One-drop cycle

[Mindstab_Thrull]

As per what I said in http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=28179.0, here's the one-drop cycle that I was looking at, as 'originally' designed:

B
Creature - Horror
0/0
As an additional cost to play ~, you may pay 3 life X times.
~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it.
~ has first strike and trample as long as it has any +1/+1 counters on it.

U
Creature - Illusion
0/0
As an additional cost to play ~, you may discard X cards.
~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it.
~ is unblockable and has flying as long as it has any +1/+1 counters on it.

R
Creature - Elemental
0/0
As an additional cost to play ~, you may remove the top seven cards of your library from the game X times.
~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it.
~ has double strike and haste as long as it has any number of +1/+1 counters on it.

G
Creature - Beast
1/1
As ~ comes into play, choose target opponent.
At the beginning of the chosen player's upkeep, you may put a +1/+1 counter on ~. If you do, skip your next turn.
~ has 'Tap: Add X mana of any colour to your mana pool, where X is ~'s power' as long as it has any +1/+1 counters on it.

W
Creature - Dragon
1/1
As ~ comes into play, choose target opponent.
At the beginning of the chosen player's upkeep, you may put a +1/+1 counter on ~. If you do, skip your next untap step.
~ has vigilance and 'Sacrifice a plains: Prevent the next 2 damage that would be dealt to target creature or player this turn' as long as it has any +1/+1 counters on it.

1
Creature - Myr
0/0
As an additional cost to play ~, you may sacrifice X permanents.
~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it.
~ is indestructible as long as it has any +1/+1 counters on it.

I had originally worded the white one to operate differently by letting you skip untap steps as a cost, but then I realized that it ran into the Time Vault issue. That's why I made the green and white ones the way I did - a player only has so many resources that aren't in play to sacrifice

[LordHomerCat]

Dragons don't come as 1/1's, and also are very very rarely white (almost all are red or blue).

Also, the red card is so insane its not even funny.  First turn 5/5 haste doublestriker for R with no drawback?  How good.  You have to pay an actual resource, cards in library don't count.  Life, cards in hand, permanents, turns, etc. all work because they actually affect the game.  If I win the game on the second turn, who cards if there are only 15 cards left in my library?

I'm not entirely sure about the others, although the green one seems really awkward and terrible.  Skipping turns so i can "accelerate" my mana?  Why don't I just take the turn normally and play a land?  Compare this to something like Rofellos on the high end, or even a Bird or Elf, who actually accelerates you, instead of putting you way behind.

[asmoranomardicodais]

The problem with all of these but MAYBE the white and green is that these simply are not effects that should cost one mana, ever. White is the only color that is allowed 2/2's for one, and these not only let you get 2/2's, but 5/5's with amazing abilities. Look at the blue one, for one mana, and discarding your hand, you get a 6/6 unblockable first turn. That is insane. The same goes for the red one.

The problem with these cards is that you want them to be pumpable to a huge degree when you play them. These all should cost about 4cc, and even then the green and white would be horrible, and the red one would be overpowered.

[Mindstab_Thrull]

LordHomerCat:

- I agree they're almost never 1/1's ([card]Nalathni Dragon[/card] comes to mind..) and nearly never White, but I couldn't come up with another good creature type that would describe a good-sized beater creature that whie would get. Angels tend to either be smaller or with a higher toughness, rarely if ever 4/4 or higher (Serra and legendary ones notwithstanding). That's a minor glitch though, and I just didn't want to repeat a creature type in the cycle. The Artifact one should be a Golem, on afterthought.

- The problem I was having building this cycle was by the time I did two (black and blue), I ran into problems, because I wanted the way to beef them up to be a 'resource' that wasn't in play. The Artifact one is the only one that breaks this rule. The only other 'resources' available are your library, graveyard, time, and your opponent (life and cards in hand already having been used up by then). Sacrificing Time felt Green, so it was made that way, but then had to be made a 1/1 so it could live until the opponent's upkeep. Don't forget that the creature also grows in size as well as being able to produce mana; compare [card]Skyshroud Troopers[/card]. Yes it (essentially) gives all your creatures Defender, but Green also has enough ways to drop creatures, lands, and get untap steps on other people's turn. Obviously this is more a niche card than the others, but it's also bigger than the others at the start (as creatures tend to be).

asmoranomardicodais:

- Yes I do, actually. I want them specifically to be playable turn 1, and it's hard to build them that way and have them balanced, without requiring something else on the board first. I guess the Red one could have an additional line: 'An opponent gains control of ~ at end of turn' or something like that - so it bounces back and forth between you and another player. And I *do* realize how big they get; the black, blue, and red ones all top out (under normal circumstances) at around 6/6 or 7/7, no bigger.

So how else should they be balanced with that low a cost, without having to have anything else in play to use them?

[Godder]

It's a requirement that Angels fly, and the recent ones have P+T=6+. Small Angels, like the Voices, are now considered mistakes, because they are too small. If you're looking for a White creature with unknown characteristics, a knight or soldier is a better choice than a Dragon.

That piece of flavour aside, most of these are insanely good, particularly the Red one. I'd happily mulligan until I had one and then remove 42 or 49 cards from my deck so I could win on turn two. Also, the abilities on the creatures are a little off the modern trends, and the additional costs need work. Following, then, are my suggestions to try to fix these, although that may be difficult, given that artifacts and Blue really shouldn't get good cheap creatures, and Red and Black should have unpleasant side effects for their cheap creatures. I also highly suggest just giving the creatures the desired abilities (fewer of them, though), rather than bothering with any "if this has any +1/+1 counters" conditions.


Creature - Horror
0/0
As an additional cost to play ~, you may pay 4 life X times.
~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it.
Pay 4 life: Regenerate ~this~. (First Strike and Trample aren't common Black abilities, and this has an interesting tension with the pay life effect)


Creature - Illusion
0/0
Flying
As an additional cost to play ~, you may remove the top 20 cards in your library from the game X times. (Getting this right is tough, but Blue should have a really heavy drawback on a good early creature, so 20 seemed sufficiently unpleasant)
~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it.


Creature - Elemental
0/0
Haste (Fairly costing a double striker at 1 mana is nearly impossible - it'll either be too good or unplayable)
As an additional cost to play ~, you may discard X cards at random from your hand.
~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it.


Creature - Beast
0/0
Trample
~ comes into play with any number of +1/+1 counters on it.
When ~ comes into play, choose an opponent. He or she may search his or her library for X basic lands and put them into play tapped, where X is equal to the number of +1/+1 counters on ~. (This seems more Green, and kinda simulates skipping turns, but without the pesky card advantage, but it also needs something about them shuffling their library if they do, although I'm not entirely sure how to template it.)


Creature - Knight
0/0
Vigilance
As ~ comes into play, you may have an opponent gain 5 life X times. If you do, ~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it. (This could also be the Green 'drawback', but then it's hard to come up with a likely White drawback).


Creature - Myr
0/0
Indestructible
As an additional cost to play ~, you may sacrifice X artifacts. (Seems more in flavour, and since it's harder to do, allows making the card better than it otherwise should be - artifact creatures shouldn't be better than Blue would get at this cost)
~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it.

[Mindstab_Thrull]

Nice cycle, but I really feel the blue one is too weak. Even for a Flying Men you lose 20 cards off your library. Yes I know Flying men is considered 'powerful' for Blue these days but it just seems like too much for a relatively small effect. That's why for red I went with removing 7 cards - what about ten?
For the black card, I still feel four life is it a bit much, but it makes it more on par with the remaining cards. And I know fs and trample aren't common for black.. but just HAVE to show up on more than Ebon Praetor and Akroma How about:

B
Creature - Horror
0/0
As an additional cost to play ~, you may pay 4 life X times.
~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it.
Trample
B, Pay 2 life: Target player discards a card. Play this ability as a sorcery, and only once each turn.

U
.. drop the mill cost to ten cards, perhaps?

R
What about:
Double strike (instead of haste)
~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters and deals X damage to you.

G
Can be given Regeneration instead easily, or the ability to block flyers.

W
Five life seems a bit much. What about allowing them to untap X permanents?

And the artifact I'm going to make into a Golem

[Joblin Velder]

That new red one is insane. I'd totally take ten to the head to swing for twenty on the second turn.

[LordHomerCat]

If we let them untap X permanents, Im gonna let them untap 20 every time (unless its targeted or something).

Remember, 1 drops should not be insane.  Look at frickin Isamaru.  He's a legendary 2/2, and he gets played in like every format as the premier 1 drop beater.

Why would the black one get a discard ability too?  With no tap cost?  Thats insane.

If you only mill 10 cards, you have a 4/4 flyer for U.  That is patently ridiculous.  Even if you only remove 20 cards, thats basically no drawback at all (you dont play 1-drop creatures in combo decks) and you get a more powerful 1 drop beater than ANYTHING EVER PRINTED.  This whole cycle needs to get toned way down, as you don't seem to grasp just how insane these cards would be =/

[Matt]

Generally speaking, don't even try to make cards for type one. They're incredibly hard to do without being ludicrously broken.

[Mindstab_Thrull]

LHC: White - I *had* planned on having them untap X target permanents they control (not just X permanents, period). As for the Red one, I think I might have an answer to how to 'fix' it. Try this one on for size:


R
Creature - Elemental
0/0
As an additional cost to play ~, you may discard X cards at random from your hand.
Haste, double strike
~ comes into play with X +1/+1 counters on it.
When ~ comes into play, it deals 2 damage to you for each counter on it.
Whenever ~ is dealt damage, it deals twice that much damage to you.

Better? As for the Blue one - what if it became a personal Nether Void effect as well? ie, 'Spells you play cost an additional 1 to play for each counter on ~.'

[asmoranomardicodais]

But the problem is that your giving all colors 2 power or more in a one drop. No color, besides white, whould ever get a one drop with 2 power. 3 and 4 is just out of the question. If you like these ideas, they'd simply have to cost more, because no cards are allowed to break that rule (except spark elemantal, but its not really a creature)

[dandan]

Of course you could make one drops that are 0/0, 0/1 or 1/1 that may have 2 (or even more) power given the right circumstances. The following are just examples of that train of thought:


~This~ gets +1/+0 when attacking an opponent with at least 10 less life than its controller
1/1
(like Lurking cards but more Red in flavour)


Remove a creature card from your graveyard from the game: ~this~ gets +1/+0 until end of turn
1/1 or 0/1
(Baby Eater of the Dead/Goyf/Tog)


Already got such stuff but how about?
1/1 Trainee Officer
If you control another White creature with First Strike ~this has First Strike. Ditto for Double Strike, Banding ad Protection (yes, I know Flying should be in there according to White's colour pie but I'm not convinced Flying is something you can easily learn, at least not in my personal experience)


1/1
If another creature you control increases in power and/or toughness this turn, ~this~ also gains that increase in power/toughness
Never expand your neck at a bullfrog

Familiar Thought

Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may remove a card in your hand from the game. If you do, this gets +1/+0 and target opponent may play that card as if it were in his/her hand.
0/1

[The Witch-King]

The red, white and black ones look ok to me.

But the blue one seems a bit to bad.. but then again increasing its basepower isnt really an option as mentioned before. So maybe we could come up with another drawback. Maybe remove the top X cards from the game, this gets +1/+0 until end of turn, with X yet to be dertermined.

Then again the green one might be to powerfull, giant growths giving 6 or more power for 1 mana seems kinda good. How about the land search idea on this one, let them search a land for each +1/+0, but then you will get the problem that it should have a maximum amount of times it can be activated per turn, else this would insta-kill if unblocked.

What do you guys think about it?

[dandan]

I guess the Blue one could be a base 1/1 as it is a hell of a drawback (potentially 2 cards/turn).

I think the Green one would be very very good on occasion but never quite work as well as you'd think it should. Kind of like Berserk. Put another way - if you have a bunch of creatures and creature pumpers and an opponent that isn't packing creature kill/creature stealing/creature stall/silly combo, you are likely to win anyway.It is likely to be a 1/1 dork most of the time. I guess it could just get power increases as even a frog with a big throat gets squished by a boot.

My main point was that each colour could have X>1/y creatures for 1 mana if the circumstances are right (and in flavour for that colour)

[orgcandman]

don't make the blue one a you may ability. As-is, if you up the base power, he becomes a flying man, and can actually pump (better than flying man). If you make it a 2/1 that forces you to remove a card, it's more in-flavor for flying blue savannah lions.

-Aaron

[dandan]

No problem. Make him a 1/1 dork that gains Flying and +1/0 when you RFG the card.