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Author Topic: Periods? (Gemstone Mine and Crop Rotation)  (Read 1581 times)
mattdeballer
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« on: April 03, 2006, 11:31:21 pm »

OK I just played in a casual game with my buddy. I had a gemstone mine with 1 counter left on it. I tapped it for mana, and in response to the sacrificing of it I sacced it to crop rotation. My buddy prostested, but I referenced a time where I played at regionals, and a similar play was allowed by a judge. He was playing RDW and activated a sensei's divining top to draw, but in response he casted shrapnel blast. I protested and called a judge, who allowed it, saying that there was a period in the ability, and thus there was a break in the activation that he could respond to. Drawing upon this reference I used it against my friend who still protested, but allowed it as it didn't really affect the game that much.

So my question is, can I respond to the carrying out of an ability if there is a period separating different parts of the ability?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2006, 11:53:39 pm by Matt » Logged
Matt
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2006, 11:53:14 pm »

There is no period seperating different parts of an ability, unless you mean seperating "paying the costs of the ability" and "the ability itself." You can't pause partway through resolving a complicated ability, just like you can't pause in the middle of a Timetwister or other multipart spell. The whole thing resolves at once, or none of it does - no player has priority during the resolution of a spell or ability.

But you probably meant "between paying costs and resolving abilities" and yes both players get priority between those two actions. In the Top case, the cost is to tap it, and the ability goes on the stack, and then you can respond with Shrapnel Blast.

Let's look at [card]Gemstone Mine[/card]'s official text (always use gatherer.wizards.com):

{T}, Remove a mining counter from Gemstone Mine: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. If there are no mining counters on Gemstone Mine, sacrifice it.

Unlike Top, this ability is a mana ability, which can't be responded to (or countered but that's not relevant here). Also, the sacrifice clause is part of the mana ability, not a seperate triggered ability (contrast this with [card]Serrated Arrows[/card], which has a sacrifice ability that is not part of its remove-a-counter ability).

So no, your play was wrong; because the sacrifice is part of the mana ability, getting the mana and losing the land are essentially simultaneous. You do technically get the Mine mana first, but you're not able to spend it on the Crop Rotation until the Mine is gone (the ability finishes resolving).

Moreover, even if you had the Mine and a Forest to pay for the Crop Rotation, it still wouldn't have worked, because you can't respond to a mana ability (even the ones with restrictions on when you can use them like [card]Lion's Eye Diamond[/card]).
« Last Edit: April 04, 2006, 12:03:19 am by Matt » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2006, 08:23:07 am »

I'm not sure, but could he have done it another way? Instead paying with another mana source, forest, city of brass, whatever for the rotation and respond to it by then tapping mine to float a mana.  Or is this still a lost cause and the mine dies before the rotation resolves?
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« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2006, 08:34:43 am »

Sacrificing a land is an additional cost of playing Crop Rotation, so no.
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« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2006, 04:16:00 pm »

Even if it weren't an additional cost, it still wouldn't work. The reason is that sacrificing the Mine is part of the mana ability. It's the same reason you can't get around Adarkar Waste's damage.
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2006, 06:44:04 pm »

That's true, but if Crop Rotation had different wording (instead of sacrifice a land as a cost, destroy target land you control), it would work.
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2006, 08:02:17 pm »

That's true, but if Crop Rotation had different wording (instead of sacrifice a land as a cost, destroy target land you control), it would work.
Actually, that would lead to Crop Rotation getting countered as it tried to resolve, as its only legal target (the gemstone mine) is not in play.

But that's not the actual wording of the card, so there's no real point in discussing it.
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