Slaver+Gifts Mixed

[unicoerner]

I want to check in this article, where the Slaver and Gifts are similar and perhaps find a way of mixing them together. This should just be an experiment, perhaps it works. I think both decks have their strength and weaknesses which I will list later.

Slaver
Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Artifact Creatures
1 Pentavus
1 Triskelion

Creatures
3 Goblin Welder

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Mana Leak
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Vampiric Tutor

Legendary Artifacts
1 Mindslaver

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Artifact Lands
1 Seat Of The Synod

Basic Lands
3 Island

Lands
1 Flooded Strand
1 Library Of Alexandria
4 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Strength:
Welder to kill Colossus and for a good Stax matchup, strong against any kind of control
Weaknesses: Falls hopelessly to Null Rod and to most types of aggro.


                                        Gifts
Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Pithing Needle
1 Sol Ring

Artifact Creatures
1 Darksteel Colossus

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
3 Gifts Ungiven
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
3 Thirst For Knowledge

Sorceries
1 Burning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Duress
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Recoup
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Basic Lands
2 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
1 Flooded Strand
1 Library Of Alexandria
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Strength: greatest Will of all Decks, fast clock, incredible good tutor effects and with Needle a great hate card main
Weaknesses: The win condition Colossus falls to Welder, Swords and Bounce and it has more problems with graveyard hate than slaver

In Common:
Mana:
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
2 Island
1 Flooded Strand
1 Library Of Alexandria
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Tolarian Academy
Instants:
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Thirst For Knowledge
Sorceries:
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

In total we have in these two lists 46 cards in common. Lets t take this as our new basis for the deck
and simply add the icentralt cards of the two decks.
3 Goblin Welder
1 Mindslaver
1 Pentavus
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Burning Wish
1 Recoup
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Underground Sea        (2 lands missing)
1 Island
1 Rushing River              (resistant to chalice)

What should be improved by this list:
I hope it gets more resistent to Null Rod than Slaver is. It should be saver against Swords and Bounce than Gifts is. Also I would expect from this deck more flexibility and having more surprises.
I tested this deck now a couple of times and I must say it doesn` t work that bad. A move which really helps a lot is gifting, with a welder in game, for Penta + Slaver. I am still not sure whether this deck is worth a try at a tournament or not, but I think with a little bit of work it can be a really interesting deck. I think, this deck is a little bit slower, but more consistent than gifts. I hope that after this process, slavers chances against aggro did improve, cause of tinker colossus. Perhaps it`s better to run one more tutor instead of rushing river, because it often doesn`t get an early Ancestral like gifts. I miss in this new deck some Bouncers or any kind of solution.
I would be interested what you think about this deck.

[Cross]

This has been done a number of times. In fact most neo-slaver lists are a mix of slaver and gifts.

Take for example Demar's "burning slavery", and the GGs, our, gifts list from two Waterburies ago. Even Shay's list has some gifts qualities.

You can find our list in the tournament section, and Demar's and Shay's lists in the slaver thread.

Edit: Not to mention that the original good gifts list, ssb, was what would now be considered a mix of modern gifts and slaver.

[Whatever Works]

This list looks just like SSB... Which currently isnt very good... "mixes" of decks generally dont work great either.

[forests failed you]

Both decks are essentially trying to do the same thing;  Stall three turns, make stupid amounts of Mana, and then do stupid things with the stupid amounts of mana.  Somewhere in the mix instert:  Draw an efficient amount of cards so you can find all the pieces.

Gifts is such a powerful card; and its interaction between finding cards from your deck and putting cards into the yard or the hand is spectacular.  It just makes sense that it would have good synergy in a deck like Slaver that loves to Tutor, loves its yard, and loves cards.

The key is that I don't think you can really have a Gifts/Slaver deck.  I think there are two ways of playing Gifts.  One can either build around it, or it has good enough synergy in a deck that it is includable in a list.  Slaver is not a Gifts based deck.  However, including one Gifts gives you a good tutor target and has proved better in my testing than FOF in the four drop card drawer slot.  On the other hand, Gifts as a deck, is built around abusing Gifts as a card that wins you the game shortly upon resolution.  In Gifts the game plan is almost always to protect, find, and resolve a Gifts Ungiven which wins you the game.  In Slaver Gifts is a card that is in the deck, but not always the primary objective.  For instance, when I draw my opening hand with Slaver I'm not automatically trying to figure out how I can find and resolve a Gifts Ungiven to win the game;  however if it is in my hand or if I have a hand where Gifts would really help me out then I might adopt a Giftsesque gameplan for that particular game.

[Vegeta2711]

Add 2 Gifts and a Recoup to CS and you've 'merged' them.  :lol: In all seriousness though it's just another tutor for the deck and it's not something you build the strategy around typically.

[exit music]

How about you look at the deck more like a Gifts deck with some Slaver components. Goblin Welder would help Gifts deal with things, such as opposing Colossi, you can totally mess with Stax lock parts, remove Null Rods, ect ect. Goblin Welder also allows Gifts to utilize TfK better, assuming you somewhat alter a few cards in the deck. In my opinion, the best card to splash for is Mindslaver itself. Having a MD Slaver in Gifts makes Tinker an even bigger bomb. Combine this with the synnergy of Goblin Welder, and you definitely have an interesting idea.

However, as everyone seems to be saying, Gifts + Welder has definitely been thought of before, although I'm not sure if it has been optimized, or even thoroughly tested. I think that Slaver's weaknesses are very similar to Gifts' weaknesses, which pretty much means that hybridysing the two decks is a little bit counter-intuative. Welders make Pithing Needle a threat, which I really dislike. It also makes you so much more vulnerable to StP; the fact that Gifts is immune to creature hate is a big forte of the deck. I think that a hybrid of these two decks only results a deck that is much less stable than either of the previous two... but if you can make it work, I would be impressed to see a viable decklist.

[Scoops666]

I believe that the merging of the 2 archtypes creates a powerful deck capable of executing multiple different paths to victory. In fact, I've been testing the deck for the last 6 months or so. It's shown promising results. For reference, here's the list I test with:

4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Goblin Welder
3 Gifts Ungiven
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Recoup
1 Burning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mindslaver
1 Triskelion
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Echoing Truth
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Islands
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Strip Mine

And of course a Tendrils in the board.

If nothing else this deck has amazing surprise factor. I've won countless matches by using the Slaver plan game 1 then simply boarding out the Slavery elements in game 2.

[Cross]

However, as everyone seems to be saying, Gifts + Welder has definitely been thought of before, although I'm not sure if it has been optimized, or even thoroughly tested. I think that Slaver's weaknesses are very similar to Gifts' weaknesses, which pretty much means that hybridysing the two decks is a little bit counter-intuative. Welders make Pithing Needle a threat, which I really dislike. It also makes you so much more vulnerable to StP; the fact that Gifts is immune to creature hate is a big forte of the deck. I think that a hybrid of these two decks only results a deck that is much less stable than either of the previous two... but if you can make it work, I would be impressed to see a viable decklist.

Again, this has been done, and it's okay depending on the metagame.

I was second two waterburies ago with this deck, ssb was successful for its time, and Demar's deck has given him success.

This thread does not need to continue, this is nothing new and decklists that are good already exist.

[Gabethebabe]

For reference, here's the list I test with:

1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Strip Mine

This part of your list I find pretty crappy. In the game plan of Slaver and in the game plan of Gifts, Crucible has very few positive to add. With the possibility to win by the Gifts plan, one slaver activation to disrupt your opponent should be good enough. Now you have added three lands that do not tap for U and that looks like a dangerous thing in a Drain-based deck and WILL cause mulligans/game losses. Going down to one of these lands (the one you like best) and replace Crucible with a card that has more synergy with your game plan (e.g. Petal) looks like the way to go IMO.

[forests failed you]

For reference, here's the list I test with:

1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Strip Mine

This part of your list I find pretty crappy. In the game plan of Slaver and in the game plan of Gifts, Crucible has very few positive to add. With the possibility to win by the Gifts plan, one slaver activation to disrupt your opponent should be good enough. Now you have added three lands that do not tap for U and that looks like a dangerous thing in a Drain-based deck and WILL cause mulligans/game losses. Going down to one of these lands (the one you like best) and replace Crucible with a card that has more synergy with your game plan (e.g. Petal) looks like the way to go IMO.

I don't think it is terrible;  all four of these cards have been staples in my Burning Slaver deck for about a month now.

[unicoerner]

For reference, here's the list I test with:

1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Strip Mine

This part of your list I find pretty crappy. In the game plan of Slaver and in the game plan of Gifts, Crucible has very few positive to add. With the possibility to win by the Gifts plan, one slaver activation to disrupt your opponent should be good enough. Now you have added three lands that do not tap for U and that looks like a dangerous thing in a Drain-based deck and WILL cause mulligans/game losses. Going down to one of these lands (the one you like best) and replace Crucible with a card that has more synergy with your game plan (e.g. Petal) looks like the way to go IMO.

I don't think it is terrible; all four of these cards have been staples in my Burning Slaver deck for about a month now.

I played crucible+Strip+artefact land for a while, too, but i think Seat of the Synod is stronger than Citadel. But in this mixed variant is in my oppinion no place for 3 random cards, which are only good when used together. If you cut crucible and the top 2, i would include penta for Trisk, which is in this deck in my oppinion very weak. Gifting for Penta+Slaver with welder in game is game over. But without Penta, but Cruci + Seat this wouldn t work, cause slaver is still missing. But if you play with cruci plz include Gorilla Shaman for keeping your opponent low on lands. In my oppinion 3 welders are enough in such a mixed deck, because even in slaver only 3 see play.

[Cross]

Okay, I just came up with this brand new list, it has insane new tech in it. I calle it super severance belcher.

Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Artifact Creatures
1 Pentavus

Artifact Lands
1 Darksteel Citadel

Creatures
2 Goblin Welder

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain Of Vapor
1 Fact Or Fiction
4 Force Of Will
2 Gifts Ungiven
4 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
4 Thirst For Knowledge

Legendary Artifacts
1 Mindslaver

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Duress
1 Mana Severance
1 Recoup
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Basic Lands
1 Island

Lands
2 Flooded Strand
1 Library Of Alexandria
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
3 Chalice Of The Void
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Rack And Ruin
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rushing River

It can beat like every deck from a year ago, and I think it may be good enough to win a scg p9 event.

Cute, but it's still just spam. Warning.
-Jacob

[forests failed you]

I would consider makig the following changes

Out:

Goblin Charbelcher
Mana Severence
Pentavus
Darksteel Citadel
1 Underground sea
1 Volcanic Island
2 Duress

In:

Flame Fusilide
Time Vault
Darksteel Colossus
3 Basic Island
2 Pithing Needle

These changes would likely improve most of your bad match ups.

[sundering jerk]

Weaknesses: Falls hopelessly to most types of aggro.

Are you faukin crazy?! I'm not even going to begin to tell you what's wrong with this. Here's a hint if you're really having trouble. Echoing truth NEEDS! to be maindeck, and darkblast or fire/ice (I prefer the blast).