Harbringer of Forture

[jeek]

Harbringer of Fortune

Creature - Goblin Wizard
When ~this~ comes into play, discard your hand and draw seven cards.
When ~this~ comes into play, you lose the game.
1/1

I like the idea of this card, it's just going to be tricky to get the power/cost right.

Wow, this has changed quite a bit.

Last Resort

Instant
Discard your hand, draw 7 cards, then remove your library and graveyard from the game.

[Anusien]

Err.... Yuck.  This is a card that only provides degenerate draws and more luck-based plays.  I can't imagine it ever being balanced; it will either suck or be a ridiculous bomb, and I don't think I can actually ever take it seriously.

Edit: Double post fixed.

[jeek]

Err.... Yuck.  This is a card that only provides degenerate draws and more luck-based plays.  I can't imagine it ever being balanced; it will either suck or be a ridiculous bomb, and I don't think I can actually ever take it seriously.

Well, red IS the color of chaos. I was going for a Final Fortune-type feel.

[Jacob Orlove]

First of all, why is this a goblin? For some reason, that's the default red creature type, when it's actually a huge mechanical advantage to the card.

Second, 7 cards is much, much better than an extra turn.

Third, instant death makes this insanely narrow. Sure, there are immediately obvious "combos" like stifle and fireblast, but there are really no clever ways to abuse this card. Leveler is a good example of a fair card with a huge drawback. This isn't.

[jeek]

First of all, why is this a goblin? For some reason, that's the default red creature type, when it's actually a huge mechanical advantage to the card.

The flavor I had in mind when I came up with this involved a Goblin Wizard trying something out and completely and utterly demolishing that side of the planet. Oops.

Second, 7 cards is much, much better than an extra turn.

Third, instant death makes this insanely narrow. Sure, there are immediately obvious "combos" like stifle and fireblast, but there are really no clever ways to abuse this card. Leveler is a good example of a fair card with a huge drawback. This isn't.

I wasn't thinking of it in terms of some combo (although Stifle did come up as I looked at it), I was thinking of it in terms of a last-ditch effort for a red deck to draw some extra burn to finish off the opponent.

Well, I'm going to give it a day or two, and if no one comes out in support of the card or thinks it can be adjusted to something reasonable, I guess I'll forget about it.

[Jacob Orlove]

Oh, I think it can be adjusted. For example:

Harbringer of Fortune
1 {R}
Creature - Elemental Wizard
When ~this~ comes into play, sacrifice all other permanents you control and discard your hand.
When ~this~ comes into play, draw seven cards.
2/1

[jeek]

Oh, I think it can be adjusted. For example:


Harbringer of Fortune
1 {R}
Creature - Elemental Wizard
When ~this~ comes into play, sacrifice all other permanents you control and discard your hand.
When ~this~ comes into play, draw seven cards.
2/1

Hrm... what about...

Harbringer of Fortune
1{R}{R}
Creature - Elemental Wizard
As an additional cost to play ~this~, sacrifice all nonland permanents you control.
When ~this~ comes into play, discard your hand and draw seven cards.
2/1

[LordHomerCat]

So, its basically another Draw7 for combo, except your opponent doesn't get new cards, and you have to sacrifice all your artifacts and such so you can replay them all to Will?  Seems like its pretty terrible in normal formats (Resetting your side of the game for a 2/1 against your opponent's developed board seems pretty awful), and is a one-sided draw 7 for storm combo decks?  I just don't like it, heck, it would give a reason to run red and possibly Desperate Ritual and/or Seething Song in storm.

[CF]

How about drawing just a few cards, say 2-3 and in -addition- you get to look through your opponent's hand and deck while keeping the "lose the game" trigger. That way it's a last ditch effort to find burn, but if you don't succeed you at least get some information out of him for the next game - potentially very useful if lose the 2nd game.

--
Chris

[dandan]

Harbringer of Fortune
1{R}
Creature - Elemental Wizard
As an additional cost to play ~this~, sacrifice all nonland permanents you control.
When ~this~ comes into play, discard your hand and draw X cards where X is the number of permanents you sacrificed to ~this~
2/1

(fun with tokens)

Even Storm combo doesn't usually have 7 non-land permanents in play if it hasn't already won.

[Grimmshaw]

What about something a bit more balanced.

Chaos Elemental
RR
Creature - Elemental
Whenever ~this~ comes into play or goes to the graveyard from play, flip a coin. If you win the flip, flip another coin; otherwise an opponent chosen at random flips a coin. If the result of that flip is heads, that player discards his or her hand and draws seven cards; if the result is tails, he or she takes another turn after this one.
2/1

[dandan]

Hmmm a 2/1 for 2 mana with a 50% chance of drawing 7 new cards and it fills the graveyard or you get a Time Walk?

And that's something a bit more balanced?

[vartemis]

Harbringer of Fortune
1
Creature- Elemental Wizard

You may choose to play ~this~ as an instant.
As an addition cost to play this remove your hand and graveyard from the game.
When ~this~ comes into play, draw 7 cards.
At the end of this turn, you lose the game.

1/1

[LordHomerCat]

Why is that a creature?  And who would play that on their opponent's turn, only to lose the game at the end of said turn?  It seems like a creature (for whatever reason, even though its basically a spell anyway and there's no non-flavor reason to make it a creature) in your suggestion is just dumb, you might as well just make it an instant spell OR remove that part.  Still, I thought that the idea of making cards that are either completely awful or just plain broken, with no fair use possible in between there, was not the goal of this forum?  I don't see a way that this guy can be anything but too good or too awful.

[Jacob Orlove]

I think the only real problem with my initial suggestion is that it was undercosted. Something like:

Harbringer of Fortune
3 {R}
Creature - Elemental Wizard
When ~this~ comes into play, sacrifice all other permanents you control and discard your hand.
When ~this~ comes into play, draw seven cards.
2/1

Would be much more balanced, although I could see arguments for 1

[vartemis]

Why is that a creature?  And who would play that on their opponent's turn, only to lose the game at the end of said turn?  It seems like a creature (for whatever reason, even though its basically a spell anyway and there's no non-flavor reason to make it a creature) in your suggestion is just dumb, you might as well just make it an instant spell OR remove that part.  Still, I thought that the idea of making cards that are either completely awful or just plain broken, with no fair use possible in between there, was not the goal of this forum?  I don't see a way that this guy can be anything but too good or too awful.

I left him as a creature because that how it was initially designed.  I would prefer to just have it as an instant.  Most likely at .  I was trying to stay as true to jeek's original idea as possible.  I added the instant to allow it to be cast during your opponent't turn in response to something killing you.  It gives you a quick one-shot to try and save your ass; i.e. opponent swings for lethal, cast this and hope you draw into some type of win condition.

If I could redesign the card entirely, it would be this:

~name~
{R}{R}
Instant
As an addition cost to play this, remove your hand and graveyard from the game.
Draw 7 cards and remove your library from the game.
At the end of this turn, you lose the game.

OR

~name~
{R}{R}
Sorcery

You may play ~this~ as an instant.  If you do, you loose the game at the end of this turn.
Set your hand aside Face down.
Draw 7 cards.
At the end of turn, remove your hand and graveyard from the game and return the cards set aside by ~this~ to your hand.



Is that any better?

j

[Guardian]

This card, apart from being a red creature, is a lots like this card from the Master List:

Kaervek's Scorn
BBB
Sorcery
As an additionnal cost to play Kaervek's Scorn, sacrifice all permanents you control and discard your hand.
Draw 7 cards.
The living don't understand the true meaning of sacrifice. -Kaervek

[jeek]

If I could redesign the card entirely, it would be this:

~name~
{R}{R}
Instant
As an additional cost to play this, remove your hand and graveyard from the game.
Draw 7 cards and remove your library from the game.
At the end of this turn, you lose the game.

This is pretty much what I came up with while mulling the issue over at the bar last night, minus the RFGing the hand and graveyard part. I had "Discard your hand, draw 7 cards, and then remove your library from the game." I didn't bother with EOT game loss because the next draw step would be fatal anyways.

Last Resort
{R}
Instant
Discard your hand, draw 7 cards, then remove your library and graveyard from the game.

[PucktheCat]

I really like the elegence of removing the library as a solution to combo using this.  I'm not sure how much it matters in other formats, but in T1 it moves this from potentially broken to probably not that good but still interesting in the right deck.

[Grimmshaw]

Hmmm a 2/1 for 2 mana with a 50% chance of drawing 7 new cards and it fills the graveyard or you get a Time Walk?

And that's something a bit more balanced?

And if you lose the first flip, an opponent gets the draw 7 or the Time Walk.

[Jacob Orlove]

I really like the rfg library aspect, although we don't want to be too much like leveler.

[dandan]

Hmmm a 2/1 for 2 mana with a 50% chance of drawing 7 new cards and it fills the graveyard or you get a Time Walk?
And that's something a bit more balanced?

And if you lose the first flip, an opponent gets the draw 7 or the Time Walk.

I mentioned that there was a 50% chance of the draw 7 or Time Walk affecting you.

In any case a 2cc Red creature shouldn't have Time Walk or Wheel of Fortune effects.

[jeek]

Last Resort
{R}
Instant
Discard your hand, draw 7 cards, then remove your library and graveyard from the game.

24 hour clock on this wording

[jeek]

Gave this a 24-hour clock, but it never ended up in the master list or being shot down..