Graveyard stacking during the Combat Damage Step

[cssamerican]

Ok, this is the first time this have ever come up for me. I thought I would win but I wasn't sure enough to argue it out, plus shortly after this his MWS client must have crashed because we got disconnected. I suppose what I am asking for is a detailed explanation of how this plays out for next time it comes up. That is if I am even right about the outcome:)

I have Birds of Paradise, Volrath's Shapeshifter and Survival of the Fittest in play and the top card in my graveyard is Phyrexian Dreadnought. My opponent has Razia, Boros Archangel in play. I declare my attack with Volrath's Shapeshifter and he declares he is blocking with Razia, Boros Archangel. When damage goes on the stack I use Survival of the Fittest to make the top card of my graveyard Phage the Untouchable. My opponent then tapped Razia, Boros Archangel to deflect 3 points of damage to my bird. Now my question is would Phage be covered up by the bird before it triggers the player loses the game clause?

[Toad]

Nine points of Trample damage go on the stack. Razia turns these into 6 on the player and 3 on the BoP. Upon resolution of combat damage, Phage triggers, then we check SBE. Birds dies, Shapeshifter dies. Phage goes on the stack, and player dies upon resolution of the trigger.

[vartemis]

Nine points of Trample damage go on the stack. Razia turns these into 6 on the player and 3 on the BoP. Upon resolution of combat damage, Phage triggers, then we check SBE. Birds dies, Shapeshifter dies. Phage goes on the stack, and player dies upon resolution of the trigger.

I understand how this works regarding phage, but I just want to clarify something, as I might have played the situation wrong in my head.  This is how I would have thought (end result the same regarding phage) it worked:

12 trample damage is assigned to the angel.  3 is redirected to the BOP. That now leaves 9 points of trample damage going over to the opponent.  then the rest is as you said.  The main thing I am confused of is trample damage regarding protection/redirection.  At what point does the damage get assigned to the player?  Can you assign 9 damage to the player, and let Razia survive, or do you have to reassign 3 more damage on her since the first 3 didnt kill her?  I know that if I attack with a 12/12 trampler and my opponent blocks with a colossus, I can assign 1 point of damage to my opponent, even though the blocker isnt destroyed because it was targeted to the creature's full toughness with damage. Is Razia different because her ability must take place during damage asignment?  SO you assign 3 to her and float 9 (tentitive to the opponent), and since the original 3 is redirected you must reassign 3 more to her because damage was never actually assigned to her because it was retargeted?  If the 1 point of damage was prevented on the colossus in the previous example, would the remaining point not trample over anymore because there is still one more damage spot available?

The main reason why I am asking this is if your oppenent is at 9 or less life, and phage is not an option, can you kill them with this swing? Do you understand what I am asking?  Please say yes hehehe.

j

[Toad]

You have to assign damage to the blocking creatures equal to at least their current thoughtness. Protection or redirection effects are not taken into account here.

Also, Razia's ability happens during damage resolution. Instead of taking 3 damages, these go to another creature. This is actually the reason why It's Phage that deals damage, and not the Bird.

[vartemis]

You have to assign damage to the blocking creatures equal to at least their current thoughtness. Protection or redirection effects are not taken into account here.

Also, Razia's ability happens during damage resolution. Instead of taking 3 damages, these go to another creature. This is actually the reason why It's Phage that deals damage, and not the Bird.

So I attack with the shapeshifter, and during damage resolution, the first 3 gets reassigned, so I must assign another 3 to her because she was never actually assigned damage in the first place, leaving 6 to trample over during resolution?  Am I understanding you correctly?

j

[Limbo]

That is indeed a wrong interpretation.

This should clear all confusion:

#  502.9b - The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. If all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among the blocking creatures and the defending player. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already on the creature and damage from other creatures that will be assigned at the same time (see Rule 502.9e). The controller need not assign lethal damage to all blocking creatures but in that case can't assign any damage to the defending player. [CompRules 2005/10/01]

[cssamerican]

Thanks guys, that is what I thought would happen. I just wasn't sure exactly how Razia's ability worked but this cleared it up for me:

Also, Razia's ability happens during damage resolution. Instead of taking 3 damages, these go to another creature. This is actually the reason why It's Phage that deals damage, and not the Bird.

[pyr0ma5ta]

Why didn't he just turn Razia's damage at your face?  The game would be a draw, right?

[Cross]

Because that's not how Razia works.

[Gabethebabe]

Why didn't he just turn Razia's damage at your face?  The game would be a draw, right?

As Cross said: you didn´t read the card.

But you made another error. Suppose you manage to redirect part of phage´s combat damage to the owner of Phage, the game would not be a draw.

After combat damage resolves two triggered Phage abilities would go on the stack, and the controller of Phage can decide the order. He´ll make the opponent lose first.

[pyr0ma5ta]

I apologise.  Razia doesn't go to the dome.  However, if it could, it would be APNAP stacking, actually, and phage's owner would lose first!

[Jebus]

I apologise.  Razia doesn't go to the dome.  However, if it could, it would be APNAP stacking, actually, and phage's owner would lose first!

No, it wouldn't be APNAP, since the same guy would control both triggers.  Gabethebabe was correct.