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Author Topic: Dark Confidant  (Read 2325 times)
Jawman16
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« on: February 14, 2006, 09:40:30 am »

My opponent is playing U/W fish and has an Aether Vial in play with 2 counters.  It is the beginning of my upkeep.  I have two Dark Confidant's in play. 

The first card I reveal is Chain of Vapor.  My opponent then activates his Vial putting Meddling Mage into play naming Chain.  I argue that I put Chain of Vapor in my hand and therefore can cast it in response to his vial activation on a target already in play.  He says he can act between the revealing and putting of the card into my hand.  Am I correct?  Would not my foe have to have used vial before the Confidant trigger ever resolved and therefore before he even knew that Chain of Vapor was going to be revealed? 

Related topic:  Can I say resolve the 1st Confidant revleaving, say, Vampiric Tutor and then use Vampiric Tutor before the 2nd Confidant triggers?

Side note:  I should know this but if I have an effect that lets me sack mana crypt during my upkeep say Smokestack or Energy Flux, I still have to flip correct? 

Thanks in advance for the answers.
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Harlequin
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2006, 10:25:27 am »

Your upkeep in a nutshell.

ALL Triggers must go on the stack at the begining of your upkeep, before any player gets priority (there is no such thing as a trigger that triggers "durring" your upkeep... all triggers are errated to only happen at the begining).
-The Active player puts his/her triggered abilites on the stack, if its your upkeep, then your the active player.  That player chooses the order of the triggers he/she puts on the stack.
-THEN the non-active player puts all triggered abilites he/she controls on the stack, THAT PLAYER gets to decided the order of his/her abilites.
-- now what happens:  The stack starts to resolved STARTING with the NON-ACTIVE players abilities resolving first.  Players get prioirity before any triggers resolve and inbetween each trigger.

Important note:  Any triggers on the stack stay on the stack until they resolve, or get stiffled.  REGAURDLESS of whether or not the permanent that generated that ability is in play or not.  So if you kill the crypt/oath/confidant/flux etc etc etc... it doesnt matter because the triggers are already on the stack.
(unless the card spesfically says "only if [this card] is in play"  i cant think of any examples... but it might exist)

So Those are the tools you need to know to figure out your 2nd two questions: but the simple answer is "yes" and "yes"

For your first question: no players get priority WHILE an ability is in the process of resolving.  So yes, the card goes into your hand before the player gets priority to tap the vial.  In fact, you have priority first because it is your turn.  So you could cast the chian of vapor before that player even gets a chance to declare that he wants to tap the vial.  However... if you reveal the spell, and pass priority (attempting to resolve the 2nd confidant's ability) and your opponent taps the vial adding the "put a creature into play" ability to the stack... you will have priority before the other player gets to put that creature into play.  If you say... umm ok... and let him reveal the mage, and drop it into play .. that player IMMEDIATELY can name chain of vapor, and it immediatly takes effect - because the nameing ability on mage (and needle) is NOT a triggered ability, and therefore cannot be responded to.
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Harlequin
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2006, 10:29:23 am »

As a side note about putting abilities on the stack.  Be very clear about what you intend to do.  I play oath, so ill use an oath example:  I have a delayed triggered draw from lat-nam's legacy and an oath of druids to put on the stack.  it is ambiguous to say "I put Oath, then Draw 2 on the stack"  Am I putting them on the stack in that order? in wich case they will resolve in the opposite order?? do I intend to resolve them in that order??
I always will say "I stack Oath then Draw as the ORDER OF RESOLUTION" that way there is no confusion on what the stack looks like.

Also If I control oath of druids, and my opponent controls ... say smoke stack.  It is impossible for me to oath first then, saccrifice to the smoke stack.  This is governed by the Active Player / Non-active player rules I listed above.  I must put my oath on the stack BEFORE my opponent puts his Smoke stack sac on the stack (try saying THAT 10 times fast).  His ability will resolve first because of the Last in First out rules of the stack.

Im sure thats more than you bargined for... but teach a man to fish and all.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2006, 10:34:30 am by Harlequin » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2006, 10:31:03 am »

Quote from: Jawman16
My opponent is playing U/W fish and has an Aether Vial in play with 2 counters. It is the beginning of my upkeep. I have two Dark Confidants in play.

The first card I reveal is Chain of Vapor.  My opponent then activates his Vial putting Meddling Mage into play naming Chain.  I argue that I put Chain of Vapor in my hand and therefore can cast it in response to his vial activation on a target already in play.  He says he can act between the revealing and putting of the card into my hand.  Am I correct?  Would not my foe have to have used vial before the Confidant trigger ever resolved and therefore before he even knew that Chain of Vapor was going to be revealed?

Correct. Players can only play abilities or spells when they have priority, and players don't have priority while another ability/spell is resolving. And, as you say, while Vial's ability is on the stack, you can then play Chain of Vapor.

Quote
Related topic:  Can I say resolve the 1st Confidant revealing, say, Vampiric Tutor and then use Vampiric Tutor before the 2nd Confidant triggers?

Not before it triggers, since players don't gain priority to play spells or abilities until after all beginning of upkeep triggers have been checked and placed on the stack. Replace 'triggers' with 'resolves', and the statement would be correct.

Quote
Side note:  I should know this but if I have an effect that lets me sacrifice mana crypt during my upkeep, e.g. Smokestack or Energy Flux, I still have to flip correct?

Correct (barring cards like Stifle, of course).
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Harlequin
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2006, 10:47:24 am »

Even more fun with your upkeep stack:

Energy Flux Reads something like
All artifacts gain "At the begining of your upkeep, pay 2 or sac this artifact"

So any artifact that IS in PLAY at the begining of your upkeep will have the above trigger go on the stack.  Any artifacts that come into play DURRING your upkeep, get this text added as a static effect, BUT do NOT trigger durring THIS upkeep, because the begining of the upkeep already passed.

This is also why you cannot tap orchard durring your upkeep (after you untap it) and sneak the oath trigger on the stack.  Infact you get priority the first time durring the turn AFTER all triggered abilities go on the stack.  Therefore If you do not have less creatures at the begining of your upkeep, then oath never goes on the stack.  Oath checks twice, once at the begining of your upkeep to determin if oath goes on the stack or not, and once when it attempts to resolve.  If the check fails at the begining, it will never go on the stack, if it fails at the end... it simply fails to oath up the creature.  The creature total can do anything between triggering and resolution so long as the check does not fail when the ability resolves.
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