A Good Old Fashioned (Green) Fist Fight

[dandan]

Pack Hunt
1{g}{g}
Sorcery
Remove at least one creature you control and target creature an opponent controls from the game.  That opponent may remove any number of additional creatures he or she controls from the game
The player who removed the highest combined power of creatures may return to play all creatures that player owns that were removed by ~this~ this turn.
Play only before combat.
You can't duel a swarm

Red and White may allow a Tarpan a chance to take out a Colossus but Green will take down that SOAB with 20 Saprolings.

Latest version
Pack Attack
1{g}{g}
Sorcery
Tap any number of untapped creatures you control. ~this~ deals damage equal to the total power of the creatures tapped in this way to target creature. That creature deals damage equal to its power divided as its controller chooses among any of the creatures tapped in this way.
You can't duel a swarm

Changed to Matt's version and resurrected from page 5!
Untapped added

[Godder]

[card]Pack Hunt[/card].

Name aside, this is an interesting card, but would it not be easier to do it like [card]Tahngarth[/card]?

[Harlequin]

A few things:
1)
It basically only works if you have more combined power than your opponents board.  Because If they have the power to do it, there is no risk to adding more creatures to the RFG team.  Its basically:
"Remove target creature from the game if the sum of your creatures power is the sum of thier creatures power (then skip your attack phase...)"  Also there is no insentive to compete if you know the outcome.
Perhaps the creatures should come and go from your hand accept the one target "Hunted" creature.

I took a crack at wording this type of modification, but it just got difficult to word where the creatures are coming and going.

2)
your 20 Sapporlings is cool... but you don't get them back because they are tokens. 

[dandan]

You are right. Would it be too 'good' (for a Green creature kill spell) if the opponent couldn't RFG more creatures? I didn't really like the idea of a Bear taking out a Peacekeeper or Royal Assassin without the opponent having a way out.

It could go the Superior Numbers route and deal damage equal to the number of creatures removed.

How about?

Pack Hunt
1{g}{g}
Sorcery
Remove at least two creatures you control and target creature an opponent controls from the game.  That opponent may remove any number of additional creatures he or she controls from the game
The player who removed the highest number of creatures may return to play a creature that player owns that was removed by ~this~ this turn for each creature RFG in excess of the number removed by his/her opponent.
Play only before combat.
You can't duel a swarm

Now you need at least creatures (makes more sense given the theme) and numbers of creatures are more important than power. If you have more creatures than an opponent you can give up an attack phase and a card to 'kill' their creature (more gone foresting than gone farming). If you have equal numbers you offer to trade your critters and a card for theirs but the opponent could decline and accept the loss of a creature for your card and attack phase.

Thinking about it logically, if you have 20 Saprolings, turn them sideways!!! However 2 Saprolings taking out a Colossus is an amusing thought ("Over here, stomp on me!" "No, over here").

[Harlequin]

("Over here, stomp on me!" "No, over here").

*DSC's Head  Explodes*

I Like that a bit better.  It needs to spesify how to handle a tie though.  At least it seems in a tie all creatures are RFGed perhaps this would warent some reminder text, or just basic text.

[dandan]

How about?

If one player RFGed more creatures than the other player, he or she may return to play a creature he or she owns that was removed by ~this~ this turn for each creature RFG in excess of the number removed by his/her opponent.

[Matt]

What if, instead of RFG, it was like:

~this~ deals X damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures, where X is the total power of creatures you control.
Choose an opponent. ~this~ deals Y damage divided as that opponent choose, where Y is the total power of creatures he or she controls.


Or, if what you're going for is a duel rather than a massive brawl...

FistFace
<cost>
Sorcery
Target creature you control and target creature you don't control each gain ": This creature deals damage equal to its power to target creature which was targeted by a card named FistFace this turn" until end of turn.

That would also be interesting when you play multiples in one turn.

Last option: the "ganging up on a guy" spell:

The Gang's All Here
<cost>
Sorcery
Tap any number of creatures you control. ~this~ deals damage equal to the total power of the creatures tapped in this way to target creature. That creature deals damage equal to its power divided as its controller chooses among any of the creatures tapped in this way.

20 saprolings can take down a Dreadnought, but that Dreadnought is sure gonna take 12 saps with him.

[dandan]

Changed to Matt's version and resurrected from page 5!!

[Anusien]

Instead of just being many versus one, do you want to make it able to handle many versus many?  Or does that make the card too complicated.

As an aside, I don't think this accurately represents the game, since according to this card, 40 midgets could take down a lion.

[dandan]

Instead of just being many versus one, do you want to make it able to handle many versus many?  Or does that make the card too complicated.
As an aside, I don't think this accurately represents the game, since according to this card, 40 midgets could take down a lion.

I'm fine with this as many versus one, pack hunt is a green thing.

40 midgets could take down a lion if they are given outside help - a rifle, a Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, or this spell. Note that if the midgets are 0/1 (like Kobolds) then they still can't take out a lion. The lion will still take out a number of the little guys. And if we assume the midgets are 1/1s then a single midget can already take out a lion, so this spell hardly changes the world of Magic.

[/T.O.P.I.C.]
I was actually thinking about the whole lion/midgets thing whilst driving home last night (Slovak roads are relatively quiet and even distracted by the hypothetical death-match I am still less prone to doing something totally stupid^TM than many Slovak drivers). The problem for the midgets is that they can't actually do any fatal damage to the lion, whereas the lion is pretty solid in the death-dealing field (with strong back-up in the fatally-injuring and the maiming with intent to kill you whenever I feel like it fields). It is kind of like Independence Day and the A2A missiles trying to take out the alien ships, the midgets can at best eye-gouge, damage the inner-ear and do nasty things to his unmentionables, all unpleasant but not likely to prevent the lion killing them, rather the opposite.
As the drive home took about 10 mins. the train of thought continued. Only read on if you, like tourists to the beautiful nature reserve of the Slovak High Tatras mountains, like rambling.
The midgets need weapons. I don't know if any of you have read Use of Weapons (can't remember the author). If you have, you will understand the logic, if not I don't want to spoil your enjoyment so I won't go into details. The resources the midgets have are themselves. Initially I thought a broken leg bone would make a reasonable weapon, as puncture wounds are far preferrable to slashing  damage against a lion. However it is not at all clear how the midgets would extract the bone, although the lion might help it might be a touch too late by that point. Then I had a brainwave. Ribs!!! A couple of dead midgets could supply weapons to the remaining midgets and a pack of small guys carrying sharp pointy bones (snap off the ends for added sharpness) might, just might get lucky and take down the lion.

Then I got home.

[Anusien]

I think the Saw helped illustrate the problem with that.  Even when faced with imminent death, are you willing to reach into the corpse of a member of your society and subgroup and desecrate the body?  I doubt it.

Oh, and I like it.  Wondering if the attacked creature ought to tap too.

[dandan]

No way. The lion stands there as 40 Kobolds bounce off it and is not in the least bit tired.

[Anusien]

It doesn't seem that simple since the targeted creature hits back.  The 40 kobolds swarm the lion and it takes two down in a bloody fight before driving the rest off.  How does that not tap you?

[parallax]

In the vast majority of cases, the opposing creature is going to be killed so tapping it doesn't matter one way or the other. The question is, do we want to give green an admittedly rather overcosted ability to tap down a defending creature before attacking? That's not really green's slice of the color pie. You could even just choose none of your creatures and tap their creature without losing any guys.

Shouldn't this read "Tap any number of untapped creatures you control. . ."

[Matt]

The midgets need weapons. I don't know if any of you have read Use of Weapons (can't remember the author). If you have, you will understand the logic, if not I don't want to spoil your enjoyment so I won't go into details. The resources the midgets have are themselves. Initially I thought a broken leg bone would make a reasonable weapon, as puncture wounds are far preferrable to slashing  damage against a lion. However it is not at all clear how the midgets would extract the bone, although the lion might help it might be a touch too late by that point. Then I had a brainwave. Ribs!!! A couple of dead midgets could supply weapons to the remaining midgets and a pack of small guys carrying sharp pointy bones (snap off the ends for added sharpness) might, just might get lucky and take down the lion.

Then I got home.

AHEM.

Actually, the best strategy would be for the midgets to wait for the lion to kill a couple, then lure it away while other midgets scavenge the corpses. Pull out the bones, break them to get sharp, pointy ends, and now you've got 35 armed midgets vs. a lion.

[Anusien]

In the vast majority of cases, the opposing creature is going to be killed so tapping it doesn't matter one way or the other. The question is, do we want to give green an admittedly rather overcosted ability to tap down a defending creature before attacking? That's not really green's slice of the color pie. You could even just choose none of your creatures and tap their creature without losing any guys.

Shouldn't this read "Tap any number of untapped creatures you control. . ."

Good catch on the untapped thing.  But yeah, I saw the potential to use your Llanowar Elves to tap their big guy, but you're trading 2 for 1 for the ability to do that, which I think is fair.  That's a green type tactic, sacrificing yourself for the good of the pack.  White would do it with Master Decoy.  I think you're right though that most of the time it won't matter, since you're only going to do this if you can kill the guy.

[parallax]

In the vast majority of cases, the opposing creature is going to be killed so tapping it doesn't matter one way or the other. The question is, do we want to give green an admittedly rather overcosted ability to tap down a defending creature before attacking? That's not really green's slice of the color pie. You could even just choose none of your creatures and tap their creature without losing any guys.

Shouldn't this read "Tap any number of untapped creatures you control. . ."

Good catch on the untapped thing.  But yeah, I saw the potential to use your Llanowar Elves to tap their big guy, but you're trading 2 for 1 for the ability to do that, which I think is fair.  That's a green type tactic, sacrificing yourself for the good of the pack.  White would do it with Master Decoy.  I think you're right though that most of the time it won't matter, since you're only going to do this if you can kill the guy.

Note that "any number of untapped creatures" could be zero creatures and would still tap their guy. Now, for "Tap target creature." might not be that big a deal, but that sounds a lot like for "Destroy target enchantment." Does anyone know if green has gotten any effects like this before?

[dandan]

The midgets need weapons. I don't know if any of you have read Use of Weapons (can't remember the author). If you have, you will understand the logic, if not I don't want to spoil your enjoyment so I won't go into details. The resources the midgets have are themselves. Initially I thought a broken leg bone would make a reasonable weapon, as puncture wounds are far preferrable to slashing  damage against a lion. However it is not at all clear how the midgets would extract the bone, although the lion might help it might be a touch too late by that point. Then I had a brainwave. Ribs!!! A couple of dead midgets could supply weapons to the remaining midgets and a pack of small guys carrying sharp pointy bones (snap off the ends for added sharpness) might, just might get lucky and take down the lion.
Then I got home.

AHEM.

Actually, the best strategy would be for the midgets to wait for the lion to kill a couple, then lure it away while other midgets scavenge the corpses. Pull out the bones, break them to get sharp, pointy ends, and now you've got 35 armed midgets vs. a lion.

Sorry Matt. Still I am now well qualified to work for Wizards R&D as I claim I didn't read your comment and came up with an identical idea myself.

[dandan]

Clock.

Much as the fate of this card is entwined with the epic struggle of small folk and large felines, couldn't we close and add it sometime so we can all play midgets vs. lions at home?