Goblin Philosopher

[magus888]

Goblin Philosopher 1R
Creature- Goblin
Haste
All creatures gain Echo.
2/1


Current Wording:

Goblin Philosopher 1R
Creature- Goblin
Haste
All creatures gain Echo.
2/1

Alternative Current Wording:

Goblin Philosopher U or R (guild mana)
Creature- Goblin Wizard
Whenever a creature comes into play, that creature gains echo.
1/1

[Manpriest]

I like the idea, my first thought was why make this 1R?  I'm thinking it's fairly priced at just 'R' since you're going to most likely be playing it alongside other creatures it seems fair.  I guess there is the possibility that this could play a role as an anti-aggro card, but I just don't see it.  Just my thoughts.

[asmoranomardicodais]

Problem is, this seems like a blue or a white ability. Playing this after someone taps out to play their craw wurm basically earns you a time walk or a dead craw wurm, which is less red and more the control colors. Otherwise, I like the card a lot. Maybe make it UR?

[Ephraim]

Problem is, this seems like a blue or a white ability. Playing this after someone taps out to play their craw wurm basically earns you a time walk or a dead craw wurm, which is less red and more the control colors. Otherwise, I like the card a lot. Maybe make it UR?

This problem could be negated by making the ability "Whenever a creature comes into play, that creature gains echo."  That way, playing it after a creature is already down doesn't time walk and it also makes you suffer from the penalty first.  I don't know how much I like this card, though.  No matter how you slice it, it feels like a really amazing tool for a control deck (typically weak against aggresive strategies) to hose creature decks.  Making it blue/whote only makes it more disagreeable alongside something like Propaganda/Ghostly Prison.  Unfortunately, I'm forced to agree that this probably is a white card (It feels a lot like Kismet to me.)  If you go ahead with this, I suggest the wording I gave above.  I just wanted to note that I'm not crazy about this card.

[Norm4eva]

In general I don't care much for cards that deal with 'actual' set keywords; designing a creature with trample is one thing, but shaodw or echo or affinity is another.  I read somewhere on this board that we should keep Type 2 in mind when building, thus giving us similar parameters as the actual R&D department; how does this card deal in any way, shape or form with the current face of Standard? 

[The Atog Lord]

Not to take this in too different a direction, but how about something like this:

R
Creature- Goblin
Haste
Other creatures you control have Echo.
2/1

Red is always looking for fun and exciting ways to make a Jackal Pup clone that is playable but not overpowered. This particular ability, if made into a one-sided effect and therefore a drawback, might be interesting. Just an idea.

[magus888]

Not to take this in too different a direction, but how about something like this:

R
Creature- Goblin
Haste
Other creatures you control have Echo.
2/1

Red is always looking for fun and exciting ways to make a Jackal Pup clone that is playable but not overpowered. This particular ability, if made into a one-sided effect and therefore a drawback, might be interesting. Just an idea.

I like this idea, but it's a totally different card.

[Manpriest]

Not to take this in too different a direction, but how about something like this:

R
Creature- Goblin
Haste
Other creatures you control have Echo.
2/1

Red is always looking for fun and exciting ways to make a Jackal Pup clone that is playable but not overpowered. This particular ability, if made into a one-sided effect and therefore a drawback, might be interesting. Just an idea.

I like this idea, but it's a totally different card.

But seems a lot more realistic.  I like the original idea, but it seems like a long road to make it fit aggro styles only and not just another tool for a control deck.

[asmoranomardicodais]

What is wrong with making cards for control decks? Everyone keeps saying that they don't like this card because its hurts aggro. Boo freakin Hoo. I love this card, I love how it shuts down aggro decks, and I think control needs a powerful way to deal with swarm strategies, espcially the way wizards has been recently been powering down control. I just don't think the colors are right here, I think this ability belongs in a different color. But I do think this is a cool card with interesting application.

[magus888]

What color? Blue or white?

I don't think blue would be realistic color choice seeing how wotc is trying its best not to print any control bombs for blue.

[Ephraim]

In general I don't care much for cards that deal with 'actual' set keywords; designing a creature with trample is one thing, but shaodw or echo or affinity is another.  I read somewhere on this board that we should keep Type 2 in mind when building, thus giving us similar parameters as the actual R&D department; how does this card deal in any way, shape or form with the current face of Standard? 

There isn't anything wrong with printing control cards.  I'm just wary of creating too many synergistic control cards that target a strategy that is traditionally the weakness of control decks.  Of course, I can see your point.  Eventually, it's only fair that hard control swings back around as a powerhouse decktype, in which case, a card like this would be appropriate.

[asmoranomardicodais]

I don't think blue would be realistic color choice seeing how wotc is trying its best not to print any control bombs for blue.

I think that was the point of my post. Everyone seems extremely tense about giving blue any cards thatmight make blue good. This card feels either UR or monowhite, and I think that we should decide by where it fits in the color pie, and not avoid blue because of the "Blame Blue First" crowd over in R&D.

All wizards is doing is trying to make control strategies viable in ay color, not just blue. That doesn't mean that blue shouldn't get control cards that fit its flavor; it just means that it shouldn't get all control cards only because they are control cards.

Also about power issues, control should always be the strongest strategy, or the game just isn't as fun as it could be. It shouldn't be overpowered to the point where other strategies aren't viable, but it should still "control" the format. (Yes, I'm a control player, can you tell?)

[Norm4eva]

I like the idea of the card, in theory... and I realize that its wording is elegant as is, but again you've got to think about a Type 2 which has no Echo in it.

Taxing Wizard -cost-

Creature - Wizard

Creatures come into play with an echo counter.
Creatures have "During your upkeep, if this has an echo counter on it, you may pay its casting cost and remove all echo counters from it.  If you don't, sacrifice it."

...or something.  My only real beef with it is that it's got an ancient keyword on it; remedy that and I think it's fine.

[Machinus]

I liked the original version of this card because it is a solid red removal card that doesn't rely on damage. While red doesn't get many of these for flavor reasons, echo makes a lot of sense and I think it is a doable style of card.