Playing in Toploaders, is it legal?

[Evenpence]

Is it legal to play in 3" by 4" toploaders?  They're your standard size toploader. If all the cards have sleeves AND toploaders, and there are no outstanding markers, would it be legal to play in them?

I ask this, because you can shift all the power to the 'right' side, while keeping all the regular cards to the 'left' side, etc.

What's the book say on it?  I've never read anything about toploaders.

[JACO]

They are 'legal' to play in, as long as they or the sleeves are not marked in any way.

I would not recommend playing with toploaders though, for three reasons.
1) It takes much longer than the allotted time to sufficiently randomize your deck before each game in a match, and with the amount of deck shuffling that goes on in a game (simple in game shuffles and searches are supposed to take approximately 30 seconds), it is not very practical.
2) By playing with a huge stack of toploaders, you increase the change your deck will fall. Revealed cards from a spilt deck usually equals a warning or game loss, depending on your REL for the event.
3) When you play a deck in toploaders, you are announcing you have very valuable cards on hand. When I was at a certain large tournament with fellow BHWC member Nick Trudeau, he had everything on hand besides his deck (which he was playing with) stolen during a match he was playing by some pseudo-professional thieves. Everything was right next to his leg in fact, and he didn't even notice while he was playing. He was playing in toploaders that day, and was targeted by thieves for this very reason. The exact same thing happened to a different old-school player in a later round, who was the only other person in the tournament playing in toploaders that day.

In short, toploaders are legal, but I would highly recommend against using them outside of casual play in your home.

[Juggernaut GO]

I remember as a joke a friend of mine played a 200 card deck in toploaders, of course he worked at a card store and was just really bored during the day and had access to unlimited amounts of toploaders!

[Evenpence]

Thanks Jaco.  That's awesome that you replied to me as quickly as you did. 

Thanks for your advice too, although it might not pertain to me as much as others. 

1)  I play Mega Lock Ubastax, and there are 0 shuffling effects in the build.
2)  I'm careful with my cards (hence the toploaders).
3)  I only bring my deck and VERY little trading stuff with me.

But thank you, I really appreciate your answer and advice.  I have actually never seen someone play with toploaders.  I think it would be hilarious.

But you know what would be more hilarious?  A deck featuring Battle of Wits, 240+ cards in toploaders.

[Khahan]

I ask this, because you can shift all the power to the 'right' side, while keeping all the regular cards to the 'left' side, etc.

While the toploaders themselves are not illegal, setting the cards this way would be and I would not recommend doing it. Somebody will call you on it.

[Moxlotus]

I saw Rich Mazzziuziziozuizozzziozizo (Shockwave) play with them when he unleashed his beastly Dragon at Gencon 02.

[Toad]

I ask this, because you can shift all the power to the 'right' side, while keeping all the regular cards to the 'left' side, etc.

This is cheating.

[Evenpence]

I wasn't saying that shifting them all to the left except for a few wouldn't be cheating.

I was wondering if they were even legal because of the possibility of someone doing this.

[CrashTest]

Yeah, you protect your cards more, but it is riskier due to theft or dropping cards.

         It'd be real pimp though to have a deck all PSA 10, with beta power and everything.

[zeus-online]

Just remember that you must be able to shuffle your deck with no assistance. That might be a little hard to do with toploaders

/Zeus

[Mind_under_Matter]

They're easier to pile shuffle. Just depends on what your head judge's opinion is on sufficiently randomized.

[Toad]

What people call "pile shuffling" is not shuffling. It's just doing cycling permutations.

[vartemis]

how random is this then?

I pile shuffle into 6 equal piles of 10:

1  2  3
4  5  6

I then start with pile 6 and alternately deal it into 2 piles of 5.  Then pick up pile 2 and continue alternately adding to the piles. I then continue with pile 4, 1, 5 and finally 3, in that order.  Now that I have 2 piles of 30 cards, I rifle the 2 piles together, split and rifle a few more times.  I find this helps to break up the clumps from previous games.  I find that even if I have separated my deck for a deck check, this sufficiently "randomizes" it, and distributes mana enough to prevent clumping.

Does this seem decent, or would this be considered weaving?

j

[Evenpence]

There are elaborate methods developed to weave mana that don't look like mana weaving.  I know a friend who can perfectly put his deck into spell/spell/land by riffle shuffling and pile shuffling.

I doubt anyone will call you on it, though.  My friend has never been caught, and luckily I don't know how he does it, or I would.

[JDawg13]

This is why you should always shuffle your opponent's deck before every game and not just cut it.  Most people don't do such things, but it's still good to know that their deck is sufficiently randomized despite whatever they may have done to "shuffle."