[Deck] U/G Fish <---HELP!

[chewy01234]

Creatures
4 Hidden Guerillas (kind of creatures)
4 Ninja of the Deep hours
4 Cloud of Faires
4 Quiron Dryad <---needs to come out

Draw
1 Ancestral
4 Brainstorm
2 Syrum Visions

Counter
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

Other Spells
2 Oxidize
1 Time Walk

Artifact
3 Aether Vial <---needs to come out
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus

Land
4 Mishras factory
4 Tropical Island
4 Fetch
1 Forest
7 Islands

Sideboard
2 Arcane lab
4 Dandan
2 Control Magic
3 energy flux
2 Null rod


Hidden Guerillas- They dont work well with ninja but drop one turn one and you're almost always garunteed a 5/3 soon after. If you end up playing someone who can get around them you side in the 4 dandans. I have encountered a few people playing neither artifacts nor blue buts its very rare.

cloud of fairies- great with aether vial, awesome to get ninja out then play them for free. awesome synergy.

quiron dryad- this card is definentley debateable. The one reason i like it is because i play alot of spells and people think im playing a quiron dryad deck so they focus their attwention on getting it out meanwhile it doesnt phase me too much.

ancestral brainstrom syrum - i dont like paying more than 1 for drawing especially since i have ninjas. I usually dont have extra mana.

force / daze- i def. dont like keeping mana open, i usually tap out exactly every turn for about the first 4.

oxidize- artifact heavy meta

aether vial- set it to 2 for quiron and cloud of faires, awesome when i have 2 lands because i can ninja a cloud of fairies and then aether vial them into play untap my two lands and then cast something else or get ready for the hard cast daze.

so thats it. It's very experimental, I was thinking I might need a one drop to help out the ninjas more, cos i really cant bounce hidden and i would hate to bounce a quiron dryad with counters on it. so i would like to take out the quirons but I dont know maybe they rule. they usually only get to be 4/4 or 5/5.

i was obviously wondering everyones opinion on it. has this been done before? if yes ive never heard of it so that would imply it sux? anyway, let me know.

[Nastaboi]

Your deck has some awesome dissynergy, of which you already mentioned some. Cloud only untaps lands if played from hand, so Vial tricks you mentioned doesn't work. Vial as whole don't do much for your deck, you have no creatures you really want to bounce for a ninja and you have too few cantrips to reliably make Quirion Dryad a threat.

I suggest you to search for some Threshold decklist. They work kinda same way the only difference being that they DO work.

[chewy01234]

o i guess they errated it without telling me lol.

but yeah i never liked the deck in and of itself i just needed to no what was the worst parts of it. I dont want to make threshold at all though, i see how they are similar but im not interested in it. I am however interested in making this thing work.

Since the aether vial business is no longer a factor they are out, i think i will also take out the dryads. I need some new creatures to add to the mix. I am thinking maybe spiketail or something green. I really want a one drop in quirons spot though for easy bounce with the ninja.

anybody have any ideas to make THIS deck playable? or is it not even worth it. Think about it please before you say im an idiot. While it is true that I am, you dont have to say it out loud. heh.

[Harlequin]

Fish needs to be a bit more threatening than just creatures.  Here are a few suggestions to make your deck more "Fishy"

Aether Vial:  Vial offers 3 things: un-counterable, Instant speed, and Tempo adjustment (not accelleration as some would say).  your deck does not gain anything from the ability to instant a creature into play and catch an opponent off guard.  Also your tempo is realatively quick, so Vial might be infact slowing you down.
Result: -3 Vials

Hidden Guerillas / Dandan:  Not bad ... but fish can do better:
-4 Hidden Guerillas
-4 SB Dandan

Syrum Vision?  This is Type1! lets see if we can find a better fit for that slot
-2 Syrum Vision

Brainstorm:  with only 4 shuffle effects, brainstorm is just a glorified Sensei's top that you can pitch to FOW.  I would advise against this card in a deck that cannot really abuse this card with shuffle effects.
-4 Brainstrom

Cloud of Faries: Well we cut the vials, and we cut the brainstorms ... we need a 1 drop creature so we can start Ninjaing early.  Even though this creature is technically "free" lets see if we can find a one drop creature for this slot.
-4 Cloud of Faries

Ok we've trimmed the fat, now lets fill out the deck:
Creatures: 8 Slots open
Draw: 6 Slots open
Other: 3 Slopts open

Creatures - 8 open slots
I would definately go 4 flying men, this creature is an amazing 1 drop and has great synergy with ninja.
for the last 4 slots I would say some combination of Wild Mongrels and Gaea's Skyfolk... Probably 2 and 2.
You might be able to get away with running your cloud faries in this slot as well.  But if you have the 2 mana I think the 2/2 flying Skyfolk is better than the 1/1 faries (esp because you already have flying men).

As for draw
I would highly suggest 3 Curiosity.  This will give another way to get ninja-eque raw drawing power, and has fantastic synergy with flying men as well as any other flyers in your deck.  
The last 3 slots are open to debate.  If you included even 2 wild mongrels, then Gush is an automatic inclusion.  even if your not running mongrels gush is rather insane.  Gush + Frantic Search can be tech as well... But Frantic search in this type of deck can end up costing you more games than it will win you.
haveing 4 ninjas and 3 curiositys is rather insane for draw, so you can afford to get away with running 3 cantriping tempo cards.  Some choices might be:
Shadow of Doubt, Disrupt, Insist, (bind - Dont pick bind).
Mystical tutor can be good as well in this slot.  Esp if your running Gush.

As for 3 other cards, I would highly suggest 3 stifles.  This is an extremely power card in vintage and fits exactly within the tempo of fish.  Keep inmind that your only trying to prevent your opponent from winning for a few turns so you can deal your 20 damage.  You do not need to lock out your opponent (like stax does), so one well placed stifle will generally stall the game for a few turns.

A word on library of Alexandria.  I would try and get it in the deck.  Esp if your going to be working with curiosity, ninjas, and cards like gush and daze.  This will provide an extra edge to power up your dryads and it will also amplify your ninjas and curious flying men.

I will leave it up to you to pick the cards you want to cut and include in the deck, So good luck in design.  If you decide to make any changes post em up and see what the community thinks.

[[supa_t(im)]]

You could try Orlove's WTF.  With mongrel + rootwalla, chalices, and jittes.

You definitely need to pick either a null rod or chalice based Fish deck.  Once you figured that out you can begin adding other disruption and support cards.  The classic example is that aether vial goes with chalice so that you don't screw yourself.  Chalice means you run more creatures, and (in my experience) null rod means you run a couple more disruption spells.  Either way, null rod or chalice needs to be maindeck.

I think the hidden stuff needs to come out.  That leaves room for mongrel and rootwalla, which are fairly aggressive.

4 Daze is too many, 2-3 should work.  Stifle could be a good replacement for a couple of them.  Stifle is awesome in Fish decks.  I don't think you need the 2 serums visions either.  The ninjas and brainstorms should get you what you need.  That leaves more room for disruption.  Although curiosity is good, I've found I like brainstorm in the deck (even with low fetches) because you can use it when you need it to dig out that FoW or whatever, and not have to rely on your creatures as much.

Finally, add some strip effects.  They are a staple in Fish decks for a good reason.

Harlequin has some good ideas.

Hope this helped.

[god_of_war]

"oxidize- artifact heavy meta"


if that's the case i would run the null rod main board and take out the aether vial. you should also run some sort of bounce so as to cope with whatever spells you couldn't counter.

strip effects like strip mine and wasteland are a MUST.  playing fish means relying on utility cards and a whole lotta tempo advantage.

running curiosity is kinda debatable but if your meta isn't aggro-dense then it would be a house. try to put in standstill since it creates a virtual lock with a mishra's factory out.

just my 2 cents