[TMD Article] Slavery by Toad

[Zherbus]

Slavery by Toad

Most of you have read through this by now, but I wanted to open a discussion on it on the real forums.

[Nameless]

While I liked the article quite a bit, especially in regards to a deck that I happen to enjoy very much and want to learn more about, I do have one small problem...

Why is an example deck being shown that is obviously heavily metagamed to begin with?

Main deck Blood Moon does not belong in any deck being featured as a primer.  This card is completely a metagame card that in no way helps the deck to function, and as a matter of fact, in many ways it can even hinder the deck if not used correctly.

I would completely agree that this card should be in the SB, and I would also completely agree that it deserves a few words on when it should be sided in and used, and even possibly main decked.  However, in anything even remotely simular to a primer, and especially in an article talking about a deck in general, there is no reason for this card to actually be a part of that deck list.

Otherwise, I rather enjoyed the article as a whole.  Nice job Toad.  

[Kowal]

I've yet to see a build that didn't maindeck blood moon, from the control infested fields of Hadley to the scrubby aggro at Cape Cod.  I've no problem with maindeck blood moons in the primer as well.

[Toad]

I personnaly have no problems with maindecking Blood Moon is a so-called optimal decklist. The main win condition of Slavery is the opponent's deck. In order to do that, the opponent's deck needs to be strong and to have good "lose" conditions, such as Ambassador, Demonic Consultation, etc ... For that reason, Slavery is a metagame deck, a deck that only has to be played in a highly powered metagame such as GenCon. Slavering an opponent playing Dragon or Keeper is cool, but what would you do if your opponent's hand is "Plains, Plains, Soltari Priest and Savannah Lions"? Nothing really interesting. Hence, as the deck is designed to be played against the top decks, maindecking Blood Moon is not a problem. Back in time, Legend Blue optimal decklist was maindecking 4 Back to Basics. Of course, this weakens your matchups against mono coloured decks, but as I said before, the deck is not meant to face these round after round. If you play in a low powered meta, then putting the Blood Moons in the sideboard for maindeck Masticores, Triskelions, Pentavus or additional Karns can perfectly be done.

[Nameless]

I personnaly have no problems with maindecking Blood Moon is a so-called optimal decklist. The main win condition of Slavery is the opponent's deck. In order to do that, the opponent's deck needs to be strong and to have good "lose" conditions, such as Ambassador, Demonic Consultation, etc ... For that reason, Slavery is a metagame deck, a deck that only has to be played in a highly powered metagame such as GenCon. Slavering an opponent playing Dragon or Keeper is cool, but what would you do if your opponent's hand is "Plains, Plains, Soltari Priest and Savannah Lions"? Nothing really interesting. Hence, as the deck is designed to be played against the top decks, maindecking Blood Moon is not a problem. Back in time, Legend Blue optimal decklist was maindecking 4 Back to Basics. Of course, this weakens your matchups against mono coloured decks, but as I said before, the deck is not meant to face these round after round. If you play in a low powered meta, then putting the Blood Moons in the sideboard for maindeck Masticores, Triskelions, Pentavus or additional Karns can perfectly be done.

I am now completely lost.

You just said how you can't do much interesting.  Well, if you've got Blood Moon on the table, and it's working(!!!), then you can't do anything at all.  Being that you just told me how it uses your opponents deck to win, then please explain this one to me, because it isn't making sense.

And yes, you can always take it with a grain of sarcasm, but none is intended here.  I just happen to think that not only is Blood Moon a SB card that shouldn't be in the main deck, but also that it can actually work against you.

Now as for what I would replace them with?  3 of them would be Cunning Wish.  That's what I use in my test build, whith a Chain of Plasma and Chain of Vapor, among other things, in my SB.  Both of these cards let me do things with a Mindslaver regardless of how bad my opponents hand is, and 90% of the time I can just win with it right then.

To me that's a hell of a lot better then main decked Blood Moon.  Not that 3 aren't in my own SB, or 4 if that's what you want, but it just serves to make the deck itself better rather then hoping to both work against yourself, and maybe screw over an opponent.

And besides, Mono-Blue running B2B isn't a comparison here, because this deck requires skill to play, and Mono-Blue could be polited by a retarded monkey...  I take that back.  A retarded monkey on valium.  Yea...  That's better.

[rvs]

And besides, Mono-Blue running B2B isn't a comparison here, because this deck requires skill to play, and Mono-Blue could be polited by a retarded monkey...  I take that back.  A retarded monkey on valium.  Yea...  That's better.

I really hope you realise that's just BS. Also, b2b IS a comparison, since it effectively serves the same purpose: shutting down / slowing your opponent. The problem with b2b is that you can't support running it, since you have non-basics yourself. Blood moon is easy to support thanks to Gilded Lotus, and it can even make Workshop usefull after turn2.

Also, Cunning Wish is not only ass-slow in a deck that needs to come out fast, it is uncastable with workshop.

[Nameless]

And besides, Mono-Blue running B2B isn't a comparison here, because this deck requires skill to play, and Mono-Blue could be polited by a retarded monkey...  I take that back.  A retarded monkey on valium.  Yea...  That's better.

I really hope you realise that's just BS. Also, b2b IS a comparison, since it effectively serves the same purpose: shutting down / slowing your opponent. The problem with b2b is that you can't support running it, since you have non-basics yourself. Blood moon is easy to support thanks to Gilded Lotus, and it can even make Workshop usefull after turn2.

Also, Cunning Wish is not only ass-slow in a deck that needs to come out fast, it is uncastable with workshop.

OK, now you REALLY lost me.  If Cunning WIsh is ass-slow and uncastable, then why the hell did you just a few words earlier say how Gilded Lotus helps.  You just said two different things completely here!  If you can't cast Cunning Wish, ignore please ALL the other Blue cards already in the deck, then why in the heck isn't this thing just Mono-Red then?

Secondly, Mono-Blue really WAS easily polited by primitive primates and children (which some would classify in the first category).  If you don't beleive me then go do some homework on the T1 tournaments that were literally being won by kids playing that deck.

I say the two don't compair because B2B worked its best in that Mono-Blue deck, where here, just as you said, Blood Moon takes more skill to use because it can do things with your own mana base that you sometimes may not care for, and certainly B2B wouldn't work at all.

I think maybe you and some other people need to step back and make sure you aren't saying something just because you want to be stubborn or already have your mind made up, rather then accepting something that might well be the better choice.  Point is, even if Cunning Wish isn't better in those slots, I'm quite sure we can find something that IS, and that also happens to help the actual deck work better (god forbid) as opposed to maybe screwing over an opponent sometimes and wasting those slots completely.