|
mr_rogers
|
 |
« on: February 02, 2006, 07:58:19 am » |
|
A friend of mine and myself have been trying to come up with tech for the oath mirror. We both like Tinker/DCS but you need more than that to win as our builds at least, run bounce. After much testing of the mirror we've decided the key is who has more Forbidden Orchards in play. Once we tried LftL in the maindeck as a one of we really liked it. LftL was winning every mirror match we came up against. My team mate decided to take Oath to the most recent Waterbury and played 2 or 3 mirror matches which he won. He decided to run an additional LftL in the sideboard and it paid off big time. Anyway let me get to the point of this whole thing. Has anyone else tested Life fron the Loam in Oath? Did you like it? if not why did it not make the cut?
Discuss.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Team WTF!?!?!............Big multicolored hats rule!
|
|
|
Eddie
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 361
Mr. Monster
|
|
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2006, 10:27:05 am » |
|
We tried it in the Oath mirror and basically came to the same conclusion. Oath mirrors are all about the orchard war and recurring orchards and strip-effects is game winning. Personally, I believe I'd rather have 1 main, but certain team members decided to put them in the side...
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
No room in the house exceeds a length of twenty-five feet, let alone fifty feet, let alone fifty-six and a half feet, and yet Chad and Daisy's voices are echoing, each call responding with an entirely separate answer. In the living room, Navidson discovers the echoes emanating from a dark, doorless hallway which has appeared out of nowhere in the west wall.
House of Leaves - Danielewski
|
|
|
|
Evenpence
|
|
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2006, 11:04:32 am » |
|
Since Oath's conception, it's always been about the Orchard War in the mirror.
Has anyone also considered running additional bounce in the SB too? For bouncing your own tokens that orchard gives you, bouncing their orchard before their upkeep, etc.
Additional Bounce is always good against Stax too, even if it's just Rushing River.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
[17:25] Desolutionist: i hope they reprint empty the warrens as a purple card in planar chaos |
|
|
|
mr_rogers
|
|
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2006, 11:13:55 am » |
|
In my Oath build I run one Rushing River maindeck, 2 Life from the Loam sb and one Echoing Truth sb. Bounce plus the LftLs really help to win the Oath mirror.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Team WTF!?!?!............Big multicolored hats rule!
|
|
|
|
meadbert
|
|
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2006, 11:57:50 am » |
|
Has anyone tried running any of the hunted creatures?
Oathing them out might be annoying but it would guarrentee a win of the orchard war.
In the early game they are probably too slow.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
T1: Arsenal
|
|
|
|
The_spooky_kid
|
|
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2006, 12:16:16 pm » |
|
I think the best thing for the oath mirror would to just outplay them. Maybe cranial extraction for some tech.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Team ICBM
|
|
|
Harlequin
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 1860
|
|
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2006, 12:27:20 pm » |
|
I run 1 echo on the main, and 3 rushing rivers on the side.
I've seen alot of oath decks running Spawning pit too... Wich i think is silly because even in the mirror its mostly a dead card. If my opponent has an obseen amount of spawning pits, i side out my oaths and turn my game plan into "dont let them resolve oath, and win via token beats" 2 annul, 3 rushing rivers + 14 other counterspells... bring it mirror match. If you have life of the loam and get your orchard that just means more beat sticks for me.
I would never run spawning pits ... but skullclamp ... hrmmm (secrete tech?)
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Member of Team ~ R&D ~
|
|
|
Moxlotus
Teh Absolut Ballz
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 2199
Where the fuck are my pants?
|
|
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2006, 12:56:15 pm » |
|
Crucible is better since it can be used against Stax also. Life really sucks and costs you draws. Crucible only costs mana once and doesn't cost you draws. It can also be Tinkered for. Crucible>>>Life
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Harlequin
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 1860
|
|
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2006, 01:01:53 pm » |
|
Crucible can be welded out, but life can be GY hated out. The nice thing about the dredge mechanic in oath is that if you hit your blessing you reset your libary..... wich actually makes it suck because now life of the loam it worthless, beause you just shuffled all your targets. Do you peeps running life from the loam side out your blessings?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Member of Team ~ R&D ~
|
|
|
Moxlotus
Teh Absolut Ballz
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 2199
Where the fuck are my pants?
|
|
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2006, 01:06:52 pm » |
|
Crucible can be welded out, but life can be GY hated out. The nice thing about the dredge mechanic in oath is that if you hit your blessing you reset your libary..... wich actually makes it suck because now life of the loam it worthless, beause you just shuffled all your targets.  Do you peeps running life from the loam side out your blessings?
You also dredge away Tinker which sucks. With blessing you reshuffle your wastes, so Life is pointless. Without blessing you dump your good cards like Tinker and your one Oath into the grave. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
mr_rogers
|
|
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2006, 05:57:32 pm » |
|
Moxlotus you bring up some good points. I have not had to play Life against stax as there is none in my area, but I can see where crucible would now be better. I am going to try it out in place of the lftl. Do you think running one md and one sb is good or should I run 2 sb?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Team WTF!?!?!............Big multicolored hats rule!
|
|
|
|
And11
|
|
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 06:59:45 pm » |
|
I've done some testing with Crucible my self, but I prefer stuff like Spawning Pit, becuase of their casting cost. My team's sideboard plan for the mirror is find Tinker, search out Colossus and protect it with Duress, Force, REB and Leak. And of course we keep one copy of Oath to tutor out, if we manage to get Orchard superiority and are holding a tutor/the Oath. I agree that Orchard and Strips will determine the winner of this mirror, if both of you keep in Oath's. I'd rather, hopefully, make some of my opponents sideboard cards dead and aim for the Tinker-plan. They might counter/Duress the wrong stuff, since they have no clue I'm going for another gameplan. This kind of mirror strategy has helped my team win a lot of important matches so far, but Cruci/Life seem interesting. If only I had the time for testing interesting stuff like that, man...  Good luck, /Andii |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
:--)
|
|
|
Moxlotus
Teh Absolut Ballz
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 2199
Where the fuck are my pants?
|
|
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2006, 07:16:08 pm » |
|
If they are keeping in more than 1 Oath then you should be winning anyway since you have less dead cards. Anybody that doesn't know that the opponent has Tinker is a moron and you should be able to out-play them without any sideboard help. Everything you said And11 is what has been known for a long time. The point is to try to find ways to win assuming your opponents have a clue on how to sideboard.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
LessThanRight
|
|
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2006, 09:10:28 am » |
|
Life from the Loam was great at Waterbury. I agree with the criticism, however. But, here's how I view the LftL.
As a one of main deck, you really only want to cast this once, maybe twice in the Oath Mirror. Seriously, grabbing three wastelands when your opponent is having trouble finding more Orchards than you is game over.
Combine LftL with Top/Brainstorm, and the Dredging can be kept safe. I will admit however that blind dreging is quite dangerous.
I ran one maindeck and one sideboard, and this was for a metagame where we expected to see a good deal of oath.
The effects of LftL and Crucible are pretty close, it really comes down to play style. In the mirror, I love the demoralizing effect of Loaming three wastelands back to your hand. Makes you feel dirty.
It doesn't seem like much, however in the midgame of the mirror, haveing more than three lands
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
klu
Basic User
Posts: 76
TeaM KI
|
|
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2006, 09:30:31 am » |
|
The biggest advantage of loam on crucible is its perfect interaction with intuition (if you run it). While crucible has no way to be tutored properly, intuition on deep deep life is just a huge play. As it was said, life do not need to be dredged each turn but if it makes you win the game (recursing strip and attacking with some spirit tocken..).
Crucible Costs 3 to get cast and this is really out of the mana curve, drain it and lose the game. life will come back next turn if opponent has some reason to counter it.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"The card that struck me was Merchant Scroll. For UU1 you can find and play Ancestral Recall. I don't know why I thought of it - but it seemed like something I should test. I suggested it to my teammates and they used two Merchant Scrolls..." Smennen
|
|
|
Tha Gunslinga
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 1583
De-Errata Mystical Tutor!
|
|
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2006, 11:13:27 am » |
|
Thing about Crucible is that it's one spell, once. If they counter it, it's gone and you traded 1-for-1. If they counter Life from the Loam, though, you can get it back and they can only counter it so many times before they're out of counters. Yeah, you're skipping draws, but I would happily skip a draw to pull a counter.
I actually haven't bothered with either of those yet, but I'll have to test them and see. I have never had trouble winning the mirror, despite running only 3 strips; it's just fairly easy for me, probably because I've played it so many times.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Don't tolerate splittin'
|
|
|
|
magus888
|
|
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2006, 12:18:39 pm » |
|
Spawning Pit is the shit in the Oath Mirror.l
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Kobolds-clamp is tier 1, right?
|
|
|
Moxlotus
Teh Absolut Ballz
Full Members
Basic User
Posts: 2199
Where the fuck are my pants?
|
|
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2006, 01:24:03 pm » |
|
Spawning Pit is the shit in the Oath Mirror.l
So is using slots that are useless in every single other matchup!!! I have never had trouble winning the mirror, despite running only 3 strips; it's just fairly easy for me, probably because I've played it so many times. I'm going to elaborate on this statement. I agree with Gun. It is so much easier to win when you have played the match so many times. This is a classic example of knowing your deck > what cards are in it. However, what cards are in it is what breaks the tie when the 2 players both have mastered the deck. I must say that I am impressed that I have seen/heard about Gun win so many mirrors with only 3 strips. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: February 03, 2006, 01:31:17 pm by Moxlotus »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
mr_rogers
|
|
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2006, 02:46:02 pm » |
|
It's not that I have trouble with the Oath mirror, it's what happens when they have Tinker--->DSC up before you. I know GWS Oath does not run any bounce main or sb so how do you deal with thier DSC if they have it up before you? Also how do you deal with Orchards supiority if you do not run lftl or crucible?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Team WTF!?!?!............Big multicolored hats rule!
|
|
|
scutakicker
Snakes on the Drain!
Basic User
Posts: 70
|
|
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2006, 01:07:43 pm » |
|
I played a number of mirror matches over the weekend and tested LFTL--amazing. I don't like Crucible because 1) it can be Forced/Leaked/Duressed and then its dead and 2) if I'm casting Tinker I'm most likely going into a DSC while Mystical gives me one extra way to search it out. I only found myself casting it once or perhaps twice in a game--between normal draws and brainstorms that's not much card disadvantage for the effect. What I also found was that siding in 1 Darkblast and having 1 Rushing River (which I maindeck) is great and gives me a lot of versatility in dealing with the particular threats in the mirror.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
--ICBM--
|
|
|
|
