Vintage Avant-Garde Gifts

[onelovemachine]

Most people, if they know me, know me for playing this awful deck: psychatog  , but gifts has been my passion especially for the last few months here in Michigan. The goal was to speed gifts up.  I have tried intuition/ak versions, severance/belcher, versions that look like drain tps or confidant control, Meandeck gifts, flame-vault, and Probasco style control.  I feel that the easiest, most reliable and efficient win condition is tendrils of agony.  Mana drain and gifts ungiven just combo into ten spells, two colorless and two black so well.  But before I discuss more on the win condition and card choices I present to you VAG Gifts Ungiven:

Protection
4Force of Will
4Mana Drail
1Echoing Truth
1Rebuild

Draw/Tutors
4Brainstorm
2Merchant Scroll
2Gifts Ungiven
Recall
Fact or Fiction
Frantic Search
Gush
Demonic
Vampiric
Mystical
Imperial Seal

Win Condition
1Flames Fusillade
1Time Vault
Tinker
1Dsc
1Recoup
Timewalk
Burning Wish
Yawgmoth's Will

Unfair Mana
10 Artifacts
Academy

Fair mana
5Fetch
4Underground Sea
2Volcanic Island
3Island
1Snow-Covered

Necessary Sideboard Cards
1Tendrils of Agony
1Deep Analysis
1Flames Fusillade


Who plays gush and frantic search?
The first thing I would like to discuss is the choice of gush and frantic search.  Gush is absolutely, undeniably amazing in this deck.  Its ability to add storm for free and do cute things with mystical, vamp and seal is one of the reasons this deck is usually faster than the average gifts deck.  I waffled on frantic search for a long time, but after a lot of testing and goldfishing I know that this card is an intricate piece of the puzzle when you are trying to go off.  It is at the very least free in nearly every situation and often nets you mana when Yawgwill-ing for the win since you almost always have academy to untap and infinite artifacts.  Both of these cards can be fetched out with the two merchant scrolls as well.  Merchant scroll was forced down to a two of in this list even though I am a huge supporter of as many as possible in blue control in general but gifts especially.  But sometimes scroll bogs down your hand, when just having a gifts that you would have scrolled for (for instance) is better. 

Even Ben Kowal thinks Imperial Seal is ass.....
Imperial seal makes the list because of your secondary win condition: flame-vault.  In testing I noticed that tormod's crypt is the most obnoxious card possible when trying to tendils out your opponent like you always would have otherwise.  I also noticed that while tinkering up a really fat team Meandeck member is fairly reliable, it isn't always as lethal or as bullet proof a plan as I would have liked.  Not as efficient and graceful as burning wish for tendils.  In testing a third win condition we quickly noticed that flame vault was the strongest third condition to add to the deck.  Flame vault is perhaps the most mana efficient and fastest win condition to set up the deck has, although it is fairly easily disrupted since almost every deck in the format has some form of bounce spell.  Plus it adds a two card instant win combo to the deck giving it outs and wins in situations where it had none before.  Flames is easy to find with the gifts and tutors in the deck but I always had trouble finding time vault before seal made the list. 

Twenty-six Mana and no Library?
Yeah that's right.  If there is one thing I know about gifts it is this:  Gifts is a poweful enough deck that when it has the ability to play any spell off the top, making its land drops every turn and hardcasting four mana sorceries with busted artifacts, it has a fairly easy time winning.  Gifts mana is a mess in general.  Players utilize pithing needle or *scoffs* tundras and sacred grounds  to combat land destruction, but in reality a solid mana base with plenty of basics and fetches is the best way to go.  Gifts always seems to have plenty of colorless mana between drain and artifacts, but sometimes colors are hard to come by.  Library doesn't make the list because it doesn't help cast gifts ungiven, yawgmoth's will, flames fusillade etc. 

How do I play this pile?
Well, it requires a combo mindset from the get go.  Mana drain is very lethal in this deck much like in meandeck gifts because of its combo nature, so drain for drain mana not to counter spells.  Mana drain ftw isn't always the correct plan of action though.  Much of the time you play out the combo role as you aggressively, but not recklessly, cast your bombs and draw spells.  To be perfectly honest this is the hardest of the gifts lists I have every tested or built.  It has a plethora of options while going off and only testing can tell you which routes are correct in any given situation.  But one thing to remember is not go give up when it looks like your down and out, and think hard about all of the card interactions in the deck when it looks like your just short of going off. 

Well I hope you enjoyed this and I hope I get time to come back and write more about it.  Been to busy lately drinking Jack Daniel's and smoking bowls with Demars and Minore....

P.S. Jeff Anand, as soon as your buddy pops your cherry get out to Michigan and we'll smoke you out fat.

[Moxlotus]

Well, I might as well ask the obvious questions:

Do you really need 3 win conditons?

Do you find your opening hand clogged with win conditions too much?

[PacmanXSA]

To my dearest Mr. Franklin,

I am sorry for the loss of your hot girlfriend, however I must comment on your current build of giflts.  As you all know from the last tourney, I have picked up gifts as well.  At the tourney I played the two standard win conditions with a transformational side (which blows btw) and have found that subbing in Fusillade combo over the tendrils was superior.  I have not really tested both, but I don't think that it's really necessary, at least off the top of my head.  I will certainly test it, but I don't know where I could possibly find room for the Wish. 

Finally, given our control heavy meta, I am shocked to see you drop LoA.  I think it's an essential part of the gameplan against similar drain based decks.

As far as MD needles go, I am still unsure as to how good they generally are.

At least 4 MD tutors are necessary to play Flame Vault.  Gifting for 4 tutors is the tech!!!!

You're gonna need to put Demars down for a sec so that we can properly test these builds

Pac

[Rapalaman1]

I'd have to agree with MoxLotus on this one, it seems like there are way too many cards that you would not want to see in your opening hand in the deck.

It also seems to me that you would have a tough time against other blue based control decks due to the lack of draw. Granted you rely more on your tutors and gifts to get you to where you need to go, but every other mana drain deck out there at least plays some other draw engine other than Brainstorm/Shuffle that would be able to easily outdraw you. It would seem like ForceFieldYou would agree (assuming he, as your teammate, helped with input on the deck) :

" Card advantage is found via resolving blue cards.  So most likely, the person who resolves the most blue cards the fastest will usually get to resolve the one black card first."

[onelovemachine]

Moxlotus:
To be perfectly honest, I actually think that the three win conditions are necessary for the reason that it gives you options.  Gifts can set up a tendrils kill with will, a time vault flames win or even a tinker beatdown with timewalk.  That allows you to not get hosed in specific situations.  For instance, all the u/w fish builds in Michigan play stormscape apprenctice maindeck which is really obnoxious when you are holding tinker in hand... except that tinker can find time vault and the rest of your deck can find flames giving you the ability to combo out where there wouldn't have otherwise been a route to victory.  Another example with the same fish deck and their challices: you can easily time vault combo through a challice 0 but not necessarily tendrils kill or tinker.   I found that burning wish is the best, most reliable and easiest kill method.  Aside from that, tinkering up dsc and utilizing timewalk- a card already in your deck that doesn't really utilize extra slots for win condition- seemed good with the ability to randomly fag your opponent as well as be a reliable win condition in the face of hate.  Now the problem is that in actuality, most decks in vintage actually have ways to deal with both of those kill scenarios.  Adding a third option just gave the deck stability and speed.  A two card instant win combo has to be worth playing in a drain combo deck.

[Yawgmoths_Dummy]

Library doesn't make the list because it doesn't help cast gifts ungiven, yawgmoth's will, flames fusillade etc.

While Library doesn't accelerate casting any of the above, it does produce mana, so technically it will help cast them. I still say Library is essential in winning the mirror. Although intelligent play and patience may make it unnecessary.

What is the average turn you go off with this version?
Is 2 Gifts Ungiven enough? Do you ever feel like anything else should be Gifts?
Seems like Null Rod + Chalice 0 would really hurt this deck. Although Kowal won w/o any main deck bounce in NY. Have you tested vs decks with Null Rod/ Needle?

I really like the Burning Wish plan. I imagine Echoing Ruin will be an auto-inclusion in the Board.

[MoxMonkey]

I'd think about dropping the Sea's down to 3 for a LOA.  I have never seen a Tendrils Casted off Lands unless it was mainboard you gifts for the will which involves Black lotus which gets you double black and grabbing Jet gives yo ua second black when needed.

[GrizzledVeteran]

Franklin, I'm glad you decided to drag yourself out of your smoke-filled room to finally post the deck.

Library doesn't make the list because it doesn't help cast gifts ungiven, yawgmoth's will, flames fusillade etc.

While Library doesn't accelerate casting any of the above, it does produce mana, so technically it will help cast them. I still say Library is essential in winning the mirror. Although intelligent play and patience may make it unnecessary.

What is the average turn you go off with this version?
Is 2 Gifts Ungiven enough? Do you ever feel like anything else should be Gifts?
Seems like Null Rod + Chalice 0 would really hurt this deck. Although Kowal won w/o any main deck bounce in NY. Have you tested vs decks with Null Rod/ Needle?

I really like the Burning Wish plan. I imagine Echoing Ruin will be an auto-inclusion in the Board.

While LoA is indeed a house, it's just a bit ineffective in this deck. All VAG Gifts wants to do is combo out now, and it really wants the black mana to cast your tutors and Will, and eventually Tendrils. You want to kill so fast that the one or two cards that you might be able to draw off Library is completely moot. It's much more beneficial to drop a Sea/Volc/Island and cast busted blue spells, that will draw you far more cards.

2 Gifts is defeinetely sufficient. Generally, if you resolve it once, you win. There's not really a need to clutter the deck up with more Force of Will fodder.

While Null Rod and Chalice 0 aren't at all very friendly to the deck, there are plenty of ways around them. For one, the maindeck E.Truth + Rebuild are a little bit of a house, along with infy tutors to get them. B.Wish gets Echoing Ruin. If all else fails, there's still two 1 mana artifacts that can be Tinkered into a Fat Guy.

I'd think about dropping the Sea's down to 3 for a LOA.  I have never seen a Tendrils Casted off Lands unless it was mainboard you gifts for the will which involves Black lotus which gets you double black and grabbing Jet gives yo ua second black when needed.

It's not necessarily just the black mana that's important. It's the blue / getting to double blue. Colorless mana doesn't cast Recall or Mana Drain, and LoA can't be Gushed back to your hand. On top of that, you want to be playing your spells, not holding them all back in your hand to keep your LoA active.



On an unrelated note, I think we scared off the Colorado guys... I was really looking forward to out-partying them too... Oh well, I guess it's for the better. We wouldn't want to hurt em too bad 

Anand, you totally need to come out to MI and get wrecked with me, Brian, and Franklin.

[PucktheCat]

You have two cards in the deck, Gush and Frantic Search, that you justify mainly by their usefulness when you are comboing out.  I am sure these cards are very good on your Yawg. Will turn, but is that enough?  I wouldn't expect you to lose many games after you Yawg. Will, so cards that are there mainly to make Will stronger seem weak.

Your mana base seems strange to me.  You talk about running plenty of basics and fetches, but you run a total of 9 non-wasteable lands and 7 wasteable.  That is the lowest number of non-wasteable lands I have seen in a Gifts deck in a long time and the highest number of wasteable as well.  I see no reason why two of the duals couldn't just become fetches.

[Cross]

Besides gifts, fof and ancestral, it doesn't look there's any way in here to generate card advantage. How do you deal with other decks that have strong draw engines like control slaver and GG gifts?

I really question dropping library. Library exists even in fast decks, like confidant combo and GG gifts. It's also like the best thing you could drop first turn against any control deck. Even if you only net like two cards off it, it's two free cards that you would not otherwise have. I think this is multiplied, as you're running gush and frantic search, both of which have good synergy with library.

[Lou]

I think that Gush will be a beating in this deck, and I have wanted to test it out myself.  I like the idea of Frantic Search as well, especially after a Gifts if you put Academy in the yard and you are casting Yawgmoth's Will.

I think a lot of the comments being made about a lack of draw engine are kind of off base.  Merchant Scroll for Ancestral, even though you are only running two, and I would up that count somehow (cough* take out Flame/Vault *cough), is a very fine draw engine.  It is card quality here, not quantity.  Don't forget that he also runs Gush, Fact or Fiction, and all those tutors.

Nice list though, and you have given me some stuff to think about.

On an unrelated note, I think we scared off the Colorado guys... I was really looking forward to out-partying them too... Oh well, I guess it's for the better. We wouldn't want to hurt em too bad 

To all the VAGs out there:  You have no chance of out-partying us.  We live in the mountains, where the air is thin.  Even our weakest drinker or smoker will be on par with you guys at sea level.  I assure you, we aren't scurred, and when we do get together, I will show you guys how to smoke like a knucklehead.  It's on!

[onelovemachine]

I think that the idea of a "draw engine" in gifts is pretty much unnecessary.  Instead of outdrawing slaver, try outcomboing them and see what happens.  Meandeck Gifts never actually sported any form of draw engine at all besides merchant scrolls and brainstorms.  It comboed out well though.  Gifts has remained only a two of because multiples are generally clunky. 

[Smmenen]

I think that misunderstands how Meandeck Gifts works....

[Komatteru]

The only thing I have to say is: 4 Underground Sea?  Meandeck Gifts was just as reliant on black mana, and it only ran 2 Seas, so I think you could definitely get away with 2 Islands (or another fetch) in those spots.

The thing that really levels the playing field for Gifts against Stax is the fact that Gifts has infinite basic lands and Stax should never ever get to use Wasteland.  I can't tell you how many times I've sat there with Crucible Wasteland against a board full of Island.

[PacmanXSA]

I think that the idea of a "draw engine" in gifts is pretty much unnecessary.  Instead of outdrawing slaver, try outcomboing them and see what happens.  Meandeck Gifts never actually sported any form of draw engine at all besides merchant scrolls and brainstorms.  It comboed out well though.  Gifts has remained only a two of because multiples are generally clunky. 

Wasn't Meandeck Gifts main plan to Scroll for Recall and then cast gifts?  I believe THAT was the card advantage plan Joshy!

Pac

[Whatever Works]

Personally I find this gifts list to just be incredibly clunky! The 4 Underground seas are incredibly unnessary, and getting 2x black can be done a billion ways including even through frantic search. This list desires to have tolarian around more then other lists, and that just isnt something you can count on.

Also, I keep reading that 3 kill conditions are better with will etc. However, dont you just win if you cast will??? I know that meandeck gifts which ran just tinker/burning wish... Never ever ever had a problem going off with just 2, and often could consistently do both kills off a will if it wanted to, but that would just be mean.

Kyle L

[exit music]

I think that the idea of a "draw engine" in gifts is pretty much unnecessary.  Instead of outdrawing slaver, try outcomboing them and see what happens.

I can think of a few things that would happen if you try to combo out Slaver before outdrawing them:

1: They have outdrawn you, so they counter every relevant spell you cast, buying them enough time to activate Mindslaver (this will happen most often)
2: They Weld out your DSC
3: They Rack and Ruin/Bounce your Time Vault in response to the Flame Fusillade

You don't have enough counters to just rely on comboing out your opponent. I think this build would do a really good job at racing other builds of Gifts, but against pretty much any other deck in T1, you seem to be dead in the water. Frantic Search and Gush seem cute and I will agree that after casting Yawgmoth's Will, they are great - you are golden, even. Although the same argument applies to every card in your deck... you know, since the deck is designed to win with Yawgmoth's Will. The goal of your deck should not be to assemble a 2 card combo (either Flame/Vault, Gifts/Will or Time Walk/Tinker). Instead you should focus on getting to the point where winning with your 2 card combo is almost redundant because you are so far ahead in board/hand development. This goal negates the neccessity of a 3rd win condition, which frees up room in your MD for cards that get you to the point where winning is easy.

[Liam-K]

The goal of your deck should not be to assemble a 2 card combo (either Flame/Vault, Gifts/Will or Time Walk/Tinker). Instead you should focus on getting to the point where winning with your 2 card combo is almost redundant because you are so far ahead in board/hand development. This goal negates the neccessity of a 3rd win condition, which frees up room in your MD for cards that get you to the point where winning is easy.

QFT.  I'll link you to my post about win conditions and how to treat them in deck construction.  This deck wants to win by going yawgwill everywhere from a safe place.  The amount of cards that are dead before "stage 2" in your deck is just too high.  4 Seas is also a serious question mark.

Frantic Search and Gush probably work well in this style of deck, I will test them in a homebrew jank list I have on the backburner.

[forests failed you]

This specific list is a prime example of card quality over card quantity.  This list has infinate tutoring capability that ensures you always find the busted cards before your opponent and have force of will back up.  THe only problem is that it gets raped really hard by Duress. 

[monSt4r]

This specific list is a prime example of card quality over card quantity.  This list has infinate tutoring capability that ensures you always find the busted cards before your opponent and have force of will back up.  THe only problem is that it gets raped really hard by Duress. 

This I think is the harsh truth...I don't play lots of tournaments (or any, cause there are non to be seen), but in theory I really like MG, it's approach and power. This deck is very similar, so back on track, it has the same weak point. I played MG against Sui (nvm the deck-its weak, just using the duress in it as an example), and that duress really knocks your balls out. I mean, if you have a strong looking start with possibly turn 2 gifts or some, that duress goes berserk on your ass, and without any hard draw, you are very reliant on that topdeck-and that is a bad thing to do(if you are not a lucky person atm). Afcourse MG need's more testing in my case with real players, but so far, duress hit is a hard thing for you to take.
I tried -4 merchant/-4 gifts/-burning wish for 4Ak/4Intuition/tendrils (MG base)...It's just fun to play, and it kinda feels strong cause of all the drawn power...and intuition for recoup, will, 3rd card is all u need after Aking... maybe AK is returning cause people would like to draw cards again, and TFK is lame, or maybe cause it is strong atm...looking at the waterbury everyone was looking at the 1 tog and 1 dryad...top16 consists of 3 Drain TPS decks (i don't know about you, but I would still call it toggy tog)...

Gotta go fast so maybe I edit the post with some more thoughts