KI.TT - Tendrils Francais

[klu]

I mainly use demonic consulation as a 3-4x card tutor (on ywill or bl if i know i won't be able to kill later (if my opponent is full tap)or if I already have tendrils in hand). 3-4 targets are usual : shield sphere, culling the weak, infernal contract and cabal ritual.
The only way i can die is when the 3 tendrils are remove from the game, that's quite a bit unlucky when it happens.
I don't think you will find any better card to replace it. I spent so many times on search engine to see all the card i would be able to play in that kind of deck.

I have done some tests against Vroman uba and i have to say that the game is mine. Uba has some answers to tt at the first game (increased if it plays sphere) but in the second game, the lack of tutors for strip and mostly the lack of tangle wire make the match up quite good for TT.
I confirm that against many kind of gift, TT is just faster. After sb, xantid do a huge work, killing turn2 while your opponent FoW the swarm on the 1st turn.

That said, yes, blue does reduce the number of first turn kills by maybe 10%. That couls be significant but I found in tournament play it was not enough to make me want to drop it

Keep in mind your opponent doesn't know what you are playing. He won't mulligan his opponening hand cause it's a good hand even if it has no FoW and/or not fast enough. This act for the first game. The second game is really different because in general, you have won the first one and your opponent begins and know when to mulligan. This means you'll have to be slower anyway. Looking at your opponent mimics gives many information, a lot more than when playing any other deck

[THEBIGLOU]

Sry THEBIGLOU, but i really don't see the goal of your post on this topic. IGG and TT just run two different comboing  mechanism...

When you say you trashed the demonic consultation (spell for 1Cc that works like a demonic) to bring in an IGG ("trixy" spell for 4 Cc), i must admit you hurt me

klu,

i don't believe that I ever suggested the card.  I was responding to bebe mentioning it for inclusion.  I think IGG is a very intersting card that is still up for debate regarding how good it is (in any deck). There has been only 1 deck that has done anything with this card...but will it be the next Gifts (now even included in GAT).  No need to respond to this as I do not want to hijack your thread.


BIGLOU

[bebe]

I have to say that after trying all sorts of different tutors, Klu has really built a very tuned deck. It looks a pile for sure but it does play well. My list is only two or three cards away from his original list and the sideboard is a bit different for the TO metagame but still has  Xantids, Massacres, a few bounce spells and land. I think the other inclusions are preferences as you will outrace Welder as long as you remember to get those therapies out against it. I pmed Klu about a few cards I was testing but he pretty much got me thinking his way. Having played ther deck against STax, Oath and Fish, I don't see much to change. 

[klu]

I brought the deck to a tournament last sunday : Clichy XIII, 81 players. Good top 8 dotation.
The list i played :

// Lands
    3  Polluted Delta
    3  Bayou
    2  Swamp

// Creatures
    4  Shield Sphere
    4  Phyrexian Walker
    2  Ornithopter

// Spells
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Necropotence
    1  Lotus Petal
    3  Tendrils of Agony
    4  Culling the Weak
    4  Dark Ritual
    3  Diabolic Intent
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Chrome Mox
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    4  Infernal Contract
    4  Land Grant
    4  Cabal Ritual
    3  Cruel Bargain
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Demonic Consultation
    3  Cabal Therapy

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Island
SB: 2  Rebuild
SB: 2  Massacre
SB: 1  Tropical Island
SB: 3  Xantid Swarm
SB: 2  Chain of Vapor
SB: 2  Echoing Truth
SB: 1  Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1  Underground Sea

Notice the lack of ancestral in my sb , i found noone for the tournament.
The meta i expected was quite powered (at least 40% -> no proxies here) : Oath, gift, stax and random decks.
I was a bit wrong, there was less stax and more combo than expected. Well, a good meta for my deck

Round 1 : 2Land Belcher -powered- (i lose toss)
game 1 : quite bad for both of us, we mull to 6 and he could not killed me before turn3. i drawed into nothing...
game 2 : he had to mull to 5, he took a warning for drawing 7 cards after mull. I killed on turn 2.
game 3 : I had a very good hand but he played twister on turn 1, then demonic for black and ywill for another twister. Then say "next"... uhh. The second twister brought me that hand : crea x2, culling, dark ritual, land x2 and diabolic intent.

SB : nothing
1.0.0

Round 2 : Big blue oldschool -powered- (i lose toss)
game 1 : After mulliganing once, i killed him first turn even if he mana leak me.
game 2 : he mulliganed a good hand (lands fow..) : turn 1 chalice for 1, next.. turn 2 he draws another chalice that he played for 0. the number of counters made me impossible to cast my cabal ritual and superman killed me..
game 3 : i play therapy, he FoW, i say next with land, shield sphere and mox jet in play.. his first turn saw him playing mox, mox, powder keg, he sacrificed it, then played strip mine and chalice for 0, after several turns where i drawed some lands/land grant and he drawed nothing else than a wasteland, i killed him with a xantid swarm on table.

SB :
-Game 2 : -2 orni -1 walker + 3 xantid swarm.
-Game 3 : -2 land grant -1 bayou -1culling -2 diabolic intent -1 walker +3 U lands + 2 echoing truth + 1 rebuild + 1 hurkyl's recall.
2.0.0

Round 3 : Grim long -powered - (i lose toss)
game 1 : he played twister turn 1 (again) and gave me a controlish hand -> 2 cabal therapy, some beast and mana. i play therapy -> dark ritual, hitting 1. i see duress x2, cabal ritual and brainstorm and demonic, i made the mystake not to flashback the therapy for demonic but for duress.. this costs me the game.
game 2 : if i remember well, i killed him on turn 2.
game 3 : I played 2 draw4 in the first 2 turn to find nothing. Sad when the deck is full of threats.

SB : nothing
2.1.0

Round 4 : RDW -unpowered- (i lose toss)
game 1 : he played mountain and mog fanatic..
game 2 : i kept a mulled hand without enough mana acceleration : tendrils, dark ritual, diabolic intent, lotus petal and 2 crea.. i just got some time, playing against burn decks. he played a first turn goblin cadet, i played walker...
once i drawed a culling the weak (on turn 3 or 4) i just stormed him out.

SB : nothing
3.1.0

Round 5 : TT confident (control) -powered- (i lose toss)
game 1 : i killed him first turn, i had time to see his hand with a previously played cabal therapy.
game 2 : after 2-3 turns while iam just waiting to get enough threats in hand to go over its counters, he played tinker for colossus (he was then full tap). I killed him through his 2 fow.

SB : -2 orni -1 walker + 3 xantid swarm.
4.1.0

Round 6 : Ubastax -powered- (i lose toss)
game 1 : he begins with crucible and chalice for 0.. i play necro, paying 8 he plays sphere of res, next, i play a land and say next. 1 or 2 turn after (1turn before i kill him), he drawed a second sphere of res that ended the game.
game 2 : i have not a good hand, but it's good enough to be kept : bayou, land grant x2, echoing truth, draw4 x2, cabal ritual. land, land grant go. He played 1st turn uba + chalice for 0. i removed something that i don't remember, drawed 4 cards and sayed next. he played bob, smokestack, sphere of res... this is game.

SB :
-2culling the weak -2 diabolic intent -2 ornithopter -1 phyrexian walker -3 cabal therapy
+3 U lands + 2 chain of vapor +1 hurkyl's recall +2 echoing truth +2 rebuild
4.2.0

Round 7 : Tps -powered- (i win the toss !!:))
i killed him turn 2 on both games, the first one i had a therapy for his fow, the second, i 1st turned tutor for a black lotus and waited for turn 2 with 2 tendrils in hand.

SB : nothing
5.2.0

I ended 11th, a bit angry to have played against stax whereas it was the only stax of the 8 first table. Angry that stax is quite a good match up but my opponent was really talentuous  .
The only losses of the day where with some 50/50 match up decks. -> combo is played on the dice, stax is a mulligan + dice game.

The deck is good, damn good. Just try it.

[bebe]

Yes itis as good as you say. I've succumbed and have been playing two Pride's Reward for one Consultation and one Cuel Bargain. I love it and hate it. At times it means an almost sure turn two win and other times it just fizzles - mind you so does cruel bargain at times. I also keep one Ancestral and one Echoing Truth main decked and tweak the mana to correspond. Otherwise I use your list and its great - we have a lot of Stax and Fish here so some changes are in order.

[klu]

I know many people watched this deck with a dubitative eye. Maybe they thought it was another kobold list..?
It's not
I have to say a few things about me :
I do not own power even if i got a full one for each tournament i've played since more than one year. I made many Top8 (around 12 on 20 tournaments) with Ki.merchant and now that portal is useable, i do only run this deck. Why?
-that's not because my merchant deck is a bad deck (last french tournament has seen 2 Ki.merchant on the 2 first place)
-because it is faster than any control deck in the format.
-because it runs over fow and duress.
-because it has a good match up against any stax
-because once I have reached the top8 with any gift.deck after 6 or 7 rounds, I 'm quite often tired, i don't speak about any headhake to go through the finals. -it is something you have to take care about-
-because the deck is cheap to build (even if it does not interact with my deckbuilding).

I already won a tournament with this deck, a friend of mine did the same in denmarck and i reached some top8 quite regulary.
Don't stop your oppinion on the decklist. Just imagine a belcher deck resiliant against any disruption. That's it.

[Rittler]

I did a lot of Goldfishing with this deck and it seems to be freakin' insane, I now would like to take it to a tourney but I own no Lotus, so what would you replace it with?

[bebe]

Well, I dropped the pain's reward and am back to playing a d. consult. I do have a main deck ancestral and truth though Hasn't seemed to slow me down. I tweaked my mana base to acomodate. For b. lotus - well led is never bad in tendrils. Mox diamond is also playable with grants and contracts. Don't know what Klu would say. I have seen the germans playing with this build as well now. Some of their versions include tinker/jar/colossus. I'm not fond of diluting the deck to include those cards - it means adding a mystical as well and removing bargains to make space. I think it slows the deck down and just makes stp, duplicants and bounce useful when they should not be. Could be a sideboard option I suppose.

This deck is different from the other tendrils builds. It takes a little getting used to. You need to really analyze your hand and options and make the correct plays. But it can be played as a budget version. The few expensive cards are nice but not crucial. The deck can win as quickly without them but it loses a little consistency. Mox Diamond and LeD can go in for Lotus an Mox Jet. A grant can be dropped for an extra land.

[klu]

I've done further test with the deck. Mostly for the sideboard where rebuild seemed to be a bit too expensive (sphere of resistance is hard to deal with where hurkyl's recall makes the same job for cheaper. I don't really care about the storm it should make.

SB: 1 Island
SB: 1 Rebuild
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 1 Tropical Island
SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Underground Sea
SB: 1 Ancestral Recall
SB: 2 Hurkyl's Recall

I did not play TT on the last tournament i've gone to because i expected a chalice heavy meta. I won the tournament with a new list of my KI.Merchant, bringing home a timetwister.

For the unpowered design of the deck, i've work on a list that would not be as b.Lotus based as the powered list is. Some people already asked it to me here where we don't have many proxy tournament. I think the unpowered version is more resiliant against stax in the main deck because of the additional land and an additional draw4. I think you loose around 10-15% first turn kill to reach a good 35-40% (that is fearly good with an unpowered deck)
I've not done many test with it (around half a hundred goldfishes)


KI.TT unpowered
// Lands
    3  Bayou
    2  Swamp
    4  Polluted Delta   +1

// Creatures
    1  Ornithopter   -1
    4  Shield Sphere
    4  Phyrexian Walker

// Spells
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Necropotence
    1  Lotus Petal
    3  Tendrils of Agony
    4  Culling the Weak
    4  Dark Ritual
    2  Diabolic Intent   -1
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    4  Cabal Ritual
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Demonic Consultation
    1  Chrome Mox
    4  Infernal Contract
    4  Land Grant
    4  Cabal Therapy   +1
    4  Cruel Bargain   +1
    1  Mox Diamond   +1
    1  Mox Jet   -1
    1  Black Lotus   -1

[Rittler]

Well, your unpowered decklist totally kicks blue...
I would like to keep it, since I own an ancestral and the last tourney I often needed the Echoing Truth (i. e. to bounce a Platinum Angel) So what three cards would you cut for an Underground Sea, the Ancestral and an Echoing Truth, in the unpowered Version?
I like the idea of having 4 Cabal Therapy main, since I sided them in nearly every game, but I don't like the fact of loosing one tutor,since the tutors nearly always brought me the cards I won with.
I would cut a Polluted Delta for the Sea a Culling the Weak and the Mana Crypt (Which always was a dead card for me, since you don't need much colorless mana) for the Echoing Truth and the Ancestral.
I know cutting mana always sucks, but I can't think of any other cards to cut.

[klu]

I never played blue in the main.
I think you should try to borrow a lotus for your tourney since you will play powered. The difference is quite impressive. As i said, i always borrow the cards i play with. (i was full powd + 4 drain last saturday..)
I do not like tutors in unpow version because they can't make you gain mana unless you got threshold... but i've not tried it that much and you should be right.
the 4th therapy is not a great choice imo because you don't want to end a good storm turn finding 2 therapies in a draw4.. 3 seems to be the right number. That's what tests showed.
LED is a good card but it made me lose some games because of bad choices (emptying hand and being countered means u just loose. It has let a slot for an addtitional swamp. (at the beginning i ran 5 lands+4land grant. now 8+4).
for blue you would better cut some land grant or you will have to bring in a tropical which is really not a good way.

You prefer echoing truth rather than chain of vapor? why? because of the chalice for 1?
I think you should not touch the culling the weaks.. they are such good cards. You always want one in hand when you going nuts with draw4

[Rittler]

I love Echoing Truth, since I had to deal with 3 Meddling Mages at the same time. They were set on Tinker, Tendrils and Dark Ritual (as far as I remember) and I just tutored for the Echoing Truth and went off the same turn. Also it gets you rid of several Chalices at the same time. That's why I prefer it, also Chalice @ 1 is something I often faced, Chalice @ 2 is something I never saw  I think I'm going to cut a Polluted for the Sea, a Cabal Therapy for the Echoing Truth and the Mana Crypt (which I see no use for in this deck) for the Ancestral. So my unpowered list would look something like this:

/ Lands
    3  Bayou
    2  Swamp
    3  Polluted Delta 
    1  Underground Sea

// Creatures
    1  Ornithopter   
    4  Shield Sphere
    4  Phyrexian Walker

// Spells
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Necropotence
    1  Lotus Petal
    3  Tendrils of Agony
    4  Culling the Weak
    4  Dark Ritual
    2  Diabolic Intent   
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor
    4  Cabal Ritual
    1  Echoing Truth
    1  Demonic Consultation
    1  Chrome Mox
    4  Infernal Contract
    4  Land Grant
    3  Cabal Therapy   
    4  Cruel Bargain   
    1  Mox Diamond   
    1  Ancestral Recall

I won't be able to borrow a Lotus, since I don't know anybody who has one. I am able to borrow a Mox Jet sometimes (if he doesn't play it himself) I own an Emerald but I don't think it would do better than Mox Diamond or Chrome Mox, so I'll leave it at home. Although I never played with a Demonic Consultation I'll test it now, since you seem to swear on it 
Concerning the Sideboard, what would you bring in against landcontrolling decks? I ask this because on the last tourny I lost a match against someone playing a U/G/W Fishy thing, using Wastes, Crucible and Stifles to keep me from getting Mana on the table, and when he played Chalice @ 0 + 1 the match was over for me. Perhapes I was too slow because of being unpowered - might be. But also I didn't know what to bring in from the sideboard to face his strategy.

P.S.: My Sideboard at that tourney looked like this:

1x Tinker
1x Darksteel Collosus
1x Cabal Therapy
1x Rebuild
2x Massacre
3x Xantid Swarm
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Echoing Truth
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Darkblast
2x Blue Elemental Blast

No more blue manasources in the board, because I had 3 MD.

[klu]

I've done more test, playing a blue splash in the main for the chain of vapor and ancestral. I admit it works pretty well but i had quite often some mana problem to cast it.

Having some lands in the sb is not only a question of colour. They are the best cards i want to bring in while facing stax decks. After sb, i got a mana base with at least 11 lands including 3 basics + land grants. That make stax an amazingly good match up, using bounces before going combo..
The cards i really think you don't need are controls cards like darkblast or reb. i really don't see what could be they'r use.
for your opponent's hand : u got therapy/xantid, for his board, u got bounces for any kind of permanent -> chalice / meddling / arcan lab.

can you tell me when you bring in :
darkblast
reb
tinker/colossus

I play mana crypt because it is the best of-colour accel you can have in a deck. I was thinking about sol ring in sb to be able to play with SoR on board.

[Rittler]

I must admit I never played against Staxx with this deck yet. So I have absolutely no experience in this matchup, but I'll trust you and put some lands into the board. Concerning my Sideboard-Choices:
The Darkblast was there to get rid of Welder, Confidant, etc. Since I didn't use it yet, cause I didn't play against Welder and saw very little Confidants I'm not sure if they're needed.
The Blue Elemental Blast was there to help in the Dragon matchup, which I expected a lot of. I only faced one and won the game before I even drew any BEBs, so I think they're not needed at all --> I'll kick em
Tinker/Collosus was there to help against matchups I thought to be difficult, such as Oath or TPS or Gifts and as it tourned out also R/G Beats. Actually I was happy to know them in my board, because I even twice was the victim of Cranial Extraction (against TPS and some kind of Confidant Suicide) and wouln't have had a chance to win without it. Also in the R/G Beats matchup it was quite helpful, because: Pillar+Infernal+Bargain+Bolt= Death 

Might be a stupid question but what is SoR? 

[klu]

there are 2 match up that are not "good" :
-Stax running chalice, tangle and SoR(-> sphere of resistance) the match up becomes good after sb because you bring in lands and a lot of bounce.

-Fish UW running meddling, daze and chalice. This match up is the worst. all the card the fish player has are quite boring for combo. The 0Cc creatures really help in the match up saving you time against the fish player bitdown.


All the other are mostly good match up for the deck.
-Any control match up (slaver, gift, t1t)  is a fair match up pre-side. TT moslty runs over fow with its cabal therapy and the ability of creating 10 storm without mana (playing many 0Cc spells).
Post side, these decks MUST fow your xantid on 1st turn or just loose..
-Oath is a really good match up because of the orchards. If they run chalice, the match up become harder.
-Burn decks are just joke, you got only 2 card to fear : lightning bolt and fireblast. Pillar is not really a threat in that way your opponent will burn himself to deal damage to you. just wait and discard at eot before you got a good enough hand to kill. You can plan to kill with 2 tendrils too.
-Dragon should be the best match up for you (after gob) because md u kill much faster and post-sb, in addition to killing him faster, he can't kill you without any preventive disruption (you are running 3-4 bounces).

[Rittler]

Good to know, since I didn't have much chance to test this deck.
Well my meta is like, some TPS (not that much), some Gifts (very few, like 1-3), many Oath, many Dragon, several Fishy things, several Rogue-Noob-Decks, few Birdshit (1-3), few Staxx (1-4), several random Combo (like Turboland), few Keeper (1-3), few Food Chain (1-3), several Affinitys.

So I guess my Sideboard should look like this:

2x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Rebuild
1x Echoing Truth
3x Xantid Swarm
1x Underground Sea
1x Island
1x Tinker
1x Darksteel Collosus
1x Cabal Therapy
2x Massacre

What would you say?

[bebe]

This bears repeating - I've seen tinker/colossusused and generaly it s too slow and just does not help against any maych up you can already win. Oath in particular is generally easy. Yes Klu - I advocated truth because of chalice and mages. I only spalsh two blue cards - I stolepretty much your complete build as its a fne tuned deck to be sure. I did drop one culling  - it was culing or cabal ritual or mox diamond that had to go - I might put it back.
I did add pithing needles to my side as theyare good againstso many decks post side - it may be overkill but I found them strong against stax, fish and dragon - three match ups I do not mind help with. Thdeck I posted is pretty much what I play although I might try and fit the culling back for a mox diamond ... this deck is really pretty solid. Iim happy that it has been dismissed by most players. It means no one is gunning for us  and makeswinning game one much easier.

[Dominik]

I will say that I wrote up an abbreviated tournament report on the french food for thought post found here

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=26857.0

@bebe: Do you still have this saved on your computer or posted somewhere else (the link is down)? I would really like to see it to have a feel for the best playstyle of the deck, etc. I would really appreciate it if you could either post or PM me the article/link. Thanks!

[Gandalf_The_White_1]

I will say that I wrote up an abbreviated tournament report on the french food for thought post found here

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=26857.0

@bebe: Do you still have this saved on your computer or posted somewhere else (the link is down)? I would really like to see it to have a feel for the best playstyle of the deck, etc. I would really appreciate it if you could either post or PM me the article/link. Thanks!

Try http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=26857.0

/forums is no longer necessary

[klu]

I have done a lot more tests, mostly with blue in the main.
My feelings were that blue is far from being essential in the main. It made me win some games (cause ancestral is a good card) but the bounce effect is not really required before SBing. At the opposite, i lost some match because of the fact the cards are : ... blue. While comboing, you have black mana available, a lot of black mana but you have only 2 blue mana source drawable to play the 2 cards : lotus petal and black lotus.

I've tested against a good player with an unpow oath running : 4 fows, 3 duress, 4 leak, 4 chalice and 5 strip and the match was more than 60/40 for me.
The only reason I would run blue in the main is in a fish metagame where meddling effect is really boring. Even stax match up is not that bad because of the toss and the fact your opponent has not mulliganed a hand without chalice and sphere (which are the 2 only card that slow you comboing) I don't think jester's cap is a big problem because in the main, if stax player plays jesters T1 to activate it on turn 2 and he doesn't have a chalice, he will let you comboing with an 8th card which dramaticaly increases the 1st turn kill. If you really fear the jesters decks, just pack a fourth tendrils in your SB..
I've done a lot of tests against stax too and the match up post side appears to be really good.

Don't hesitate to mulligan often : the deck supports quite well mulliganing to 5 cards. and your opponent may think he has not to mull to fow. That can be a good point.
I saw that italian and german people have appreciated the deck and i would like them to give their feelings here or by PM.

If anyone has questions or still have doubt on the ability of the deck to win a tournament, just ask or tell..
JB.

[Rittler]

I don't think jester's cap is a big problem because in the main, if stax player plays jesters T1 to activate it on turn 2 and he doesn't have a chalice, he will let you comboing with an 8th card which dramaticaly increases the 1st turn kill. If you really fear the jesters decks, just pack a fourth tendrils in your SB..

I don't fear the Cap either, but I fear Cranial Extraction, since it once happened that I played against TPS and in our 2nd game he played first turn Cranial Extraction removing all my Tendrils and I couldn't do anything about it, since he began the game. So I was really glad to have Tinker/Collosus sided in...I lost this game though, because he was faster...

So what would you do against Cranial Extraction? I also saw some Oaths running it in their Sideboards...

Since there are several Fish-Players in my metagame I will definately keep blue in the maindeck, but I'll try Chain of Vapor instead of Echoing Truth...

The next tournament I'm going to play this deck is in april...and I'll let you know how it worked...

[ReAnimator]

Bebe and I's meta is filled with UW fish with 4 meddling mages main between 4-7 players at every tournament run this deck, so we do need a maindeck solution, there are not a lot of chalices or stax decks however.

Maybe something that is black instead like a dark blast or something for us to deal with the mages. Darkblast seems way worse than the etruth though because you don't really care about welder or shaman or confidant.
I haven't really had a problem with the Etruth main, and it has even helped me up storm by bouncing 2 walkers or sphere's while going off, though that is really rare.

[stichadou]

So what would you do against Cranial Extraction? I also saw some Oaths running it in their Sideboards...

When someone sidein cranial extraction against combo, i sunrise like that

You have discard and  you are not able o win before that your opponent play a Cranial extraction??
If you fear Cranil extraction, you fear everything.

Maybe something that is black instead like a dark blast or something for us to deal with the mages

2 cards for 1 meddling mage, you will never win with hat.
Bounces or alternate kills seem better solution. You can also play something like Massacre.

[Rittler]

I loose against Cranial Extraction cause my opponent plays it first turn before I ever had a chance to do anything against it, since I haven't had a turn yet.

[stichadou]

I loose against Cranial Extraction cause my opponent plays it first turn before I ever had a chance to do anything against it, since I haven't had a turn yet

Do you really think that you have to find a solution to a problem like that. I explain this situation:
- you have a problem with a card that kill you, but a card that only a couple of people play it in the world:)
- the cc is 4 and your opponent can't play it before turn 3, except  some lucky beginning that can compare to a beginning with turn 1: tral, walk, duress etc... turn 1 cranial, this is very rare.

So the good question is:
Do you have to modify your list or your sideboard for a card unplayed and with a cc of 4??

[klu]

So the good question is:
Do you have to modify your list or your sideboard for a card unplayed and with a cc of 4??

i think the answer depends on the metagame.. If you noticed several top8 decks running cranial in sb. Maybe you should have an answer because a deck such as TPS does run dark ritual and can quite easily cast it on turn 1.
When I built my legacy version of the deck, i played 1 charblecher in the main of a 6lands deck : even if it is not lethal, it can take care of meddling mages easily. after sb, i used to run 3 belcher because cranial and meddling were quite a bit played in my meta.


@ReAnimator
Yes, if your meta is full of fish, i understand you'r playing blue in the main.. chain of vapor is far better than echoing can be but the matter is then if your opponents play chalice or not. If they do, echoing is better but if they prefer null rod, then chain of vapor will fit perfectly. with blue in the main, i would replace the mana crypt i was running with a mox diamond that i don't run because there are a lot of chalice here and i don't want to have to discard a land to add 1 storm.

same as i said about cranial, the best non blue answer in the main would be belcher, even if you play a lot of lands, it cans take care about meddling and all the creatures your opponent would run. It cans kill your opponent too by activating it a few times (generally 2-3 times).

[Dominik]

After some testing with this deck, I've also found Mox Diamond to be very unreliable. Since KI.TT plays with only eight (more or less) lands, I found that I'd usually either:

A. Would rather drop/get a basic land due to my opponent playing Null Rod or Stax.
B. Have already dropped a land, and have a useless Mox in my hand (without one of the eight lands this deck runs to discard to the diamond).

The version I tested was the blue one, and the Polluted Deltas were usually enough to use the Ancestral Recall or Echoing Truth I needed. I have since dropped the Mox Diamond, and added the last Culling of the Weak (now I run a full set of these).

EDIT: Chrome Mox, on the other hand, is amazing in this deck.

[bebe]

Reanimator ( Andrew ) took our version of French Tendrils to another event. Andrew went undefeated in swiss only to lose to OFM in the first round of the top eight. He also had a bad consult in that round ( why I'm stil lleary of the card ). If we all PM him perhaps he will post his list and a short report ...
Again the deck has proved to be resiliant. It seems it only loses to itself with bad mulligans occasionally ( funny I found two land belcher to do te exact same thing when I used to play it heavily although this deck is less vulnerable to hate ). 
Its tme for people to get oline with this deck. It plays much better than t looks. 

[ReAnimator]

Actually i lost to Confidant control in the top 8, the version with manaleak, which makes it quite a bad match up. I mulliganed on the play both games and i never resolved a draw spell to get out of it. Then like Bebe said i essentially lost to a bad consult.  All the other lists in top 8 were good matchups except for a grim long list which is a coin flip. there were 32 players for this event.

I haven't written a report yet because i was busy with school this week, nothing too exciting happend so i will keep it brief, if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.

The list was pretty standard with the 1 ancestral and 1 etruth maindeck and 1 underground sea and only 3 land grants and the mana crypt which i found quite good throughout the day. You need at least 2 colourless to go off on the turn you combo, usually more so i found it was fine. 

I got off 3 first turn kills this tournament, and another 3 games i could have potentially gone off turn one but decided to wait for a sure thing because their decks were slow or had no disruption.

Round 1 Game one i win turn 1 on the play so i have no idea what he was playing! It turned out he was with affinity, he mulliganed into a land flood for the second game, though it didn't really matter as shield sphere's gave me infinite time to set up. I had to sort of slow role it because he had shrapnel blasts and lightning bolts which are sort of dangerous with all the contracts.

Round 2 my friend Jordan with Bazaar madness (old school bombs over Baghdad) with chalice and nullrod and in the board Pyro Pillars and Tormods crypts. So much hate!
Game one I go off on turn three while shield sphere keeps me alive for ever.  I <3 shield sphere 
Game 2 he gets a chalice down, to keep the one shield sphere that i have on the table the only defense i will have all game, he then gets down a pillar and t crypt and it is all over.
Game 3 goes on for a while and eventually I have to go for it or i die next turn, he has a chalice out but i manage to bounce it then play a draw four, luckily he doesn't have the burn in his hand so i win with exactly enough to go off.

Round 3 was against Marc Sims with Grim long. What a coin flip!
Game one we duress/therapy the crap out of each other, then he top decks a draw 7 and goes off.
Game two is much of the same but i manage to go off on turn 3.
Game three I have a double therapy hand with a walker, it doesn't matter though as he mulliganed to 5 and i top deck a draw 4 into The Win^tm and beat him even after he dressed me on his only turn.

Round 4 was versus Ray Mitchell (Oshawa stompy creator, and this tournament is being held in Oshawa so he has definite home field advantage) He is playing muddle oath which is much better for us than the chalice and mana leak and duress versions.
I got paired down and a draw doesn't help him that much, I agree to give him the draw if i win since I'm in either way but i don't want to scoop and get paired down and have to play.
Game one goes on for a loooooong time, he counters a bunch of my draw stuff and resolves all 4 brainstorms ancestral and Fof but he still never finds a Oath! He taps low finally to play a draw spell then an oath and i go off with out much trouble on like turn 12!
Game two I go off first turn when i top deck a lotus, he had a force of will in hand but i had the therapy and he wasn't lucky enough to have double blue on turn one.
i give him the draw anyway so he still has a chance, and it turned out that he did make top 8 so thats awesome.

round 5 ID

Top 8 was against the aforementioned Confidant deck, piloted by the eventual winner and teammate of mine.
Not much to say, i mulligan both games and never really get a hand together that can go through all the counters and duress's.

A lot of people said to me throughout the day that "wow that deck is a lot better than it looks on paper"
 The fact that it doesn't rely on artifact mana and can play through just about any hate makes it really resilient and most people didn't realize that till they saw the deck in action,

Thank you to the designers! the deck is a blast to play

-Andrew

[Dominik]

I have done a lot more tests, mostly with blue in the main.
My feelings were that blue is far from being essential in the main. It made me win some games (cause ancestral is a good card) but the bounce effect is not really required before SBing. At the opposite, i lost some match because of the fact the cards are : ... blue. While comboing, you have black mana available, a lot of black mana but you have only 2 blue mana source drawable to play the 2 cards : lotus petal and black lotus.
I've tested against a good player with an unpow oath running : 4 fows, 3 duress, 4 leak, 4 chalice and 5 strip and the match was more than 60/40 for me.
The only reason I would run blue in the main is in a fish metagame where meddling effect is really boring.

After some testing, I've also found that adding blue really decreases the decks ability to win within the first 1-2 turns, so much that I now only run blue in SB, like Klu. Game one you have the advantage anyways, as your opponent doesn't know what you are playing, and most likely will not even know what card to name for Meddling Mage (provided that you end your games quickly and they don't get a chance to look around and see what you are playing after they have finished their own games). Post SB, the game is yours as well, because of all the bounce available, the two Massacres, and all the tutors/draw you run to fetch those cards.

Also, sorry if this is a stupid question, but what does TT stand for? I know KI stands for the creator's team, and one of the T's probably stands for Tendrils, but what does the other T stand for? Thanks again for your help.