BGW Deck (Yes, you read right)

[lordmayhem]

So I've been messing around with this deck for ages now (I posted it before as Black Metal, a B/W build) and I just recently added a green splash for Chokes and Regrowth and decided that Living Wish would be awesome too.

My meta is a bunch of 3cc, sligh, goblins, and oath.

Before I continue, the list:

IdontplayIslands.dec

// Manas

4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
4 Bayou
4 Wasteland
1 Swamp
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

// Menz

4 Phyrexian Negator
3 Exalted Angel

// Disruptions

4 Duress
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Choke

// Tutoring and whatnot

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Living Wish

// Brokez

1 Regrowth
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Balance
1 Crucible of Worlds

// Non-Necro, non-loa Draw

3 Night's Whisper

// Removal

3x ???

The removal slot is questionable at the moment. I'm testing 1 Seal of Cleansing, 1 Vindicate and 1 StP, though I very well may go to 3 Seals or 2 Seals and 1 Explosives or 2 Stp, 1 Seal. Since the majority of the meta is 3cc, Phyrexian Negator is there to deliver quick beats. Maindeck Choke (since like 90% of my meta is blue-based) is also designed to provide additional mana disruption since their lands are all Islands, should I go to three instead for consistency? Goblins has Engineered Plague in the side.

Chalice was originally a 4-of, and I might just go back to 4, probably dropping Angel #3 for it. Ever since I read the Road-Block article, I just couldn't help loving Chalice. Its really damn good.

If I had to come up with a matchup analysis, I would say that this does well against blue-based control decks and does decently versus Oath, but I'm looking to improve it in any way.

Anyway, seeing as I just splashed Green, I have no idea what else I could add (or perhaps remove?). I also would like some opinions or ideas for construction of a wish board of sorts. So far I've been thinking of CITP creatures to destroy artifacts or enchantments, Withered Wretch, maybe an Angel and maybe something like Maze of Ith. Any suggestions in regards to gains in tempo and/or card advantage would be very much appreciated. Discuss!

[Tha Gunslinga]

Doesn't Stax kinda butcher you?

[lordmayhem]

Doesn't Stax kinda butcher you?

My meta is a bunch of 3cc, sligh, goblins, and oath.

No Stax. If I did have Stax in my meta, I'd probably add Crucibles instead of the Chokes and run 3-4 Seal of Cleansing.

Anyway, I figured that I'm not doing enough to control the board until I drop a beater, so I figure that I should try out 3 Stp or 2 Stp and 1 Vindicate to get rid of anything pesky.

[SonataOfTheCathedral]

You definetly need some Swords To Plowshares probably 3 or 4 since you can't reliably draw into them since Night's Whisper is your only draw. Also Pernicious Deed and/or Engineered Explosives will work you wonders. Especially since a Deed for two won't kill your Negator but it will destroy an Oath Of Druids.

Definetly cut Living Wish, it really isn't as potent in this format as it is in Extended. The only bombs I can see you wishing for are Maze Of Ith, Viridian Zealot and Withered Wretch.

Vegeta suggested a while back a B/G survival deck that was pretty good looking, search for it on SCG. Also I would look at Sean Mckewon's Surival of the Fittest that was B/G from Legacy for some good inspiration.

[lordmayhem]

Well what else can I use instead of Night's Whisper and Necro?

I'll test with 3 Swords and see how I do.

Thing is Pernicious is god damned pricey and I'm skint. But I think I'll give a single Explosives a shot and see how it does, however other than Oath of Druids and Gobbos, I don't know what it can hit.

Cut Living Wish? Hrm, I guess I could cut it for a 2nd CoW and have a more consistent way of recurring Wastes....

I'll look up those decks you were talking about later on, right now I have to get to class 

[BigMac]

If you are looking for an extra draw engine, consider confidant with sensei divining top. It is really proving to be da bomb in vintage as they appear everywhere now. even when you decide against sensei you have angels to give life.

[Dirty_Harry]

1. I agree with SonataOfTheCathedral there realy is no need for living wish the best u can realy get with it is either a Maze of ith or a waste, and that would be easier to do with a crop rotation. Either way not realy a good ideal or needed.
2. I realy think u need Dark Confidents, they would realy help make u more consistent.
3. STP are a must if u expect to play against alot of Oath, but there is always the engenered plague to deal with the oath matchup too, its just that STP has more use then just Oath and some Fish match ups
4. And have u givin any though to Mesmiric Fiend, he realy helps with disruption.
5. Oh and last what happen to Mind twist? Realy great card help agaisnt everything.

[lordmayhem]

Well I do happen to have 2 Confidants. I guess I can try out -2 Whisper +2 Confidant. I've tested Confidant before and the single largest con about running it is that flipping over an Angel costs you a whopping 6 life, but I guess that's what Tops are for, though I don't have any. Hrm... I'm thinking of just pairing it with Cabal Therapy until I can manage to get some Divining Tops from somewhere. Sound good?

@Harry:

• Yes. Living Wish was a bad idea. Its been cut.
• Yeah, Confidant does allow me to dig deeper and get more cards.
• I don't actually play against a LOT, its just one of the matchups I definitely expect. I'll try 2 and maybe MAYBE squeeze a third one in
• I don't think Fiend is actually that great of an idea really.
• Eh, Twist is slow. Especially if you're not draining into it

Hrm, I tried out Confidant on MWS and I must say that I'm quite pleased with the results 
Here's the list:

// Lands
    4  Bloodstained Mire
    3  Polluted Delta
    4  Scrubland
    3  Bayou
    4  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine
    1  Library of Alexandria

// Creatures
    4  Phyrexian Negator
    2  Exalted Angel
    4  Dark Confidant

// Spells
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Mana Crypt
    3  Swords to Plowshares
    2  Crucible of Worlds
    1  Balance
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    4  Duress
    1  Regrowth
    1  Imperial Seal
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Demonic Tutor
    2  Choke
    3  Sensei's Divining Top
    2  Cabal Therapy
    1  Vindicate
    1  Engineered Explosives

Yes I have cut Chalices out completely. Considering that I added 3 Swords and 3 Tops, Chalice was giving me too many dead cards. I'm trying out 2 Cabal Therapy for some additional hand disruption, though I may change these for something else (suggestions welcome).

Angel saw a cut to 2. Thanks to Confidant, I dig more through the deck and as such I don't want my hand clogged with Angels. Also as I addressed earlier flipping over Angels = death.

[BigMac]

As you are playing crucible anyways you could go for a soft lock in waste crucible. To get the stripmine more easilly or to get library out of your deck when you can use it (almost always as you have Bob) i would add a crop rotation. Next to that a third cabal therapy. I would put the chokes into the board as they only will work against island decks.

Another advantage you have against island decks is the negators. This will put control on a clock fast as they also need to deal with Bob not to get behind in the draw count.

Good luck with the deck.

[lordmayhem]

I don't know. I tried out Crop and it was sub-par since there's only 2 targets to find. I've been trying out Fastbond for the whole multiple recurring Wastes with Crucible thing but I haven't tested enough to determine whether its good enough.

I'm actually opting to keep Chokes MD'd since the majority of my meta is an island deck and its one of the main reasons I splashed green  Very disruptive.

And I like the idea of adding another Therapy. I've been testing without Therapies (since 2 were just too random) and its not been very disruptive. I'll see how it'll do with 3. Thanks for the luck.

[Zombie Shakespeare]

Very interesting deck. Thanks for sharing and being willing to have an open minded discussion about it.

Crop Rotation might be a little better if you added additional utility lands like Karakas and Maze of Ith. They may or may not be worth dropping two Wastelands for considering your metagame but I thought I'd throw that out there.

Have you considered Enlightened Tutor?

[lordmayhem]

Have you considered Enlightened Tutor?

Actually, yes I have. I like it a lot and I'm actually using it (sorry for not posting an updated list), since it searches for Top, CoW, Choke, Explosives and mana artifacts. Its absolutely brilliant.

I've contemplated Karakas for the Oath matchup and I really don't know if its worth cutting a land for it. I don't plan on cutting any Wastelands since my meta is full of Duals and I like disrupting their mana base. A lot    I wouldn't mind adding utility lands, since I like Crop Rotation but it would mean messing around with my mana-base.

The updated list:

// Lands
    4  Bloodstained Mire
    3  Polluted Delta
    4  Scrubland
    3  Bayou
    4  Wasteland
    1  Strip Mine
    1  Library of Alexandria

// Creatures
    4  Phyrexian Negator
    2  Exalted Angel
    4  Dark Confidant

// Spells
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Mana Crypt
    2  Swords to Plowshares
    2  Crucible of Worlds
    1  Balance
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    4  Duress
    1  Regrowth
    1  Imperial Seal
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Enlightened Tutor
    2  Choke
    3  Sensei's Divining Top
    3  Cabal Therapy
    1  Engineered Explosives

I'd really like to cram a 3rd Swords or a single Vindicate in there but I have no idea what I could cut for it. Any thoughts?

[Zombie Shakespeare]

I'd really like to cram a 3rd Swords or a single Vindicate in there but I have no idea what I could cut for it. Any thoughts?

Looking at your updated list (thanks for posting it by the way) my first impression might be to cut a single Crucible and Sensei's Diving Top to fit both in. Not sure if that's the best play but it allows you to have a little more versatility without dropping anything alltogether. I've been testing a BW control similar to yours and have found that multiple Tops are a bit too redundant for it.

I noticed Fastbond is no longer on the list. Did that not pan out in testing?

[lordmayhem]

Hrm. I don't think I'll add both. One or the other. I think I'll try swapping a single crucible for either one and see how that goes. I think I'd go with a Vindicate for its flexibility or maybe a Naturalize.

Oh and yes tops can get redundant, but redundancy is consistency and getting the draw engine set up as early as possible is imperative. Besides, you can stop yourself from topdecking more tops by keeping them at the bottom of the 3 cards and then use a shuffle effect, like a fetchland or a tutor. Alternatively, you can just draw it, play it, draw a card (and put it back on top) and shuffle it away.

In regards to Fastbond: it felt too random. Its not even a card I was tutoring for, since I'd much rather smash face and win than mess around with mana denial.

[doomhed]

Didnt Rob the Swordsman T8 a buncha times in 04 with a G/W/B Weenie type deck? Since my outdated decklists are all in my desktop (which resides in my sotrage unit...lol) I dont have a list floating around. Anyone?

[thatguynextdoor]

When I saw this decklist and post a few things came to mind:
Instead of Seal of Cleansing...how about Ray of Revelation? Its a lot better against Oath ^_^ Also, if Sligh and Goblins are prominant in your meta..why would you maindeck Negators? Seems like it is going to be a dead card in most of your games-leaving you with just Angels