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Author Topic: Mono R Sligh  (Read 2192 times)
Duncan
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« on: January 28, 2006, 04:34:36 pm »

Mono R Sligh

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Goblin Vandal
2 Gorilla Shaman
4 Jackal Pup
4 Mogg Fanatic

3 Blood Moon

4 Chain Lightning
3 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
3 Pyroblast

3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
8 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Rack and Ruin
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
3 Red Elemental Blast


This is the latest version of the Mono R Sligh deck I am developing for my meta with oath, TPS, gifts, stax and fish (almost every deck is played at least once). I have tuned it a bit to have a good game against powered decks, because i see them a lot around here. Basically the plan is to disrupt your opponents mana base while beating him with little guys like sligh is made for.

I play only 19 lands in the deck of which 6 of them are fetch. I think I don't need any more, because almost every spell can be casted with 1/2 lands out. The 6 fetch are added to optimize your draws by filtering land and to (ab)use with Top. That brings me to my next point: Sensei's Divining Top. The card itself is amazing in almost any deck and i think it fits perfectly in sligh. Without any draw getting the choice of 3 cards every turn is very useful and you can just pick whatever you need: Creaturehate/disruption. It just lets you get your chalices and post sideboarding cards much quicker. It also works as a way to prevent manascrew.

Most of the deck seems pretty logical to me. Vandal takes care of moxen, jittes, vials, stax-lock elements etc. Monkey eats moxen and chalice for 1. I've added 3 Blood Moon and 4 Price of Progress, because decks are running more and more nonbasics these days. And the 3 Pyroblast are in there because almost every deck plays blue  Smile

There are some cards whether i'm not sure to add them or not:

Wheel of Fortune - The card itself is great, 3 mana and a whole new hand full of burn and creatures. But giving your opponent als 7 new cards and the fact that you probably won't be able to use your hand until your next turn seems very week to me.

Incinerate - This would be instead of Chain Lightning then. Is an instant instead of a sorcery and has a cc of 2, which is both an advantage and a disadvantage. It makes your deck less vulnerable to chalice set at 1 but also slower. I don't know about this one.

REBs - Right now i play 3 of them, but i don't know if this is the right number. Sometimes it's weak, sometimes it's great, but you need it against some decks to stand a chance in game 1.


The sideboard is not finished. I need to put something in against oath, I was thinking about Goblin Bombardment, but i don't know what to take out. I guess pithing needle is the weakest card, but maybe i should run that one maindeck.. I'm also not sure about Tormod's Crypt. It isn't very good combined with chalice..  Null Rod might be an option but i think that is overkill against artifacts. Viashino Heretic is worth some thinking and Shattering Spree too.

I hope to hear some advice and comment on this deck.
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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2006, 04:54:29 pm »

I would add a few Shattering Spree to the maindeck since you flat out lose to Chalice=1.  I also think Blood Moon is terrible since it costs 3 mana.
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2006, 05:53:30 pm »

Shattering Spree is indeed what will make your deck not simply die to any other deck with Chalices, and if I read your list correctly, you would only ever set Chalice to 0 for their moxes (unless you somehow get to 4 mana to set Chalice at 2.

Since you wont always go first, and you wont always have Chalice in your oppening hand, would Shattering Spree be a better replacement for Chalice in general?  It a) eliminates their Chalice for 1 (which they will do) and b) eliminates their moxen).

Perhaps Null Rod would be a better piece of disruption.  I understand that you want to use Top, but say, splashing green for Sylvan Library might be a better idea.
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Duncan
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« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2006, 06:02:43 am »

Isn't Shattering Spree countered bij chalice for 1? Does the replicate cost changes its converted mana cost then?
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« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2006, 11:24:35 am »

Isn't Shattering Spree countered bij chalice for 1? Does the replicate cost changes its converted mana cost then?

No. When you play the shattering spree, it has a CC of 1. You may pay R and an additional R. This will trigger both chalice (on the stack first) and the replicate. When replicate resolves, it places another copy of spree on the stack. Since this is not played it does not trigger chalice. The copy resolves, destroys the chalice, then the chalice trigger resolves and counters the original spree.

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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2006, 12:31:32 pm »

I would really consider Viashino Heretic against stax, since if they have dup, they have answers, if they don't, they lose.

Also, I'd probably Null Rod over the Blood Moons, because they come out a turn earlier and don't lose you the game when they get Mana Drained.  Is there any reason you're not running Mox Ruby and Lotus, other than possible budget concerns?

Shattering Spree is some good.  Your deck is one that can actually abuse it, and you can even push it through your own chalices.  Neat.

As far as Oath goes, I think the plan is to win as fast as possible.  I'd consider Blood Moons in the side against Oath, because it's good times if it resolves, and Oath doesn't play Drain (mostly).
« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 12:34:34 pm by pyr0ma5ta » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2006, 09:13:38 pm »

-4 mog fanatics
+ 2 gorilla shamen
+ 2 lava darts
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« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2006, 09:59:04 pm »

If you add mox/lotus and keep the chalices in (big 'if') you might also consider shrapnel blast over chain.  Just a thought.
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« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2006, 10:45:28 pm »

If you add mox/lotus and keep the chalices in (big 'if') you might also consider shrapnel blast over chain. Just a thought.
Why add Shrapnel Blast when you would only have 7 artifacts to sacrifice (4 Chalice, 1 Mox, 2 Top), Lotus would be a horrible artifact to sacrifice, because you lose too much.  The Chains are superior to Shrapnel Blast in this case because of the lack of artifacts.  In my opinion it seems like a very subpar choice.
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2006, 12:23:22 am »

Heres some tech, play Fractured Loyalty for Darksteel Colossus and you can target it with any spell from Bolt to even Pyroblast (YES IT WORKS).

Shattering Spree would actually give some sort of red deck a glimpse of hope.
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2006, 11:29:49 pm »

Heres some tech, play Fractured Loyalty for Darksteel Colossus and you can target it with any spell from Bolt to even Pyroblast (YES IT WORKS).

Shattering Spree would actually give some sort of red deck a glimpse of hope.
Fractured Loyalty seems like another very subpar choice in my opinion.  Most of the decks that run Darksteel Colossus run counterspells which means after playing against you for a few turns then reading the card they would most likely counter it.  Also, Tinker does not always come down on turn 1 so that  you can enchant it, more often then not its going to be a dead card in your hand you wish were a burn spell or another creature.

Clarify the Pyroblast scenario, Pyroblast works because it says "destroy target permanent IF its blue" meaning you can target anything and if it is not blue upon resolving then it fizzles.  This is not true for Red Elemental Blast as that read "destroy target blue permanent" just another small issue.

I personally do not see how Shattering Spree would give a red deck hope.  The only deck that is dependant on artifacts is Stax as others can just hold on to a mox and then drop it and use Goblin Welder over and over.  Also where it is not a problem in this deck, in other decks it is very hard to achieve a great amount of red mana to abuse shattering spree, so it just becomes a more costly Rack and Ruin in a sort of way.
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« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 03:16:31 pm »

you might want to look at genju of spires as well.  If you have the board dominace you can clock them to 3 turns when you drop it (thats asumeing you havent delt any other dmg).  Against heavy counterspell and dicard decks (basically anything running underground sea).  you might have trouble holding handsize and therefore have a very slow clock, genju can speed that process up.  There are few subtle tech's when useing genju of spires
#1 you can enchant it on a land that has been in play, and it will not have summoning sickness ... so in essence it is 100% better than a card like ball lightning (3 mana for a 6/1 hasted creature w/o the sac at end of turn clause).
#2 you can use it to destroy your opponents mountians (this is espically tech if your running blood moon.  basically you drop in on an opponents land, animate it, bolt it, and return genju to your hand.  this works because the animate ability is still under your control... so it makes cards like lava dart and mog fanatic count as Land destruction cards wich is hot.  It is a very mana heavy situation but a late game option if your opponent is scrambling for colored mana.  but if you've got nothing better to do (ie you've spent your hand) then it can be game turning.
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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2006, 11:41:10 am »

Mono R Sligh v1.2

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Goblin Vandal
2 Gorilla Shaman
4 Jackal Pup
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Blood Moon
3 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
8 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Chain Lightning

Sideboard:
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Rack and Ruin
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Claws of Gix
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Blood Moon

This is my newer version of the deck now i've done some more testing. I moved one blood moon from the main to the side because of its higher cc and it isn't always useful. I added an extra red blast in the main. I also changed the sideboard a bit. I've added Claws of Gix for the Oath matchup; right now im looking if it's better than Goblin Bombardment or not. It comes down earlier, but it is also stopped by my own chalices, i problem i also see with tormod's crypt.

Some things i want to look closer at:
- Gorilla Shaman/Goblin Vandal: 2/4 or 3/3.
- Is Null Rod better than Chalice in this deck?

The matchups are as follows: Stax is a good one, unless they go real broken, Fish is relatively easy and combo can be done too. The decks i'm having trouble with are oath (although i win a lot against it, i think it's more luck). Maybe it gets better with Claws in the Sb. And Colossus is a real problem, i might add Viashino Heretic..
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2006, 01:44:18 pm »

Goblin Bombardment inflicting with Chalices is a non-issue as Oath plays Chalices too. They can set a chalice to 0 and not to 2. And when you have a Chalice for 2 out, who cares about a Claws of Gix, Goblin Bombardment or Spawning Pit?!
Bombardment is also an Enchantment which is harder to kill. If you compare the effects provided by both cards, one has to conclude Bombardment is strictly better.

If 2 mana is a problem for your deck (which shouldn't be all that hard especially vs. Oath), then Claws of Gix would be better. If it's not, I advocate on playing Bombardment strongly.

How can one tell wether 4/2 or 3/3 (Shaman/Vandal) is better? I think you can only draw such conclusion by testing lots and lots and lots.

Null Rod > Chalice if you are not running Vials and Jittes if you ask me.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 01:48:25 pm by Mantis » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2006, 06:11:10 pm »

Some things i want to look closer at:
- Gorilla Shaman/Goblin Vandal: 2/4 or 3/3.
- Is Null Rod better than Chalice in this deck?

The question about Null Rod versus Chalice: In my own opinion, I think the choice greatly depends on your meta.  If your meta happens to consist of lots of combo and oath, then I think Chalice would be the correct decision since both decks have to find a way usually to deal with it before they can win.  If your meta happens to consist of more control, tier 1 decks (Gifts, Slaver, Staxs) then I think Null Rod is the better choice as those decks are vastly spread out mana cost wise and are more reliant on artifacts then others and they can find a easy way to get rid of chalice.

Gorilla Shaman versus Goblin Vandal: I would like to have a 3/3 configuration opposed to a 2/4 because Goblin Vandal is highly situational, a Goblin Welder could block, damage on the stack weld something out so you lose your main artifact-killer and they lose a Welder.  Gorilla Shaman also has the benefit of just being stupidly ridiculous by destroying multiple moxens for next to nothing.  The Vandals also can end up trading with Gorilla Shamans because an increasing amount of people are starting to play the Gorillas and those don't need to attack to do their duty.  It greatly depends on what you like and by testing.
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