1 Crop rotation
-4 BOP
+4 Werebear


1 demonic tutor
1 demonic consultation
1 fastbond
1 crop rotation
2 life from the loam
3 nether void
4 null rod
3 crucible of worlds
4 exploration
4 living wish : SIDEBOARD NEEDS SOME THOUGHT
4 wasteland
4 Duress
4 chalice of the void


4 WereBear
1 black lotus
2 forest
2 swamp
3 mishra's workshop
4 bayou
4 elvish spirit guide
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Windswept Heath

[Guli]

How would winter orb work out in this deck? I don't feel confortable with chalice cause i have a lot 1-2 mana spells. Maybe winstead of chalice i should play winter orbs.