Fake cards, chapter two

[Gabethebabe]

So I bougt myself an UNL Mox Jet and Ancestral from a 161 100% feedback dude on eBay

To find out they were fake.

Pretty good fakes. Never saw anything like that. They could fool you selling them on the street. But fake. They failed the light test and after that I also did the bend test and the ancestral creased before even completing the bend.

So I sent an e-mail to the seller. I was very polite, because he could be a victim as well.

Let´s see what happens

$716.01 is worth taking some actions ...

[orgcandman]

these are showing up more and more. in fact, a friend of mine purchased an ancestral that was almost 100% real (it also failed the light test)

What should we do? This rash of fake power will probably get worse. Should we just stop buying?

[Hi-Val]

Carry a flashlight? It's pretty easy to do the light test in person. As for online stuff, don't bid unless the seller guarantees a refund in the event of fake power, and ask them to take photos of the card during a light test (or even a short movie, most digital cameras can do that now).

[Lou]

I got burnt on a Lotus.  I didn't even know it was fake, then resold it to pay rent, and ended up losing $500.  The joys of Ebay.

[kirdape3]

This is why I won't buy power except from sources that I know to be legitimate.

[Gabethebabe]

clicky

[arj]

Excellent pictures! I justed check my power and it seemed ok.

I really hope you get your money back.

[Hi-Val]

Gabe, is your Ancestral that's fake really that much thinner? Usually stuff fails the light test when it is noticably darker, or you can see the glue used to seal the cards together. If you're buying power, have something Beta, even an Island, to light-test against. You'll instantly know if it's fake. A fake card will fail one of these tests:

1. Bend Test-- though a lot of people don't want you bending their cards.
2. Magnification Test-- look at it through a loupe. Look at the sides of the card. Look for the ink donuts on the face of the card.
3. Light Test-- use a high-power flashlight.

If it passes these tests as well as the obvious things such as whether it looks right, it's most likely real. That said, there are cards from Dark Beta that are fake but in a "kinda" way. A wotc employee printed sheets of power when they were printing The Dark. The employee was obv fired but some of the power got out. If you hold Dark Beta power next to real power, you'll see the difference in the coloration-- there's more cyan if I remember correctly. Dark Beta is really the only thing I think that would pass all three tests, because it is for all intents a "real" magic card.

[Gabethebabe]

Hmmm... interesting... I googled for the seller´s name and I found his name in a Rakso Article of the "you can play control bible" kind.

This means he actually knows about magic.

Hmmm, I see his name is a couple of old tourney reports on TMD as well.

Should I disclose his name and ask around if the dude is shady or should I wait for his reply to my e-mail?

[Yare]

That said, there are cards from Dark Beta that are fake but in a "kinda" way. A wotc employee printed sheets of power when they were printing The Dark. The employee was obv fired but some of the power got out. If you hold Dark Beta power next to real power, you'll see the difference in the coloration-- there's more cyan if I remember correctly. Dark Beta is really the only thing I think that would pass all three tests, because it is for all intents a "real" magic card.

For the ignorant, are such cards legal in sanctioned (or unsanctioned) play?

[Lou]

Hmmm... interesting... I googled for the seller´s name and I found his name in a Rakso Article of the "you can play control bible" kind.

This means he actually knows about magic.

Hmmm, I see his name is a couple of old tourney reports on TMD as well.

Should I disclose his name and ask around if the dude is shady or should I wait for his reply to my e-mail?

There is no question that those cards are fake.  I personally am curious as to who has these fakes, and where they are coming from.  I would divulge his name.  Frankly, and especially since I am not in on it, I think these fakes are horseshit and we need to ensure that nobody else gets burned.

[Yare]

There is no question that those cards are fake. I personally am curious as to who has these fakes, and where they are coming from. I would divulge his name. Frankly, and especially since I am not in on it, I think these fakes are horseshit and we need to ensure that nobody else gets burned.

Well, my question was asked under the presumption that someone from wizards printed the cards, which may imply that they are legal.  So what is that deal with these "Dark" cards?  Can someone explain the specifics?

[M.Solymossy]

Didn't a Carte Munde employee or whatever the name is print cards too, like power and duals and birds of paradise and the such?

[Hi-Val]

Yare, they're not legal because they are not recognized as official Magic cards by WOTC. 13NoVa, the cards you are referring to are the Dark Beta set.

[EnialisLiadon]

That's why I don't buy beta.

Anyways.  As a relative type 1 newb who proxies power and borrows Mana Drains, the prospect of buying power that might be fake scares me.  Perhaps when the time comes I'll see if I can borrow a big ass flashlight from someone on my school's tech crew.

Also, can you ask an ebay seller to perform the light test and take pictures?  Or would they get pissed at you?

[CrashTest]

I've asked eBay sellers to check their cards, and sometimes they are just plain rude because they think you are insulting their intelligence, even if you ask nicely. For example, one guy responded "I know what a real magic card is", and another said "I don't bend test my cards".

             The truth is that these are the same people who often can't tell if a card is fake. 

        I do not recommend against buying power on ebay, in fact I encourage wise purchases. That's where you can find the good deals. If you are careful and have backup plans (i.e a way to get a refund, and confidence you can find fakes) then you should be fine.

         

[Smmenen]

I am selling moxen on ebay right now - it helps to know someone you trust.  There are lots more fakes out there and knowing a trustworthy source is critical. 

[Samite Healer]

OK, EVERYBODY HOLD UP!

I actually KNOW the seller of these cards and we were discussing it together, while we were both on WoW of course , and he was concerned that he might be getting screwed by the buyer if they issue a chargeback.

1) While he is a very good Type 1 player, he is selling these cards for his friend, either Matt D'Avanzo or one of his other friends (but they all know each other).

2) I don't believe that any of them knew that they were fake because they were supposedly given out as prizes at one of four different places within the past 3 or 4 years.

3) I know for a fact that there is NO malicious intent on the part of the seller, because he is an upstanding guy and I hold him in high regard.

4) Gabethebabe - I am SURE that you are not doing anything malicious either

I am going to speak to my friend and try to get everything to go very smoothly for both of you.  He is a very reasonable guy, and I think that he was actually MORE concerned than you were because I told him that some buyer tried to screw ME out of a Mox Sapphire.

MSG me if you have any questions.

-Jeff

[Gabethebabe]

I am selling moxen on ebay right now - it helps to know someone you trust.  There are lots more fakes out there and knowing a trustworthy source is critical. 

"Hi!  I'm Stephen Menendian, featured writer for Starcitygames.com selling several additional Moxen I've won over the last year won.  This is a Mox Ruby and I have scanned the front and back for you to evaluate. 

Mox Ruby is one of the "power nine" - one of the most powerful magic card ever printed.  If you play Vintage, you need this card!

Good luck!"

Hehehe, modest as always.

PM-ed you Jeff

[seer]

Bend test doesn't mean much these days. Most fake cards can pass it.

[Gabethebabe]

Bend test doesn't mean much these days. Most fake cards can pass it.

Well, these didn´t.

[netherspirit]

I know this is probably straying away from the actual topic a bit, but ermm, does anyone know roughly what the value difference in the Dark Beta cards is and where you could get them from?

[Tha Gunslinga]

I know this is probably straying away from the actual topic a bit, but ermm, does anyone know roughly what the value difference in the Dark Beta cards is and where you could get them from?

From what I've heard, they're worth a fortune and are virtually impossible to find.

This is wrong, just fyi, folks.  Fakes are worthless.
--Slinga, many years later.

[Hi-Val]

I know this is probably straying away from the actual topic a bit, but ermm, does anyone know roughly what the value difference in the Dark Beta cards is and where you could get them from?

Dark Beta is worth on par with regular beta. I've only seen one Dark Beta card, a Lotus, and it was in a friend's collection and it wasn't going anywhere for shy of $900. The guy printed only a few sheets of these so they are on par with Summer Magic in terms of rarity.

[PacmanXSA]

A teamate of mine sold a minty dark beta Mox Pearl for roughly $800-$1000 or so to a huge dealer that was one of the only people to actually know what it was.  Most people just pulled it out and dismissed it as being fake.

If the dealer knows what he has (they most likely don't) they will probably sell on par.  I wouldn't part with one for less than double market value on a regular one.

Pac

[Gabethebabe]

I´m still waiting for the address of Jeff (Samite Healer) to send the fake cards to. That is, if he accepts to be third pàrty between me and the eBay seller.

Jeff!! Please respond to my pm!

EDIT: I´ve added some detailed scans of the fake Ancestral and Jet, together with a real one. HERE

[Auracon]

Well, I tried the light test on my moxen and all is well. I hope Gabethebabe's deal works out in the end.

I do have some questions however. How does one recognize dark beta and summer magic (other than the obvious blue hurricane, and mistitled artists)? I personally can't tell most summer magic cards form normal revised.

As for ebay sellers: I recently bought another mox (couldn't resist the deal), and had the seller send me a picture of the card with a flashlight behind it. The seller was quite puzzled at first, but was very polite and once I explained how the light test worked quickly complied and sent the pics. I think this should work with most sellers. Just remember to be polite and explain what the light test is for.

[pyr0ma5ta]

Summer Magic has "copyright 1994" on the bottom.  Can't miss it.