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Author Topic: [Report] Split at Milwaukee 4/15/06 with 5c Stax  (Read 4621 times)
Pitlord
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« on: April 16, 2006, 11:38:37 pm »

There was a small tournament at a local card store, Milwaukee Sports Cards, on Saturday, and some ICBMers, some GWSers, and a total of 32 Midwest players showed up. The field was mainly well established, with a handful of scrubs playing next to players like Roland Chang and Eric Becker.

Nothing really exciting happened on the way there, just the normal jokes, kidding, and ripping on friends. With nothing else to say about what happened before; here is the actual play report. I played 5c Chang stax, with the help of David Carhart, who loaned me two moxes so I could cut down to 10 proxies.

5 Color Chang Stax [List based on Roland’s Rochester list]
///Mana
7 SoLo Moxes
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Mishra’s Workshop
4 City Of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Barbarian Ring
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
//Total Mana: 27

///Creatures
4 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Triskelion
1 Duplicant
1 Sundering Titan
//Total Creatures: 9

///Locks
3 Crucible Of Worlds
4 Smokestack
4 Chalice Of The Void
3 Sphere Of Resistance
1 Trinisphere
//Total Locks: 15

///Tutor/Utility
1 Darkblast
1 Swords To Plowshares
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Bazaar Of Baghdad
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Balance
1 Crop Rotation
1 Tinker
//Total Utility: 9
////Deck Total: 60

////Sideboard
3 Mana Maze
2 Rack And Ruin
2 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Ray Of Revelation
1 Triskelion
2 Jester’s Cap
2 Pyroclasm
///Total: 15


The list is almost exactly Roland Chang’s latest list, with chalice of the void main decked instead of tangle wire. Chalice was a house all day, and I didn’t miss wire at all. Anyways, onto the matchups…

Round 1 Vs. Matt (Intuition Stax)
Game 1: He plays first, and drops a first turn lock piece, I think it was a smokestack. My turn I drop some mana and my own smokestack. He takes his turn, puts stack to 1, and plays mox monkey, eating everything but my stack and workshop. I sac stack, and play a city and have to pass. The only lock in my hand was 1sphere, which would backfire t this point. He takes a bolt from mana crypt, and sacs it. He plays intuition, gets strip mine, karn, and crucible. How do I deal with that intuition? I gave him Strip mine, but he dropped a city instead and played welder. I concede to stack lock and karn next turn.
I sideboard:
-1 7/10
-1 Balance
-3 1sphere
+1 Trisk
+2 Rack And Ruin
+2 T-crypt
Game 2: I savage this game hardcore. I play workshop, mox, mox, smokestack, turn. He plays a mana vault. I play a turn 2 crucible, and just stack sit at one the whole game. Eventually he just scoops to the best lock ever, the turn after I cast trisk.
Game 3: We each play some early locks, and we both end up losing most of our boards to his smokestack. We only have like 6 minutes left, when he resolves welder and juggernaut. My board is nearly empty as I couldn’t recover from the early stack battle, and juggs swings in for the win before time is called.
Games: 1-2, Matches: 0-1

After our match, which was very enjoyable, I jokingly say that now I only have to 4-0 the field, how hard could it be?…

Round 2 Vs. Maddox (Mountains Win Again)
Game 1: I win the dice roll, and lead with a first turn smokestack. He plays a land, crypt, and passes. I draw a monkey, play him, and then drop a crucible, then eat the crypt. I am now basically out of a hand, but have a clock and a hard lock. After a few turns, he scoops, and on to game 2…
I board:
-1 Swords To Plowshares
-2 Sphere Of Resistance
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Trisk
Game 2: I go first, and see Pyroclasm in my opening grip, which makes me a happy panda. I drop a first turn welder of a mine, play a mox, and pass. He plays a lavamancer first turn, and passes. I sigh, play land and a chalice at 0, and pass. He fetches again, removes both, and kills welder. Then he plays a mox monkey, and it’s my turn. I now have a choice. Do I pyroclasm now to save my mox, or do I wait and try to 3 or 4 for 1 him? I decided to play a wasteland, waste plateau, and pass. I wasn’t sure if this was the right move, but I had a feeling he might overextend. He eats my mox, swings and, awesomely, plays a vandal. YES!! On my turn strip mine, strip his other plateau, and pyroclasm. All he does for basically the rest of the game is bolt me once, as he has no outs thanks to my chalice at 2 that comes down next turn, stopping his seals and disenchants. I eventually kill him by tinkering 7/10 and blowing his entire mana base.
Games: 3-2   Matches: 1-1

After this game there was a lunch break, but no one on our team was hungry so our team and Matt from round 1 played some type 4, complete with screaming, insults, and cursing. Andy from Meandeck got in on the second game, resulting in even more yelling and friendly insults. Type 4 rocks. Team Vorpal Bunny was the only one with our stack there, so it ended up being kind of a whore all day, especially when everyone else was waiting for me while I was playing top 8 matches. Anyways, back to the vintage…

Round 3 Vs. Andy of Meandeck, playing Grimlong
Andy showed up with Roland Chang, who I had paid earlier to get my playmat from him, and I talked with Andy and he sat next to me both games before. We had actually shown each other our main decks during lunch, so we both knew exactly how to play, and we had a good time…
Game 1: I win the dice roll, and draw the absolute nuts against combo. Lotus, Workshop, Lotus for red, welder, chalice @ 0, 1sphere, chalice @ 1, go. He draws his card, plays a fetch and passes. He plays another fetch his next turn, after a little welder beat. My turn, another welder beat, his turn another land. My next turn I play bazaar and he scoops.
I sideboard:
-1 Duplicant
-1 Triskelion
-1 Darkblast
-1 Balance
-1 Swords To Plowshares
+3 Mana Maze
+2 Jester’s Cap
Game 2: He plays a bunch of broken mana and a fetch first turn. Whew, no first turn kill. I play workshop, mox, and jester’s cap. He starts sweating, draws his card, plays another land, and passes. On my turn, I draw and play wasteland, and cap. I remove tendrils, tendrils, and will. He offers the handshake and I go report my 2-0 before lots of others have barely finished shuffling.
Games: 5-2   Matches: 2-1

After this match, I did some trading, and watched the game between Roland Chang, Andy’s teammate, and Maddox, an associate of my team. Roland won.

Round 4 Vs. Rafe of ICBM playing gifts
Game 1: He wins the roll and plays mana. I keep a sketchy six-card hand with only 1 lock. That lock, a turn 1 trinisphere, gets forced away. He keeps playing mana and drawing cards, while I get flaccid top decks of land, land, land, mox. He manages to tinker for the big man, and time walks for the win. I sideboard:
+2 Rack And Ruin
-1 Darkblast
-1 Trisk
Game 2: I play a first turn gemstone, mana, welder, and chalice at zero. He kept a hand of a bunch of broken mana I guess, because he groans, plays land and passes. I use my gemstone and moxes turn 2 to play crucible, which resolves. Then I play strip mine. We each take a few turns, me stripping lands and welder beating, before he scoops to game 3.
Game 3: He mulls to 5, keeps his hand, and plays ancestral. I play a turn 1 trinisphere off shop, which resolves. He then draws his card, and discards DSC. On my turn I play a land and chalice at 2. He draws, and rips DSC off the top, practically throwing it across the room when he sees it. I then play crucible and smokestack on successive turns, and he scoops, acknowledging that there are 20 minutes left, and I will win before that.

After this game, I am starting to get really hungry, but then my savior comes. Matt walks in with a box of chicken fried rice. He lets me have 2 bites, the first food since about 8:45 that morning; it is now about 2:30. I won’t get food again until about 11, but I don’t care at this point, I am focused on my next match, where winning means drawing to top 8.

Round 5 Vs Greg from GWS with some sort of fish GWS was all playing…
Game 1: He plays first, going underground sea, pass. I draw something like… Mox for mana vault for crucible and then city for welder, which hits a daze. He then plays underground sea and says go again. I play sol ring and 1sphere. He plays an island. I play tinker for 7/10, which blows up his mana and proceeds to do a victory dance.
I don’t sideboard because all I have seen was daze, and I have heard nothing about the deck from my teammates.
Game 2: He plays a land and planar void. Ok, I play a wasteland, waste underground sea, and try to play welder off ruby, which gets forced. He plays a land. I play a land and some mana. He plays a land and Dark Confidant. I play a land, and a 1sphere.  Bob Maher flips a rack and ruin for a bolt to the head, and then swings in for 2. My turn I rip Tolarian off the top, and manage to hard cast 7/10. He flips out, saying that I didn’t have 9 because of sphere, but everyone around agrees I do. Bob flips lotus, and he sits. I take my turn, swing and get the hit. Then he plays another land. I take my turn and swing, but get Bob blocked. He then plays another land, and racks sphere and titan, killing his entire dual filled board. Next turn I play a mox monkey, and beat with him for the last 5 points while he can’t draw a land.

Round 6: ID with Eric Becker.

I play some type 4 with the team and Andy and Matt, and talk with Roland about some stax tech and building hints. Top 8 pairings take forever, and it turns out Roland, who started at 0-2, made it in on breakers. Never go 0-2 drop.

TOP 8
Round 1 Vs Matt Endress playing Grimlong
Game I: I had forgotten how compulsive Endress really is, as he takes about 10 minutes just to decide whether to mull, which he does. He keeps the six, and wins the roll. He plays a fetch and passes. Seems like a common play today… I play a turn 1 chalice at zero and a wasteland. He fetches an island and brainstorms. He plays imperial seal on his turn, and passes. I think I screwed him though because I play a 1sphere and some mana. He sighs, does math in his head for about 10 minutes and passes after playing a fetch. I manage to play a smokestack, and next turn comes down crucible and 3sphere for the concession.
Game 2: I board the same as I did against Andy, and he plays a bunch of mana on the first turn. I play a turn 1 1sphere and welder off lotus, and pass. He doesn’t do anything, and I play a shop and tap out for a cap. He has to win now and he knows it. He uses all of his mana to cast memory jar, which he is now tapped out because of. Now, a play decision, another hard one, at least for him. Does he crack it now and hope for lots of broken and a land to support it and store stuff in his yard, or does he wait until my turn, trying to avoid cap but risk giving me the nuts. He passes, and breaks jar as I cap with a shop open for mana. I draw the nuts, and play tons of broken and another sphere. I weld in cap once more, just to get basically everything out of his deck, and he eventually concedes.

Quarter Finals Vs. Mike with 2 land belcher
Game 1: I win the die roll, and play welder. He manages to get a belcher into play, but next turn comes mox monkey from me to eat his mox and weld his belcher into a mox. He stalls for a while, while I cast trisk and beat him over the head with machines and monkeys.
I sideboard out swords and balance. In come 2 Rack and Ruin, all I really got.
Game 2: he draws his 7, and plays bayou, a bunch of rituals, demonic for belcher, activate, and flips exactly 10 cards before hitting taiga. Damn.
Game 3: I get a turn 1 chalice at zero, but he gets a turn 1 belcher anyways. He doesn’t have any mana though to belch, he passes. I play a 1sphere and pass. He land grants and plays living wish with his 2 lands. Uh-oh. He gets city of brass and passes. I rip wasteland and waste the bayou, then play a sol ring. He plays city and passes. I play tinker for 7/10, blowing up the taiga. He draws and says go. I rip another waste and he concedes.

After that hard fought battle, I give Roland my altered art 7/10 I have been using the whole tournament because he gave me a free trinisphere. I split with Ryan Fisher, him getting 170 cash and an Italian drain that he gives to Becker and I get 230 cash, which I use to get Asian crucibles and a near mint Bazaar. Not bad for 20 bucks and some gas $.

After I finish buying shit, we all get ready to leave, get lost for about 45 minutes in Milwaukee, and finally get back to Waukesha around 11, where we go to Taco Bell and eat in the parking lot until about midnight, and then we all go home.

Overall, here are the things I learned today about my deck:
- Chalice is a house, stopping drains, moxes, and fish dorks all day. Much better than tangle wire ever was for me, even when I had to set it at one, shutting down a lot of my own deck.
- Balance seemed OK, only getting cast once or twice, butting being a wrecking ball when it was.
- Swords and Rays were never really used, because I did not play a single match against oath all day, which is surprising.
- Crop Rotation NEVER ONCE got me bazaar. It got me shop and strip mine all day though, making me think that another bazaar could be useful, but what to cut?
- The mana base was pretty stable all day, only cutting me off my colors in like 1 game, which isn’t bad considering…
- Five color stax is still a huge threat, and one of the best decks ever, especially when it is as pimped out as Roland’s…

Now for the last obligatory section:
Props To:
- Mike, my quarter final opponent who loaned me a rack and ruin because I left mine at home by accident.
- Dave, for loaning me 2 moxes and winning a mana drain in the side event after scrubbing out of the main event, Roland Chang Chicago style.
- Team Meandeck, aka Roland and Andy, for helping me work on one of my friends drain decks, which we discovered had 61 cards. Oops.
- Our team, for being the only team there who brought our type 4 stack, turning it into a total whore.
Slops to:
- The tournament organizer, this one was pretty poorly run, no deck checks at all, etc.
- Me, for forgetting my rack and ruin spares at home and taking 10 minutes to find someone with an extra to loan me.
- Me, for giving my teammate a 61 card drain deck by accident. Damn you basic math!!
- Dealer lines, which made me wait 20 minutes to get like $35 worth of cards… Confused
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M.Solymossy
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2006, 12:23:17 am »

Next time i will be there... so enjoy your victory while you can.  :lol:
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A strong play.

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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2006, 04:15:51 am »

[I don't want this to be the chalice vs. tangle debat forum, but here's my opinion] I think Tangles are better than chalice in Roland's. They reward his pantience and playskill, while chalice rewards luck (dice roll, future topdecks, etc). With that said I'd be running 3 tangles and a 4th 2sphere in the current meta. Chalice also prob seemed better b/c you had alot of early smokestacks running.

Greg went on tilt that you drew the titan and could hardcast it with a welder on the board, not about paying the extra mana. He said he had tinker covered (FoW in hand).

Anyways, congrats on the finish, its good to see you've upgraded from Worse Than Fish. 
« Last Edit: April 17, 2006, 04:27:56 am by kobefan » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2006, 11:36:20 am »

I agree that chalice was better than wire a lot of the time because of early smokestacks or crucibles. I tried to focus on baiting counters with welders all day, in order to resolve my real components. It seemed to work well, and tangle wire loses a lot of effectiveness without welder. My style seemed to work though, so i am not going to knock it. The 4th sphere was almost added in at the last minute, but I left the fourth one in my box at home, right next to the rack and ruins... Sad

I agree that this is an upgrade from worse than fish, although I still have it together, to play for fun. Also, Greg shouldn't feel bad, I think I honestly hardcasted 7/10 more than I tinkered him that day. Mr. Green

@Solly: I am enjoying my finish, and I look forward to smashing you at the next tournament. Razz
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2006, 12:42:53 pm »

Congrats on your finish.

If you aren't running Tangle Wire, do you find Goblin welders to be less than completely useful in a lot of games? I wouldn't play Welders without Wires.

Also, I couldn't help but notice that Mana Maze doesn't show up that much in your report. Do you still keep it?
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2006, 01:15:11 pm »

I did find welder a little weak, and was testing with only three before the tournament, adding either another crucible ro a lone null rod. But because i could not obtain an extra of either rod or crucible, since my stuff was at home, as we all know... I went for all 4 welders. They were alright all day, but never terrific. I mainly used them to bait counters so I could resolve an actual lock, which worked out pretty well.

As for the mana maze, they weren't used all that much, but were there because we expected to see a lot more combo than we did. I played against 2 combo decks the whole day, and I kind of drew the nuts against them both. Mana maze only got played in game 2 against Andy, and even then i was already in a winning position. It seems like a good card for stax, and I am testing it out against drain matches as well.
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2006, 03:24:50 pm »

Oh fyi Andy wasnt part of meandeck, He just traveled with Roland and sported the playmat as well as eluding to the overall conclusion that he was in fact part of the team. Kind of a joke thing to see if everyone would go along with it. Also you forgot the music played (Ride of the Valkeryies), when Yawg will resolved. Congrats on the finish, hope to see you around more.
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2006, 05:49:40 pm »

The night before the tournament I was looking through some junk rares and came upon Mana Maze. It's more limited than Arcane Lab, but against pure combo like IT or Long it struck me as being potentially more useful since it could come down a turn sooner, perhaps before they had a chance to Duress it away or combo out. I didn't wind up getting paired against any combo so I didn't have a chance to test it much but I think its worth trying out.

I wound up barely missing Top8 but we finally got enough people together to run the Drain side event. I beat Nighbor round 1 (after we had drawn our past two matches), beat Dan Carp 2-0 (after he had 2-0'd me our last two matches) and then took home the Drain.

While I agree that Oath may be less skill intensive than some of the other decks in the format, I wouldn't take that too far. Even the GWS version which is more aggressive is essentially a control deck with the potential to lay down a combo at any point. Negotiating the beatdown/control roles, especially when playing against gifts takes some skill and I think it can be a strong deck--last week I split a Ruby and this week a Drain.

Some of the changes: I like the GWS shell, but dropping the Cities and a Wasteland for an extra Underground, extra Tropical and another fetchland (basically the ICBM manabase) has been amazing--increasing the effectiveness of Top, stabalizing the base against Stax and letting me run Massacre in the board to completely switch the U/W Fish matchup. I added 1 maindeck misdirection and it has been amazing as a 5th FoW backup when I lay an Oath or as help during counter wars. A maindeck Muddle the Mixture has also been surprisingly effective as a late-game tutor for Oath or Timewalk.

Props to Grant for the split, slops to South Milwaukee for the nasty smell in the store (that wasn't players for once  :lol:)
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2006, 09:46:48 pm »

Also you forgot the music played (Ride of the Valkeryies), when Yawg will resolved.

How dare you play my cut while resolving Will.  That is totally my anthem.
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« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2006, 09:58:41 pm »

I actually never got to play against the theme music, but I witnessed it a few times. The conductor style effects were pretty sweet and a cool addition to a spectacular will. I am glad I was never on the recieving end though...

Again, props to you Dave for winning the drain and loaning me $600... And You are right, that store did have a prety funky odor. Confused
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« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2006, 11:55:07 pm »

Team gifts, formerly (and still) team ICBM, will crush you in passtimes, Game Universe, Appleton, and everywhere else you want to be.

bring it!


PS. we're actually Team Gifts, plus Tony, Ben, and Jamison.  LOL.
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2006, 12:24:37 am »

Well, it seems that you guys did have a pretty good showing, but I wouldn't say "crushed everyone else" is exactly the right phrase...

The top 8 was actually very diverse, with Vorpal Bunny, GWS, ICBM, Hitman, and Meandeck all making top 8 finishes. This is probaly one of the most diverse top 8s team wise Wisconsin has seen for a long time, and maybe seeing that will shut up the ICBMer's... Just kidding, you guys are awesome.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2006, 12:50:29 am by Pitlord » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2006, 12:36:15 am »

Meh, our cockiness is all in friendly compitition. =-)
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2006, 08:11:00 am »

Would've been better if there had been more notice.  There was several of us (namely myself, Jeremy Seroogy and Ben Carp) who couldn't attend because we weren't given enough notice to take off work for it.  I'd recommend to any TO in the Midwest area to give 3-4 weeks notice prior so that everyone can schedule off accordingly.  It can make your tourney attendance jump.
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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2006, 02:26:14 pm »

Thanks Matt, ya duesch.  Ya know, some of the OTHER guys (cough me cough) had to work too!
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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2006, 07:45:57 pm »

Thanks Matt, ya duesch.  Ya know, some of the OTHER guys (cough me cough) had to work too!

If you're going to insult him, at least do it correctly.

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« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2006, 05:21:41 pm »

  Nice report, and better drawing of LD in the quarters against me.  Might as well post this here.  Belcher was a house for me all day, beating through 3 u/r/b fish decks, and a mono-u control with maindeck pithing needle/arcane lab.  Total count of T1 kills was 8 and mulligans were I think 3.  Belcher is an amazing deck, but requires the luckiest draws in the world.  As for the shop, being my home shop I would know, it holds some of the worst run tournaments in the world.  The judging staff is nonexistant, but prizes are prizes.   

  Remember theres another tourney May 27th i believe at the same shop for an emerald, hope to see everyone there.  And hopefully the owner will move all of his worldly posessions out of the back so we can use the back room by then.
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2006, 12:14:49 am »

Quote
Total count of T1 kills was 8 and mulligans were I think 3.  Belcher is an amazing deck, but requires the luckiest draws in the world.

Clearly you weren't doing enough analysis and mulliganing correctly.  I find that I mulligan about 35-40% of the time with the deck.  Mulliganing improperly is a usually a game loss, and you don't need raw cards (this isn't storm combo where everything counts), so the deck takes the mulligans quite well.  Although you had a substantial number of first turn kills, The fact that you suggest that it requires the "luckiest draws in the world" further indicates that you are mulliganing incorrectly.  Work on that.  Razz

I have never pulled more than 4 turn 1 kills in a tournament setting.  I hit that mark at Chicago (7 rounds played, 18 games = 22.2%) and Springfield (also 7 rounds played, 19 games = 21%).  That only counts games where the game ended on the first turn. You could also consider a game where you play a Belcher on turn 1 and have the mana on the table to activate it a turn 1 win as well, since there are only a few cards that can stop you at that point, but I never counted those.  8 is very impressive, but perhaps it contributes to your conclusion that you need lucky draws to win -- if you weren't winning on the first turn, you had trouble battling through the tough games maybe?

Anyway, Congrats on the finish with Belcher.  I haven't played it in a tournament in quite some time, but I still like to see people play it and do well with it.  I guess it's still my baby.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 12:22:30 am by JDizzle » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2006, 09:29:45 am »

Belcher does mulligan well, I was actually kind of surprised to see you keep one of the hands agaisnt me that you did. And yes, I ripped the wasteland off the top, resulting in an awesome surprise for me.

Mulligans was a thing that I wasn't sure of how well I was doing all day. I kept a decent number of sketchy hands, and actually thought about mulling away stuff with welders, knowing I wasn't playing wires. However, keeping those hands payed off a lot though, because welder allowed me to bait counters, letting me resolve my one real lock piece in said sketch hands. Against Endress I actually took like 5 minutes to decide whether or not to mull. He just looked up at me and said "lots of insane plays huh...", definitly one of the funnier quotes that day.
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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2006, 01:46:37 pm »

With Stax, if you don't have a significant turn 1 play, you should mulligan the hand.  Significant turn 1 plays include:
- Smokestack
- Sphere of Resistance/Trinisphere
- Tangle Wire (if on the draw)
- Crucible of Worlds ONLY IF you have Strip Mine or a way to get it (Crucible by itself does nothing)
- Wasteland (if you're on the draw and know you're playing against a deck that has a lot of nonbasics)
- Strip Mine (always good)
- Welder, if you have a few Moxes to Weld out, and things in your hand you can cast the next turn (usually Smokestack)

If you're playing them:
- Chalice for 0 (on the play)

If your hand only plays mana and passes, or does something insigificant like play turn 1 Crucible that you plan to follow up with Welder, you need to ship it.

I am just quoting this because I am surprised someone might not know these rules of the deck. therefore....wow and QFT.
Against control sometimes you even want two viable threats within a turn. Something like turn one: play Chalice @0,, gets countered...play smokestack,etc. A prison deck isn't doing its job if it isn't playing a threat/lock piece.
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2006, 03:59:46 pm »


Clearly you weren't doing enough analysis and mulliganing correctly.  I find that I mulligan about 35-40% of the time with the deck. 

There was never a time where I wished I had mulliganed.  The draws I had all day were just amazing.  I say it requires great hands all the time because of the field I had to play against.  Fish is a tough match with 8 counters, monkey, and chalice and requires a pretty strong hand to beat.
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